Better Together's Darling and Brown destroyed British finances

[Zetterlund]

I would suggest that the countries that forced their banks to keep adequate reserves at the expense of profit. Unsurprisingly, coutries with large resource based economies such as Canada and Australia did well with the latter not even have a recession.

Countries who didn't have chancellors who said things like this:

Gordon Brown - 2006 said

I fear that much of this regulation has been burdensome

[Casual Bystander]

Who were the people that saw it coming?

You seem to be missing the point. Brown and Darling were unable to predict a massive financial crisis, yet somehow seem utterly confident that a financial crisis will happen in a independent Scotland? Do you trust them?

I don't know how old you are, but in the mid 2000s there were many people, just average people on the street like you and I, asking, "if there is what seems to be infinite credit, who ends up paying the bills", to which the politicians simply said, "hush man, we are experts here, it's all gravy".

[strichener]

Also countries where mortgages were not granted on a self certified income.

[The_BullyWee]

Was Salmond not someone who was also in favour of light touch regulation before the financial crash?

[Anonapersona]

Ah yes two politicians who didn't do their jobs well in that respect.

However here's a current one..........

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/216725-salmonds-support-for-fred-goodwins-actions/

Still no answer or response and a thread which does what exactly?

Your obsession with Salmond isn't doing you any favors because it shows a lack of understanding about the referendum.

It's also starting to be a little disturbing.

[Hedgecutter]

Both Brown & Darling were Scottish so it they can near-ruin a large nation like the UK then imagine what other Scots would do to a smaller country etc etc etc. not to mention budgeting for Holyrood and the Edinburgh trams.

I've heard this as a genuine cause to vote No. Scottish people are just useless and shouldn't be trusted with anything by themselves apparently.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

I'm still a bit hazy about the banking crisis - iirc in a nutshell was it that they were all packaging up (bad) mortgage debt and selling it to each other, then eventually realised that this was absolutely batshit insane because of how effortlessly they were all giving out loans to people that couldn't afford to pay them back? Then it all burst when banks realised how much sub-prime lending was going on, refused to buy the debt off each other, leaving them saddled with it?

Someone said to me the other day that of £26 billion given to the banks as part of the bailout (might have been RBS, more specifically) they took £25 billion of that, bought government gilts which the government then has to pay interest on (!) and paid themselves £1 billion in bonuses. One bank was giving out mortgages at 125% of the value of properties as well. Mental. Same guy says Clydesdale were the only bank that weren't selling on mortgage debts, which is apparently still a source of great pride to them.

I'm incredibly sceptical listening to anything banks come out with on independence because of the above, incidentally.

[Casual Bystander]

Was Salmond not someone who was also in favour of light touch regulation before the financial crash?

Once more you try to shift the focus away from Brown and Darlings actions. Why is that?

[Well Well]

Who were the people that saw it coming?

Chris Wood's stock has risen still further, largely as a result of his forecast in October 2005 which said baldly: "Investors should sell all exposure to the American mortgage securities market." A year before HSBC issued its first profit warning on the back of its exposure to US home-loan defaults, Wood had spotted stress fractures in the system which, during the past three months, have become fissures.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/2816256/Chris-Wood-the-man-who-predicted-the-subprime-crisis.html

also

http://nypost.com/2007/09/17/lone-voice-warned-of-subprime-mess/

Jesus, even Adam Smith in the 'Wealth of Nations' warned against it

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/04/adam-smith-warned-against-subprime.html

[FrontPage]

Too often Yes campaigners call out those anti-Salmond ;ot for making the referendum about him.

On the flip side, this referendum isnt about the Labour party or Brown either.

[Casual Bystander]

On the flip side, this referendum isnt about the Labour party or Brown either.

So the the Better Together campaign has nothing to do with the Better Together leader Alistair Darling? Seems a bit of an odd stance.

[FrontPage]

It has nothing to do with any one politicians and it has nothign to do with political parties.

[Casual Bystander]

It has nothing to do with any one politicians and it has nothign to do with political parties.

Well you can try and deflect away from the actual point of the thread, but people know the truth.

[cracowjambo]

So the the Better Together campaign has nothing to do with the Better Together leader Alistair Darling? Seems a bit of an odd stance.

That would explain why it's been such a poor show from the bitters.

[Granny Danger]

Too often Yes campaigners call out those anti-Salmond ;ot for making the referendum about him.

On the flip side, this referendum isnt about the Labour party or Brown either.

That's fair. On one hand we have a chance to vote for a new way of doing things in an independent Scotland which, by definition, will see a proliferation of new political parties. If people still want to vote SNP in a post independent Scotland they will have that choice. Personally I think the SNP will find it difficult to be all things to all people and there will be a fragmentation, definitely partial, possibly total.

One of the things I sincerely hope in such a situation is that people who were not previously politically active and who have been galvanised by this campaign will be involved in any new politics.

On the other hand, if it's a NO vote, it will be the same old faces in the same old structures. If people are genuinely happy with the Conservative and Labour politicians then that's fine, but the popularity ratings for Milliband and Cameron across the political spectrum of Scotland suggest that folk aren't happy.

[hirop]

i get a sick-feeling in my throat when I hear about brown and darling "saving the banks." worse when it comes from them, brown esepcially, as it has been so ably pointed out his light-touch regulation was at the very core of turning London into global center of financial skullduggery. performance of US sub-prime loan was the catalyst for the liquidity squeeze that became better known as the credit crunch, but the packaging and selling of those loans into MBS went through London in some cases, and it wasn't because those organizations liked jellied eels - they wanted to operate under that regulatory framework. See AIG.on this link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/3225213/AIG-trail-leads-to-London-casino.html

[Casual Bystander]

Gordon Brown is now claiming that SNP are liars. I ask you once more, read the first post, ask yourself if this is a man we can trust?

[Zetterlund]

Gordon Brown is now claiming that SNP are liars. I ask you once more, read the first post, ask yourself if this is a man we can trust?

If the No vote clings on and just gets over the line, it will be despite the contributions of Brown, Cameron, Milliband and Clegg, and in no way whatsoever because of them.

The campaign has been an absolute disgrace of ever-increasing desperation, but the sad fact is that even a minus 21-point swing from it's peak would still be enough to win.

[Casual Bystander]

Remember that wheeze when Gordon Brown sold off 400 tonnes of gold at the lowest possible price in order to help a US bank?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

After all, losing £9bn is not worth worrying about, right?

Now, what was Gordon Brown, one of the most unpopular post war Prime Ministers, saying about trusting him about finances?

[NormanSaysNo]

Once more you try to shift the focus away from Brown and Darlings actions. Why is that?

Possibly because you're telling forum members to not trust the words of Darling and Brown due to their actions during the financial crisis (i.e. they encouraged certain bank practices and didn't see it coming).

Logically speaking, based on the fact that Salmond also encouraged the same bank practices and didn't see the crisis coming, you must conclude that we shouldn't trust anything he says either.