Casual Bystander Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The following are a list of modern countries that have gained independence from Westminster control: United States Australia Canada New Zealand India Pakistan Israel South Africa Ireland Egypt Nigeria Cyprus Jordan Sri Lanka Ghana Kuwait Malaysia Tuvalu Kiribati Myanmar (Burma) Tanzania Jamaica Malawi Saint Lucia Vanuatu Zimbabwe Uganda Iraq Trinidad and Tobago Malta Sierra Leone Barbados Lesotho Botswana The Gambia Maldives Kenya Grenada Sudan (South Sudan) Samoa Zambia Guyana Yemen Fiji Papa New Guinea United Arab Emirates Swaziland Solomon Islands Bahrain Qatar Mauritius Nauru Swaziland Bahamas Seychelles Dominica Antigua and Barbuda Belize Saint Kitts and Nevis Brunei This is the list of those who have asked to return to UK rule: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Yeah, Zimbabwe are a wonderful country to try and emulate. The list proves very little as some have been a resounding success while some are utter basket cases, with even more somewhere in between and trundling along nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Yeah, Zimbabwe are a wonderful country to try and emulate. The list proves very little as some have been a resounding success while some are utter basket cases, with even more somewhere in between and trundling along nicely. The point is not one of them would give it up to be under UK rule again. Not surprised you completely missed that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Yeah, Zimbabwe are a wonderful country to try and emulate. The list proves very little as some have been a resounding success while some are utter basket cases, with even more somewhere in between and trundling along nicely. Don't worry, you don't need to answer the question, just pick out the one which has suffered the worst and use it as a shitty stick and wave it about. Answer the question are these countries wrong? If they are why have non made any attempt to establish Westminster rule over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The point is not one of them would give it up to be under UK rule again. Not surprised you completely missed that though. dont thik the zimbabwean people have much of a choice of anything politically really to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The point is not one of them would give it up to be under UK rule again. Not surprised you completely missed that though. I didn't miss anything, either partially or completely. You should go back to the ugly face avatar - it matched your personality. Don't worry, you don't need to answer the question, just pick out the one which has suffered the worst and use it as a shitty stick and wave it about. Answer the question are these countries wrong? If they are why have non made any attempt to establish Westminster rule over them. It has suffered because of it's racist despotic leader and I suspect many there would take a return rather than continued starvation under him; in fact my Zimbabwean staff in Saudi said as much back in the early 1990's. I don't think Mugabe even let's opponents vote without harassment never mind suggest secession? However, the vast majority were right to go it alone because that is what their people wanted and, as stated in the previous post, they have done so with varying degrees of success. That was my point, and it wasn't made to gainsay yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The only one comparable is Ireland really as the rest left an old outdated Empire as opposed to a modern day Union. That's not to say that there isn't problems within said modern day Union of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 It has suffered because of it's racist despotic leader and I suspect many there would take a return rather than continued starvation under him; in fact my Zimbabwean staff in Saudi said as much back in the early 1990's. I don't think Mugabe even let's opponents vote without harassment never mind suggest secession? So one country, one that has no relation to Scotland, politically, emotionally, socially, culturally and democratically is the one that we should use as a model? The vast, overwhelming majority of these countries have gone on to flourish as independent sovereign states. Yet Zimbabwe is the one that needs to be centred on? This underlines perfectly the loyalist attitude towards this debate, find the worst possible case scenario and peddle that as what will happen to Scotland. This sorts of negativity is why No will lose this referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Fine, let's use Ireland as the example then. I agree that they're the best comparison, considering a whole range of factors. Were they correct to leave? Yes. Is anyone wanting back in? Absolutely not. Alrighty then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 So one country, one that has no relation to Scotland, politically, emotionally, socially, culturally and democratically is the one that we should use as a model? The vast, overwhelming majority of these countries have gone on to flourish as independent sovereign states. Yet Zimbabwe is the one that needs to be centred on? This underlines perfectly the loyalist attitude towards this debate, find the worst possible case scenario and peddle that as what will happen to Scotland. This sorts of negativity is why No will lose this referendum. I picked it out specifically to show the pointlessness of using them ALL as an example when there have been such diverse fortunes for all of those listed. You used it as one of many models, and most have "no relation to Scotland, politically, emotionally, socially, culturally and democratically". Please show me where I said Scotland would suffer the same fate as Zimbabwe? Ireland is the most sensible/logical comparison, both for size and geographical region. Why does asking questions or querying points make me a loyalist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I didn't miss anything, either partially or completely. You should go back to the ugly face avatar - it matched your personality. It has suffered because of it's racist despotic leader and I suspect many there would take a return rather than continued starvation under him; in fact my Zimbabwean staff in Saudi said as much back in the early 1990's. I don't think Mugabe even let's opponents vote without harassment never mind suggest secession? However, the vast majority were right to go it alone because that is what their people wanted and, as stated in the previous post, they have done so with varying degrees of success. That was my point, and it wasn't made to gainsay yours. ^^^Seething Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Yeah, Zimbabwe are a wonderful country to try and emulate... You could have pointed out that your wee country asked to get back in after one day in the Free State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Fine, let's use Ireland as the example then. I agree that they're the best comparison, considering a whole range of factors. Were they correct to leave? Yes. Is anyone wanting back in? Absolutely not. Alrighty then. Calm down Sodje! I was merely pointing out an obvious flaw in the OP, not championing the No vote. It's bullshit like this that has blighted both sides of the Campaigns in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Why does asking questions or querying points make me a loyalist? Loyal is described as "giving or showing firm and constant support or allegiance to a person or institution." You wish to remain loyal to the union. You are a loyalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Calm down Sodje! I was merely pointing out an obvious flaw in the OP, not championing the No vote. Obvious flaw? Deary me, by pointing out that many countries have left control from Westminster and not returned? You Sir, are an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Obvious flaw? Deary me, by pointing out that many countries have left control from Westminster and not returned? You Sir, are an idiot. Are you honestly comparing the way Nations of the British Empire were Governed to how Scotland (via Westminster) has been?! Scots and Scotland played a major part in building that Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Calm down Sodje! I was merely pointing out an obvious flaw in the OP, not championing the No vote. It's bullshit like this that has blighted both sides of the Campaigns in my opinion. "Calm down?" Whit. I wasn't being sarcastic, the Republic of Ireland really is one of the best comparisons we can look to. I wouldn't choose to do things the way they've done it by any means, but they were absolutely correct to claim Independence and I think we should do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 What an utterly ridiculous thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 What an utterly ridiculous thread. Ah, nothing to actually counter the point made, just a dismissal. You are the perfect example of those who don't live in the country and don't have a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 "Calm down?" Whit. I wasn't being sarcastic, the Republic of Ireland really is one of the best comparisons we can look to. I wouldn't choose to do things the way they've done it by any means, but they were absolutely correct to claim Independence and I think we should do the same. In what way? giving up their own currency for the Euro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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