Granny Danger Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The daft thread posted the early hours of this morning has prompted me to say this. Read or don't read it as you wish. Despite all the claims of narrow nationalism I can't say I've seen that as being particularly prominent in this debate. Certainly you'll have a few tartan and shortbread "wae's like us" types and an even smaller subset of a English haters; but they're a minuscule minority. The fact that we are showing at around 50% is not due to nationalism but is due to the vast swell of former Labour voters now supporting the YES campaign. This is in addition to the growing ranks who over the last decade or so deserted Labour to support the SNP, at least in Scottish Parliamentary elections. Again it is only the nutcase element that says a NO voter is a traitor or is not a patriot; despite snide remarks to the contrary that has never been the position of the YES campaign. I don't think NO voters are traitors or are any less patriotic than me, in fact I don't consider myself particularly nationalistic. What does sadden me however is that there are people who seem to lack the self belief that we can look after our own affairs. The ones who continually bang on about Salmond are the worst example of that. Maybe they find it easier to attack Salmond than to face the issue of their own beliefs in their own abilities. This is not an election about Alex Salmond or the SNP it is about our willingness and ability to govern our own affairs. I think we as a people are capable of doing this and I sincerely hope we get the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 f**k all this patriotism, nationalism, proud to be British/Scottish shite - it's not about that, and it never has been - just vote YES, so that the people in this country are able to vote in the government they want, and vote out governments that are unsatisfactory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The amount of labels pinned on no voters, such as traitors, nawbags,shitebags, scotland haters etc on P&B are certainly not miniscule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 This. It's never been about Salmond or anti-English xenophobia for the vast majority of us, just the belief that we're ready and able to take our place among the other nations of the world. Half the country is going to be disappointed come Friday, but we’re going to have to continue to live with the other half. Everybody’s got their vote, and will use it the way they see fit. Both sides are just voting for what they genuinely see as the best option, and although we might disagree vehemently the bottom line is both sides are going to have to live with the result and make the best of it either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The amount of labels pinned on no voters, such as traitors, nawbags,shitebags, scotland haters etc on P&B are certainly not miniscule. Its overwhelmingly the majority view on P&B of those supporting Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Its overwhelmingly the majority view on P&B of those supporting Yes. I have never seen any person labelled a traitor, shitebag or Scotland Traitor on here, maybe I missed it but I don't think I would have missed a majority of people saying it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 The amount of labels pinned on no voters, such as traitors, nawbags,shitebags, scotland haters etc on P&B are certainly not miniscule. Maybe you can highlight a few, it shouldn't be too difficult if there's as many as you claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The amount of labels pinned on no voters, such as traitors, nawbags,shitebags, scotland haters etc on P&B are certainly not miniscule. Its overwhelmingly the majority view on P&B of those supporting Yes. I don't think it is the overwhelming view of Yessers - it just appears like it, as it is the posts that bandy about words like "traitor", "quisling" & co that tend to stick in the memory. Some of the Noers aren't a lot better, but there aren't as many of them, and their insults don't carry as much venom, usually along the lines of "moron", anybody who gets annoyed by that is a wee bit over sensitive, I feel. Some of the posts are definitely verging on the "drive them out, these unScots" type hysteria. As I've posted before, I hope the debate elsewhere isn't of the calibre of the P&B threads, I just wish the Referendum was over, and I haven't been involved in it, other than dipping in and out of this sub-forum. Granny Danger posted a thoughtful post above, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 f**k all this patriotism, nationalism, proud to be British/Scottish shite - it's not about that, and it never has been - just vote YES, so that the people in this country are able to vote in the government they want, and vote out governments that are unsatisfactory. Probably the biggest single reason why I'll be voting Yes will be for democratic reasons. It's not only the parliament that gains power through independence, I gain power through the increased power of my vote. I realise there are a whole host of reasons why people will vote yes or no but for me this is really the crux of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think it's the hypocrisy that gets me. The kind of people that will be voting No are the kind that boast about turning up in a See You Jimmy hat and kilt at Hampden for Scotland internationals but when it comes to actually making Scotland a better country, when overwhelming evidence suggests it will be much better than what we currently have, they're going to completely bottle it. They are also the type of people who you know will have a good bitch and moan about the next crippling austerity cuts and welfare reforms made by Westminster after a No vote. Some of them need to fucking grow up tbh. This "we cannae survive" attitude is utterly pathetic and would be laughed at in other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Probably the biggest single reason why I'll be voting Yes will be for democratic reasons. It's not only the parliament that gains power through independence, I gain power through the increased power of my vote. I realise there are a whole host of reasons why people will vote yes or no but for me this is really the crux of the debate. This is exactly where I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 No matter what happens we are going to need to take this political passion that has been built up recently to pull together as a country to hold accountable either Scottish politicians or both Scottish & Westminster politicians for whatever actions going forward. If we can keep the buzz going then we wont be silenced again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think it's the hypocrisy that gets me. The kind of people that will be voting No are the kind that boast about turning up in a See You Jimmy hat and kilt at Hampden for Scotland internationals but when it comes to actually making Scotland a better country, when overwhelming evidence suggests it will be much better than what we currently have, they're going to completely bottle it. They are also the type of people who you know will have a good bitch and moan about the next crippling austerity cuts and welfare reforms made by Westminster after a No vote. Some of them need to fucking grow up tbh. This "we cannae survive" attitude is utterly pathetic and would be laughed at in other countries. Where's the evidence that voting for independence will make a better Scotland? Also I have as much right to turn up at Scotland games supporting Scotland as you have. The irony of this post is that you don't even allow for a contrary opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The thread started so well too....................................... I hate anyone who has an opinion that does not allow or respect a contrary opinion. Granny Danger made a very eloquent opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Where's the evidence that voting for independence will make a better Scotland? Are you actually having a laugh? Scotland GDP p/capita = $47,369 Germany GDP p/capita = $43,855 UK GDP p/capita = $41,066 New Zealand GDP p/capita =$39,840 1% of the population of the EU 60% of the oil reserves of the EU 25% of the fish stocks of the EU 20% of the renewable energy of the EU Then factor in a few savings: Plus the wonderful people who live here: Getting the picture yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Are you actually having a laugh? Scotland GDP p/capita = $47,369 Germany GDP p/capita = $43,855 UK GDP p/capita = $41,066 New Zealand GDP p/capita =$39,840 1% of the population of the EU 60% of the oil reserves of the EU 25% of the fish stocks of the EU 20% of the renewable energy of the EU Then factor in a few savings: Plus the wonderful people who live here: Getting the picture yet? In what way is the above evidence when it excludes what's given to us. If these projections included what will be lost during the "negotiations" then I'd be interested in it. Also, what has a photo of a crowd of Yes supporters got to do with presenting your case? I think when you stop insulting people, the substance of your arguments are inconsequential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 In what way is the above evidence when it excludes what's given to us. If these projections included what will be lost during the "negotiations" then I'd be interested in it. Also, what has a photo of a crowd of Yes supporters got to do with presenting your case? I think when you stop insulting people, the substance of your arguments are inconsequential. Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Oh dear. Thanks for proving my point hen.........there's a decent egg pun thread going so this belongs there...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Getting the picture yet? Shenanigans.........that picture is clearly photoshopped. Text with a gradient effect box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KR88 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 And that is photoshopped.. I was in Glasgow and yes there were a lot of yes surporters, but many no supporters as well, and normally day to day people out shopping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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