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2 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

The stats I'm looking at indicate there are 80 more fans on average attending home games this season, compared to last. You'd need to cut the prices by at least a tenner before you had a significant uplift imo and even then it would be costing the club circa £30k per game in lost revenue. That would completely f**k us.

Which stats? you wouldn't need to reduce by anywhere near a tenner. It's kids prices that are the main issue however we are generally far too expensive in comparison to every other Prem team across the entry types.

The pricing and ticketing arrangements from FPS have been an absolute disgrace.

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The teams performances haven't been great . I accept that, but still believe he's one of the best young managers in the game.

So let's just say we bin him...who do you want to employ ? Please tell me .

I'm not out and out saying bin him but there is no denying we have gone backwards in both the last 2 seasons. Is that the mark of one the best young managers in the game?

If Harkins, McGinn, Hemmings and Stewart were so good why did we not canter to a top 6 finish last season?

St Johnstone didn't sell any top players in the Summer because they don't have anybody that other, wealthier teams fancied.

Why has one of the best young managers in the game not built a squad yet?

Who would have picked Tommy Wright as the man for the job from the heady heights of Lisburn Distillery?

I think the main thing the St Johnstone success story tells us is that the board and infrastructure are more important than the manager and the managerial recruitment process is, in amongst that, pivotal. If and when Wright leaves that will be 5 out of their last 8 managers who have left for bigger clubs, 5 lots of compensation for guys who they have replaced quite easily.

Maybe that's where we are failing and the actual manager isn't that critical, up to a point.

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30 minutes ago, Georgi's young lad said:

Wind yer neck in Sweetheart. A'body and there Doag knows home crowds are down and prices (especially kids) are a major issue at Dens yet you want to divert attention away from the issue and get wrapped up in a pointless debate. Overall attendances may very well be up however Dee fans are not showing up in their droves and home attendances are without question down. ST sale's as well. Don't worry though, as long as you're cool with it. Go and slaver yer pish tae someone else. :thumsup2

To add - if you want irrefutable proof, look up the crowds month on month, game on game over the past two seasons and deduct the away support yourself. 

Ah, so you don't have any proof of crowds being down, just your anecdotal evidence of there being more seats available around you but not realising that's down to you being a moaning c**t week after week and folk changing their seats. That's what I thought.

19 minutes ago, bobbycoxblue said:

 


No manager in the history of football has ever got it right 100 percent year on year .

The teams performances haven't been great . I accept that, but still believe he's one of the best young managers in the game.

So let's just say we bin him...who do you want to employ ? Please tell me .

 

He's already said Alan Archibald. We've got a live one here.

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Which stats? you wouldn't need to reduce by anywhere near a tenner. It's kids prices that are the main issue however we are generally far too expensive in comparison to every other Prem team across the entry types.
The pricing and ticketing arrangements from FPS have been an absolute disgrace.


Just had a look at a couple of other clubs. St Johnstone have an incredible deal in the Ormond - 1 adult and 2 under 12's - £16. At Dens that would be £26. Otherwise their prices are similar. Motherwell prices very similar to ours.

The St Johnstone deal is very good but is it fair that someone with an under 12 gets in for £7 less than a guy with no kids?

I think keeping adult prices all the same but letting under 12's in free (when accompanied) might be a shout.

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Just had a look at a couple of other clubs. St Johnstone have an incredible deal in the Ormond - 1 adult and 2 under 12's - £16. At Dens that would be £26. Otherwise their prices are similar. Motherwell prices very similar to ours.

The St Johnstone deal is very good but is it fair that someone with an under 12 gets in for £7 less than a guy with no kids?

I think keeping adult prices all the same but letting under 12's in free (when accompanied) might be a shout.

As a Saints fan who regularly takes his 12 year old daughter to away games, it boils my piss that my team gives an incredible deal for a parent and two under 12s entry for 15 ( now 16). Yet when I go to every other ground in Scotland it costs approx 30 to 33 quid for me and daughter. I think every kid under 16 should be free across the whole of scotland

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2 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

 


Just had a look at a couple of other clubs. St Johnstone have an incredible deal in the Ormond - 1 adult and 2 under 12's - £16. At Dens that would be £26. Otherwise their prices are similar. Motherwell prices very similar to ours.

The St Johnstone deal is very good but is it fair that someone with an under 12 gets in for £7 less than a guy with no kids?

I think keeping adult prices all the same but letting under 12's in free (when accompanied) might be a shout.

 

The St Johnstone deal is terrific but there were only about 10 Dees in that stand for the last game.  There should be some sort of reciprocal deal for Saints coming to Dens IMO (not that it would increase numbers, just for 'fairness').  

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As a Saints fan who regularly takes his 12 year old daughter to away games, it boils my piss that my team gives an incredible deal for a parent and two under 12s entry for 15 ( now 16). Yet when I go to every other ground in Scotland it costs approx 30 to 33 quid for me and daughter. I think every kid under 16 should be free across the whole of scotland


I wouldn't take an under 12 to McDiarmid, it's too dangerous walking out through the death trap car park.

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I'm not out and out saying bin him but there is no denying we have gone backwards in both the last 2 seasons. Is that the mark of one the best young managers in the game?
If Harkins, McGinn, Hemmings and Stewart were so good why did we not canter to a top 6 finish last season?
St Johnstone didn't sell any top players in the Summer because they don't have anybody that other, wealthier teams fancied.
Why has one of the best young managers in the game not built a squad yet?
Who would have picked Tommy Wright as the man for the job from the heady heights of Lisburn Distillery?
I think the main thing the St Johnstone success story tells us is that the board and infrastructure are more important than the manager and the managerial recruitment process is, in amongst that, pivotal. If and when Wright leaves that will be 5 out of their last 8 managers who have left for bigger clubs, 5 lots of compensation for guys who they have replaced quite easily.
Maybe that's where we are failing and the actual manager isn't that critical, up to a point.


That's what stability brings.. st johnstone have been an established top flight club for many years. .. chopping and changing managers takes you backwards . This thread is starting to sound very arabesque...

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12 hours ago, Dee Man said:

I think folk are forgetting that Hemmings was sold at the end of July and Stewart at the end of August so by that point any decent players on the market would've been tied up which is why Hartley had to sniff about to get what was left.

We'll bury the tractor boys on Saturday and everything will be rosy again.

Dee Man, after the season they had did anyone actually believe that Hemmings and Stewart were going to remain at Dens?  Especially when you consider the £250k clause for Hemmings and the fact Stewart was in the last year of his contract.  If Hartley didn't know what was happening with both of them then that is poor.  The board and Hartley should have been liaising a lot closer about the situation. 

Your last point is on the other hand 100% correct!

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We don't have dabs this year so Rangers balances that out.
Eta: I should've read the post above first, obvz.
Eta pt 2: And anyway, you can't "beg to differ" on facts - the attendances are either down or they aren't . 


Let's not deal with facts.
Davidson was good for facts. Won more games when he played rather than when he didn't play

How many clean sheets have we had in the league this season ? Yup I can't be bothered looking but can't be much

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2 hours ago, bobbycoxblue said:

 


No manager in the history of football has ever got it right 100 percent year on year .

The teams performances haven't been great . I accept that, but still believe he's one of the best young managers in the game.

So let's just say we bin him...who do you want to employ ? Please tell me .

 

What percentage of his transfers have been a success, and is it what one would expect?

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1 hour ago, Dee Man said:

Ah, so you don't have any proof of crowds being down, just your anecdotal evidence of there being more seats available around you but not realising that's down to you being a moaning c**t week after week and folk changing their seats. That's what I thought.

He's already said Alan Archibald. We've got a live one here.

Not me pal.. I sit in the Derry with my two boys (both under ten) and eight other family members. My fitba etiquette is exemplary :)

I just take issue with Dees like you who, if you continue with your denial tactics, will soon be sitting amongst 2000 Dundee supporters paying £30 a game or £500 a season.

Open your eyes. 

There are season ticket holders for 30 years+ amongst my group (myself included) and at this stage at least half aren't renewing next year and will just pick and choose their games. If you have kids yourself you'll understand what that means. Desperate to bring them up as Dees but faced with shelling out £12 (£15 for Cat A) a pop to take an 8 year old kid to Dens when other grounds are letting them in significantly cheaper or for free in some cases. The list of games that folk actually end up attending gets shorter and shorter. Before you know it, we've turned into a St Johnstone or Killie in terms of supporter base.

Not to mention the ridiculous situation with no cash gates and queuing twice to get a ticket on the day of the game. Crazy, And another unnecessary barrier preventing folk from getting to the game. All this at a time when we should be growing the club and capitalizing on the demise of the no righters next door.

So yes, I'll continue being a live wire and you continue to not face up to the reality of what's currently going on. Home crowds are most certainly down over the last two seasons. It beggars belief that you would deny that to be honest. Unless you don't go to Dens; that would maybe explain it. 

My Hearts supporting mate refused to pay what Dundee wanted for him and his three kids (all under 12) last week. £70. The same fixture at Tynecaslte would have cost him as little as £33 for all four of them.

I'll be there tomorrow as always; cheering on the team and hoping for huge improvements from both players and manager. If it doesn't happen sharpish, this big handsome b*****d should be tapped up. Fairly certain he'd do a better job with the same level of backing that Hartleys had.

304731-alan-archibald-wants-partick-this

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18 minutes ago, Georgi's young lad said:

Not me pal.. I sit in the Derry with my two boys (both under ten) and eight other family members. My fitba etiquette is exemplary :)

I just take issue with Dees like you who, if you continue with your denial tactics, will soon be sitting amongst 2000 Dundee supporters paying £30 a game or £500 a season.

Open your eyes. 

There are season ticket holders for 30 years+ amongst my group (myself included) and at this stage at least half aren't renewing next year and will just pick and choose their games. If you have kids yourself you'll understand what that means. Desperate to bring them up as Dees but faced with shelling out £12 (£15 for Cat A) a pop to take an 8 year old kid to Dens when other grounds are letting them in significantly cheaper or for free in some cases. The list of games that folk actually end up attending gets shorter and shorter. Before you know it, we've turned into a St Johnstone or Killie in terms of supporter base.

Not to mention the ridiculous situation with no cash gates and queuing twice to get a ticket on the day of the game. Crazy, And another unnecessary barrier preventing folk from getting to the game. All this at a time when we should be growing the club and capitalizing on the demise of the no righters next door.

So yes, I'll continue being a live wire and you continue to not face up to the reality of what's currently going on. Home crowds are most certainly down over the last two seasons. It beggars belief that you would deny that to be honest. Unless you don't go to Dens; that would maybe explain it. 

My Hearts supporting mate refused to pay what Dundee wanted for him and his three kids (all under 12) last week. £70. The same fixture at Tynecaslte would have cost him as little as £33 for all four of them.

I'll be there tomorrow as always; cheering on the team and hoping for huge improvements from both players and manager. If it doesn't happen sharpish, this big handsome b*****d should be tapped up. Fairly certain he'd do a better job with the same level of backing that Hartleys had.

304731-alan-archibald-wants-partick-this

I agree with all of it, apart from the last sentence. 

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18 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

No DABs at Dens.

Thank you.

Shite. Forgot he was a froot. Point(s) is:

1. The "who's out there thats better?" argument can't and won't last forever if PH continues to clown around.

2. Many of the players aren't up to it but Bruce Forsyth would probably get more out of this squad if he deployed them in a simple shape and allowed them to play their natural game in their strongest positions.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Play said:

Dee Man, after the season they had did anyone actually believe that Hemmings and Stewart were going to remain at Dens?  Especially when you consider the £250k clause for Hemmings and the fact Stewart was in the last year of his contract.  If Hartley didn't know what was happening with both of them then that is poor.  The board and Hartley should have been liaising a lot closer about the situation. 

Your last point is on the other hand 100% correct!

Like you say, it all depends on whether or not Hartley knew they were going to be offski. The way he was kicking about the market for the dregs suggests to me that he didn't, but until anyone knows for sure then he can't be blamed for it. If he knew that they would be gone then he's made a c**t of getting in decent replacements. Either way, the way the Stewart and Hemmings transfers were dealt with was shambolic - either get rid at the end of the season or if you're going to haggle all summer for Stewart then get more than 500k FFS. 

1 hour ago, Georgi's young lad said:

Not me pal.. I sit in the Derry with my two boys (both under ten) and eight other family members. My fitba etiquette is exemplary :)

I just take issue with Dees like you who, if you continue with your denial tactics, will soon be sitting amongst 2000 Dundee supporters paying £30 a game or £500 a season.

Open your eyes. 

There are season ticket holders for 30 years+ amongst my group (myself included) and at this stage at least half aren't renewing next year and will just pick and choose their games. If you have kids yourself you'll understand what that means. Desperate to bring them up as Dees but faced with shelling out £12 (£15 for Cat A) a pop to take an 8 year old kid to Dens when other grounds are letting them in significantly cheaper or for free in some cases. The list of games that folk actually end up attending gets shorter and shorter. Before you know it, we've turned into a St Johnstone or Killie in terms of supporter base.

Not to mention the ridiculous situation with no cash gates and queuing twice to get a ticket on the day of the game. Crazy, And another unnecessary barrier preventing folk from getting to the game. All this at a time when we should be growing the club and capitalizing on the demise of the no righters next door.

So yes, I'll continue being a live wire and you continue to not face up to the reality of what's currently going on. Home crowds are most certainly down over the last two seasons. It beggars belief that you would deny that to be honest. Unless you don't go to Dens; that would maybe explain it. 

My Hearts supporting mate refused to pay what Dundee wanted for him and his three kids (all under 12) last week. £70. The same fixture at Tynecaslte would have cost him as little as £33 for all four of them.

I'll be there tomorrow as always; cheering on the team and hoping for huge improvements from both players and manager. If it doesn't happen sharpish, this big handsome b*****d should be tapped up. Fairly certain he'd do a better job with the same level of backing that Hartleys had.

304731-alan-archibald-wants-partick-this

Denying what? You've already had two other posters give you figures that the crowds are actually slightly up. 

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Shite. Forgot he was a froot. Point(s) is:
1. The "who's out there thats better?" argument can't and won't last forever if PH continues to clown around.
2. Many of the players aren't up to it but Bruce Forsyth would probably get more out of this squad if he deployed them in a simple shape and allowed them to play their natural game in their strongest positions.


Bruce Forsyth it is then.

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1 hour ago, Georgi's young lad said:

Not me pal.. I sit in the Derry with my two boys (both under ten) and eight other family members. My fitba etiquette is exemplary :)

I just take issue with Dees like you who, if you continue with your denial tactics, will soon be sitting amongst 2000 Dundee supporters paying £30 a game or £500 a season.

Open your eyes. 

There are season ticket holders for 30 years+ amongst my group (myself included) and at this stage at least half aren't renewing next year and will just pick and choose their games. If you have kids yourself you'll understand what that means. Desperate to bring them up as Dees but faced with shelling out £12 (£15 for Cat A) a pop to take an 8 year old kid to Dens when other grounds are letting them in significantly cheaper or for free in some cases. The list of games that folk actually end up attending gets shorter and shorter. Before you know it, we've turned into a St Johnstone or Killie in terms of supporter base.

Not to mention the ridiculous situation with no cash gates and queuing twice to get a ticket on the day of the game. Crazy, And another unnecessary barrier preventing folk from getting to the game. All this at a time when we should be growing the club and capitalizing on the demise of the no righters next door.

So yes, I'll continue being a live wire and you continue to not face up to the reality of what's currently going on. Home crowds are most certainly down over the last two seasons. It beggars belief that you would deny that to be honest. Unless you don't go to Dens; that would maybe explain it. 

My Hearts supporting mate refused to pay what Dundee wanted for him and his three kids (all under 12) last week. £70. The same fixture at Tynecaslte would have cost him as little as £33 for all four of them.

I'll be there tomorrow as always; cheering on the team and hoping for huge improvements from both players and manager. If it doesn't happen sharpish, this big handsome b*****d should be tapped up. Fairly certain he'd do a better job with the same level of backing that Hartleys had.

304731-alan-archibald-wants-partick-this

I agree with a lot of your points but an 8 year can get a season ticket at Dens for £40.

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