All things Dundee FC

[RossDee01]

I have absolutely no problem with us selling players, and of course that's what i expect us to do. The problem I have is when owners blatantly lie by telling us we're not a selling club when of course we are. That to me shows ignorance and arrogance, and for the fees we're getting for these players makes us look like complete pushovers at the same time.

 

A for my comment regarding Hartley, I want to love Hartley, I really do. I just can't anymore. We have a team of players on 3 year contracts who just aren't up to the standard. We also gave James McPake a deal before Gadzhalov so don't even get me started on that one. His stubbornness is getting us nowhere. He is convinced that his style will work and although it seems to be clear to everyone else that it isn't working, he doesn't seem like he's ever going to change. He's consistently playing formations which don't suit the players we have and is constantly playing players in positions they are not familiar with.

 

I don't understand why people are happy. I can't think of any other business where a manager is given goals (win a cup in Hartleys case) yet fails miserably year after year and STILL gets full backing. Our cup performances have been shambolic recently and if anyone suggests otherwise they need a serious head shake.

 

For the money we pay we deserve better. I pay my money week in week out home and away, and it's getting close to the stage where enough is enough. We're BY FAR the worst team I have seen this season and if we stay up it won't be by much.

 

Smaller clubs (i.e. St Johnstone) are doing much better than us season after season so why should we accept the football we have to endure every week?

 

We were outclassed by St Mirren for f**k sake.

[Dundee-FC92]

57 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Unless we expect the Americans to pump lots of money in whilst we mump and moan about ticket prices. 

We charge one of the highest prices in the league and we're fucking abysmal. If you charge premium prices then expect the expectations to rise. I'm not accepting paying more to go backwards and see no direction.

We were top six in the first season, played entertaining football at times and the prices were £10 & £20. Fine.

This Sunday people will be asked to fork out £18 and £25 to watch us weakly attempt to give Sevco a game, with our team of shitebags that the much backed Hartley has assembled. 

The rise in prices has been justified though, hasn't it? We've managed to use the extra revenue to become more stabilised as a club and make our squad stronger - have we f**k!

We're pitiful (worse than two years ago), with a squad that needs binned again in the summer, hopefully narrowly avoiding the play-offs along with cup disasters this season.

'What does much backed mean?'. The only manager in the league below the top teams who has been able to hand out 2/3 year contracts and continually bring in reinforcements. And guess what? We need to start all over this summer again cause we lost two of the last three years signings, making this season a write off. McGinn left because Hartley was a c**t about the contract.

Julen Etxabugeren, Danny Williams, James Vincent and Marcus Haber the latest to be given lengthy contracts. These players are out and out average to terrible players in this league which suggests little improvement to come next season. We should be doing better and it's not good enough at the moment. 

However, of course we need to take the money for Bain in the summer.

[Dundee-FC92]

We could bring in someone and go down next year, but that wouldn't change the fact that Hartley had to go in the summer, it would just mean the appointment was wrong.

[RossDee01]

I fucking hate our support sometimes.

You could have just said my name[emoji23]

But anyway, I want what's best for the club, and we are by no means an average side in this league. If you're happy paying the prices you see to watch the football you watch then fire on, but i'm not.

[LiamDFC]

36 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

I have absolutely no problem with us selling players, and of course that's what i expect us to do. The problem I have is when owners blatantly lie by telling us we're not a selling club when of course we are. That to me shows ignorance and arrogance, and for the fees we're getting for these players makes us look like complete pushovers at the same time.

A for my comment regarding Hartley, I want to love Hartley, I really do. I just can't anymore. We have a team of players on 3 year contracts who just aren't up to the standard. We also gave James McPake a deal before Gadzhalov so don't even get me started on that one. His stubbornness is getting us nowhere. He is convinced that his style will work and although it seems to be clear to everyone else that it isn't working, he doesn't seem like he's ever going to change. He's consistently playing formations which don't suit the players we have and is constantly playing players in positions they are not familiar with.

I don't understand why people are happy. I can't think of any other business where a manager is given goals (win a cup in Hartleys case) yet fails miserably year after year and STILL gets full backing. Our cup performances have been shambolic recently and if anyone suggests otherwise they need a serious head shake.

For the money we pay we deserve better. I pay my money week in week out home and away, and it's getting close to the stage where enough is enough. We're BY FAR the worst team I have seen this season and if we stay up it won't be by much.

Smaller clubs (i.e. St Johnstone) are doing much better than us season after season so why should we accept the football we have to endure every week?

We were outclassed by St Mirren for f**k sake.

Hold on, that isn't what we're talking about.

Hartley is a fucking nugget and he annoys the f**k out of me too. Your original point was about the owners. They've done what they said they'd do, they've given us stability for the first time in decades. I don't disagree with anything you've said about Hartley.

I think the only critisism that can be made about the owners is that they're naive in terms of contracts and clauses, but to my mind they're certainly not to blame for the mess we're currently in. At least this time the circus is on the park and not the boardroom.

Ps. I've just looked and you only joined last year so probably won't remember this unless you were reading before you signed up, but I was originally vehemently against the Americans taking over.

3 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

You could have just said my name

But anyway, I want what's best for the club, and we are by no means an average side in this league. If you're happy paying the prices you see to watch the football you watch then fire on, but i'm not.

You're not the only one. I read someone having a go at Bain this morning for not being a 'true Dee'.

There are lots of you.

Pps. Again, I've never once said I'm happy paying to watch this shite every week. My season ticket money could easily be spent elsewhere.

Edited February 17, 2017 by LiamDFC

[RossDee01]

You're not the only one. I read someone having a go at Bain this morning for not being a 'true Dee'.
There are lots of you.

My problem with the owners is the prices they charge and the constant backing they give Hartley in signing players. Like you say, they're naive.

If anyone thinks they really care about how Dundee play on the pitch then you're wrong. Unlike us they're not fans, they're businessmen out looking to make a profit, and we're the mugs that are over charged to watch shite turgid football.

I'm not going to lie, they're much better than owners we've had in the past. I just can't see us progressing too much under their control.

Prices HAVE to be slashed otherwise we have to completely transform into a team who is capable of playing football. I paid less to watch Liverpool in the premier league in January ffs.

[RawB93]

American business partners are out to make money. Who would've thought it?

[RossDee01]

Another gem from the depths of the thought tank. 'Can't see us progressing too much'. Dearie me. 
Edit : I only just read the last paragraph of your post. Another beauty. 

You're a troll of the highest order.

[RossDee01]

American business partners are out to make money. Who would've thought it?

You're telling me £25 is fair value for money?

[RawB93]

No. I'm not. It's definitely not worth £25 watching us play, I agree. However, the prices are set prior to the season starting with the intention of bringing money into the club, not in retrospect for the sake of reflecting value for money. I'm not sure there's much value for money anywhere in Scottish football.

[RossDee01]

The answer here is simple too. If you don't like it, don't go. 
Dont come on here telling everyone you spend your earned 'home and away' and then cry about how much it costs. 

You're yet to tell me what you disagree with, all you've done is thrown around insults.

You've clearly not read through all of my posts. I go because I love Dundee and i've already said i'm a mug for paying that to watch us.

[RossDee01]

No. I'm not. It's definitely not worth £25 watching us play, I agree. However, the prices are set prior to the season starting with the intention of bringing money into the club, not in retrospect for the sake of reflecting value for money. I'm not sure there's much value for money anywhere in Scottish football.

Surely then you'd agree that by cutting prices (especially this season with the debacle across the road) we could have had significantly larger crowds. Instead our crowds are falling.

We maybe wouldn't make quite as much money on the gates but we'd still be close. Plus i'm sure performances on the pitch would be slightly better. Top 6 is worth a good amount of money compared to the bottom 6.

It's not as if I want the Americans out, I just want some things to change and reflect who we are as a club.

[Dee Man]

We need to get The Baldy Snake in to either do our negotiating for us or get the c**t to give us advice on how to get top dollar for our best players.

Bain has easily been our best keeper for years and we are going to end up getting peanuts for him. Any less than £500k and we've been shafted again. 

[RawB93]

Surely then you'd agree that by cutting prices (especially this season with the debacle across the road) we could have had significantly larger crowds. Instead our crowds are falling.

We maybe wouldn't make quite as much money on the gates but we'd still be close. Plus i'm sure performances on the pitch would be slightly better. Top 6 is worth a good amount of money compared to the bottom 6.

It's not as if I want the Americans out, I just want some things to change and reflect who we are as a club.

You complain that we got poor fees for players yet you're fine with losing money on the gates because lower prices would make our performances better? Have you been at my LSD stash?

"Reflect who we are as a club" - that's an absolute belter. Not even gonna bother with a rebuttal.

[RossDee01]

You complain that we got poor fees for players yet you're fine with losing money on the gates because lower prices would make our performances better? Have you been at my LSD stash?

"Reflect who we are as a club" - that's an absolute belter. Not even gonna bother with a rebuttal.

How the f**k is that a belter? Aye because those prices reflect the standard of football.

We probably wouldn't even lose money on gates, all i'm saying is that if we did it would be made up elsewhere. I'm yet to see where the lack of money we got for Hemmings and Stewart is to be made up, cause it's not on the fucking pitch that's for sure.

[RossDee01]

I've thrown around one insult. I called you an idiot because frankly, you're an idiot. 
You thought we weren't a selling club because the Yanks said so? Even Celtic are a selling club. 
You're not sure on them because 'they don't talk'. They said we weren't a selling club, they've already broke your heart son. No words are better for you. 
You're right I don't read all your posts, I even said so in my last post. It's because you post absolute drivel and now I'm having to converse with you. It won't be happening again anytime soon.

f**k me you're responding to posts you're not even reading[emoji23]

I said we're a selling club and i don't know why they would say we aren't. Of course we're always going to be a selling club. My problem was with them being so naive.

If you remember it was you that replied to me. So maybe take your own advice, if you don't want to talk to me, don't.

[RossDee01]

We need to get The Baldy Snake in to either do our negotiating for us or get the c**t to give us advice on how to get top dollar for our best players.
Bain has easily been our best keeper for years and we are going to end up getting peanuts for him. Any less than £500k and we've been shafted again. 

He'll just pocket the money

[Dee Man]

12 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

No. I'm not. It's definitely not worth £25 watching us play, I agree. However, the prices are set prior to the season starting with the intention of bringing money into the club, not in retrospect for the sake of reflecting value for money. I'm not sure there's much value for money anywhere in Scottish football.

Exactly this. 

Outwith Celtic, I doubt any set of fans are ecstatic about their entrance money to entertainment ratio. 

Maybe Aberdeen fans the other night but you're always going to get the odd freak game. Sevco fans are moaning like f**k and Hearts fans have been bored shitless for years, Tynecastle is like a morgue and they're both in the top 4.

I'll bet anyone who paid in to watch the home games against St Johnstone and Hearts at the end of last year weren't complaining about what they paid to get in.  Unfortunately it's a gamble where the odds are stacked against you when you're hoping for a classic game of football. It obviously doesn't help when your manager's signing policy consists solely of getting shite, lightweight midfielders right enough.

[RossDee01]

Now that i've come on here and had a rant about value for money etc. we're now guaranteed a tactical masterclass from Hartley on Sunday and a convincing victory against the ****.

 

I'll take it.

 

[LiamDFC]

Selling club: We're all selling clubs. The reason that John Nelms said that we weren't a 'selling club' was most probably to try and milk as much from the Hemmings/Stewart deals as possible. It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to realise that. We didn't 'need' to sell, but we were always going to because it was in our best interest to take the money while we could. 

Did it work? I've no idea — but that's almost certainly why they said it. Genuinely baffled as to why this is a point of criticism...

Reduced prices: It's been talked about many times, but as far as I'm aware, dropping prices in Scottish football has never given improved crowds over a sustained period. Perhaps @HibeeJibeehas info on this? The only way the the cost of match-day football is going to change up here is if the SFA wake up and put some kind of cap in place. That won't ever happen as we're run by vermin like Neil Doncaster, so I wouldn't hold your breath of ever getting 'value for money' pricing at Dens or any other top-tier Scottish teams.

Conclusion: Having a go at a set of people that have come in and stabilised a club that they've absolutely no connection with, then rightly or wrongly backed their employee to do his job, is harsh in the extreme. It isn't their fault that their manager has gone off-piste and signed utter shite like Danny Williams — Hartley is the expert in this situation and he's responsible for his recruitment, not the Americans. All they can do is trust him to do his job and back him where they can. Countless clubs up and down the country are in a horrible mess because their respective boards get involved constantly. We've had it ourselves. Couple that with our terrible record of sacking and replacing managers on a whim, which has gotten us nowhere in the past.

I'll say it again; the only fair criticism of the Americans, IMO, is that they've been naive in allowing certain contractual clauses/deals to happen. The rest of the blame falls at the feet of the manager.

Edited February 17, 2017 by LiamDFC
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