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I'm beginning to wonder if Hartley is clued up enough about the art of defending or if he can actually 'pick' a central defender. We've signed about 8 bombscares on the bounce and they seem completely clueless about how to defend as a unit. Rather than signing more mediocrity maybe we need a bloody good defensive coach to better organise the resources we have. I'm not calling for the man's head or anything remotely close to that but a decent cup run is very important to us on many levels. We were gifted an easy draw and we have completely blown it.

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Erm, the Premiership hasn't kicked off yet but given that your playing your football in the Championship this season I can see how you've made your mistake.


Dunno. I have heard that the really difficult teams are in League One. Still, I am sure a big team like Dundee would have no problems dealing with teams of that calibre though.
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18 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

It is tbh. Slating Hartley as a manager is simply ridiculous. There's a difference between hounding him for this utter cluster f**k of a start to a season and hounding him in general. It's as if some (And I'm not saying srw is one) want him to fail. That much is clear when you look at the forums. There's plenty of Dundee fans that thrive on misery.

100% Agree with this, as embarrassing as some of the football has been, at this stage it's absolutely mental to be punishing Hartley.  Some of the stuff being hurled at players at the East Fife game and the Dumbarton game is just downright bizarre. Never did understand the philosophy of calling someone a f**king idiot to improve performance.

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In all honesty the results are disappointing there's no denying that but we still have a full season to play. No point in writing the season off already. I think some of the fans criticising and moaning need to remember where we have been the past decade. Will never forget standing on the terraces watching our team with griffiths and Harkins getting beat by Cowdenbeath then going into administration again shortly after. Compare that to now and tell me we've not made progress

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Reading elsewhere that Greg Stewart 'Sssh'ed' our fans when he scored and Paul McGowan at the end was shouting at fans saying that some boys are actually scared to do anything with the ball out of fear of the abuse they'll receive if they misplace it etc.

We can say we're as bad as everyone else, we can say 'we pay our money, we're entitled to vent' and we can say 'they deserved it', but what we can't say, is that it helps anyone at our club. Gives us a poor reputation as fans, and doesn't inspire the players to do well.

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Totally agree Ludo. Our fans are always so quick to get on the backs of anyone struggling, it can't ever possibly help. 

I go to games in support of my team and that's exactly what I do - support them. Imagine verbally abusing someone on your football team, what support is that?!

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Every single year I say this cup is an embarrassment and I personally could not give two fucks about it. Every single year people get their knickers in a massive bunch about going out of it. Every year (the last three) we've had decent enough seasons come the end. 

Edited by Deeboy
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The league has to be the main priority for us as it is one of the main sources of our playing budget. If McGowan yesterday was saying players are afraid to misplace a pass because of the fans as is rumoured then he's totally right to get angry, in the -25 point season when the team went 1-0 down the fans didn't boo, they motivated the team. Why in the past few seasons does every pass or dribble that doesn't quite work warrant the player getting slated?

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Dundee remind me of the dundee utd team of a few season ago. They have 3 very good players (Bain, Stewart and Hemmings) which masks the average nature of the rest of the squad. United were similar, although could argue they had more than 3. Will be interesting to see what happens if/when these 3 leave.

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Every single year I say this cup is an embarrassment and I personally could not give two fucks about it. Every single year people get their knickers in a massive bunch about going out of it. Every year (the last three) we've had decent enough seasons come the end. 

Why would you treat it like that? It's one of only 2 cups Dundee can ever win?

Eta: same for every other premiership team bar Celtic or Rangers mind you. But bizarre you'd see one of the 3 major cups, one of 2 you can win as an embarrassment? Us diddies, League 1/2 clubs can say that as we will never win it. Perfect cup for teams like Dundee though?

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Because it's an absolutely laughable competition. As the folk who run it have shown quite clearly this season. 



No, what they've done is give clubs like Arbroath a bit of a payday and interest and made a format that will get them out asap so they can have the final this side of Christmas.

The last 16 still remains the same and it's heavily weighted so the top teams make it to this stage.

The League, The Scottish and The League cup are the 3 major trophies in Scotland. No idea why a Dundee fan is writing it off when it's one of the only 2 they can win. Don't get it, looking in from the outside it seems daft.



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Because it's an absolutely laughable competition. As the folk who run it have shown quite clearly this season. 



To be fair, compared to the challenge cup, this competition makes a lot of sense.

The only thing i would change is that teams should be allowed more subs. Other than that, I think it has been a good addition. Makes pre-season mildly more interesting
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Because it's an absolutely laughable competition. As the folk who run it have shown quite clearly this season. 




Appears that PH feels the same about this competition as you do.

PH states he wants to win a trophy at Dundee and yet he treats this competition with utter contempt.

Fed up of his saying the words "pre season" or "two weeks away".

The season started on 16th July if PH wanted more time to prepare his players he should have arranged more friendly matches.

Another embarrassing result under the management of PH to add to the catalogue.

Would never berate the players the way it apparently happened last night but PH needs to get back to basics and get this team organised quick.
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I'm in no way trying to defend the team but having been at the East Fife and Dumbarton games, I have been at least encouraged by every new signing and think that O'Hara and Williams have the potential to be great signings.

It's worth noting that in any other group competition that doesn't have the penalty shootout, we would be going in to the Forfar match knowing a win would be enough for us to win the group providing Peterhead don't win against a team in a higher division than them.

We are also not the only top team to have struggled with the time of year whether people like to acknowledge it or not:

Ayr 2-1 Hamilton
Stirling Albion 1-0 Falkirk
Alloa 3-2 Ross County
Ross County lost to Raith on penalties and are also out.
Inverness lost to United on penalties.
Kilmarnock 0-2 Morton
St Johnstone lost to Brechin on penalties.

Being 23, I've never seen Dundee win a major trophy and we've barely come close in that time, but I would take our current situation over what has happened in the last 20 years any day.

I'm also waiting for everyone to jump on the players back after the league season kicks off but if we get 1 point from a trip to Dingwall and an OF match, I'll be delighted.

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A large section of our support will never be happy. After we relegated United at Dens I met a guy outside who's first words to me were "I thought Wighton had a poor game tonight". And he was being serious.

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8 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Reading elsewhere that Greg Stewart 'Sssh'ed' our fans when he scored and Paul McGowan at the end was shouting at fans saying that some boys are actually scared to do anything with the ball out of fear of the abuse they'll receive if they misplace it etc.

You can understand the logic there. 

Players are only human and will misplace passes or decide to shoot when they should have squared etc. But if you play in front of fans where a vocal section berates you every time it happens, then it ends up being catch-22. 

There's one guy I always overhear who criticises literally everything - even goals ("about time" or similar). Player receives a pass - moaned at for not then passing it on quickly; player shoots from a decent position - moaned at for shooting instead of making a nonexistent pass; player makes an inch-perfect cross-field pass - moaned at for  "a long ball". 

It's mintertastic and almost St Mirren-esque.

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