Catalonia v Scotland

[ForeverSinging]

Spent 2 months in Barcelona and they will overwhelmingly vote yes.

It's a different situation there. The Spanish government is much less adept at arguing for them to stay as part of Spain. The main argument is that Catalonia's cultures and traditions are not protected as part of Spain and as far as I can see there was no challenge to that.

It's unconstitutional but that won't make a difference if there's enough demand. 2 million Catalans lined the streets of Barcelona only a couple of weeks ago.

[madwullie]

The languages are a lot more than just Spanish with different spellings. Catalan in some aspects is actually closer related to both Italian and French, and Galician is essentially a dialect of Portuguese.

I was being a wee bit facetious when talking about the spelling to be fair. Don't know much about catalan, but have seen a fair bit of galician and whatever language it is they use in the south east and I had no problem understanding them at all (I'm only meaning reading here).

I do have difficulty understanding written Portugese though, but it was my understanding that Galician was more like a cross between Portugese and Spanish - that's how a Galician described it to me anyway

[Dunning1874]

In addition to the heightened cultural and language differences, Catalonians were oppressed by an authoritarian government in living memory, so for those who lived under Franco it's obviously a much more extreme state of affairs than any of our electorate have ever had in the Union.

[bendan]

The Civil war is a fair point. As is i guess that the wealth differential with the rest of Spain is so marked that no one doubts the financial reasons for secession.

I'd be fascinated to see how a UDI worked out for them.

Yeah, civil war, language and the fact they are quite obviously net contributors to Spain financially. They have tended not to be recognized internationally in the same way Scotland has been as well, so maybe there is more frustration with that.

[Booker-T]

I was being a wee bit facetious when talking about the spelling to be fair. Don't know much about catalan, but have seen a fair bit of galician and whatever language it is they use in the south east and I had no problem understanding them at all (I'm only meaning reading here).

I do have difficulty understanding written Portugese though, but it was my understanding that Galician was more like a cross between Portugese and Spanish - that's how a Galician described it to me anyway

The speak Galician in the North West.

What you are taliking about is Andalucian interpretation of the Castilian language. As far as southern spaniards are concerned, their language is b*****dised in madrid as it's under influence from other languages. They claim to speak real spanish in the south of spain.

[madwullie]

The speak Galician in the North West.

What you are taliking about is Andalucian interpretation of the Castilian language. As far as southern spaniards are concerned, their language is b*****dised in madrid as it's under influence from other languages. They claim to speak real spanish in the south of spain.

Yeah I know where Galicia is, I was talking about two separate languages in that sentence.

[andrew1903]

Something that's interested me is the difference here.

I don't think anyone doubts that if they ever voted on it for real the Catalans would overwhelmingly vote to leave Spain.

Spain being as it is they will nit get the kind of democratic opportunity we did here. And yet we completely rejected secession in huge numbers.

So why is this? Is it because the Catalans have a poorer deal vis a vis Madrid than we do Westminster ? Are they more insular and parochial ? More fleg waving Nationalists of an ethnic variety?

A few years ago support for Catalonia independence was relatively small. It's picked up recently because Catalonia is a good bit richer than the rest of Spain. That's also the problem with Scottish independence - Scotland is neither much richer than the rUK or treated badly compared to the rUK. Because Scotland is in that midpoint its a much bigger struggle to galvanise support for independence.

[ScotlandGer]

I'd agree with quite a few points above.

Language being an important factor, legacy of dictatorship, and the wealth of Catalonia during a time of a struggling Spanish economy.

I would add in an independent media. Television, newspapers, and radio all have independent Catalan titles and programmes easily accessible and popular.

The political parties, too, are very different from here. There are two mainstream 'nationalist' parties, plus the state-wide parties are largely independent from their Spanish counterparts (People's Party excluded who are quite centralised across Spain).

[Ad Lib]

The Spanish Constitution prohibits referendums on secession initiated by the Parliaments of autonomous communities. The Catalonian declaration of sovereignty was even struck down by the Constitutional Court a while back.

The contrasting approaches of the central governments of the UK and Spain could scarcely be starker.

[John Lambies Doos]

Catalonia will vote Yes, they are not shitebags

As for currency, they will work that out in negotiations after vote, just like scotland could have done. Like I said they are not shitebags

[jmothecat]

To be fair I'd vote Yes to Scottish independence from Spain.

[Ad Lib]

The currency question would be interesting for Catalonia. They'd probably have to start their own because I can see the Eurozone making extraordinary arrangements unanimously to authorise immediate Euro use.

[Disco Dave]

The currency question would be interesting for Catalonia. They'd probably have to start their own because I can see the Eurozone making extraordinary arrangements unanimously to authorise immediate Euro use.

There must be some old Pesetas in a box somewhere.