All things Dundee FC

[Fifespud]

9 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Think Anderson is absolutely rotten, personally.

Agree though - Williamson along with half the team's form has dipped considerably.

I meant we ‘were’ better when Anderson came on today - sorry typo. He’s had a lot of shite games too. 
I’m back to thinking the manager is nout special. 

[Ludo*1]

Just now, Fifespud said:

I meant we ‘were’ better when Anderson came on today - sorry typo. He’s had a lot of shite games too. 
I’m back to thinking the manager is nout special. 

I don't blame you Spud - some very questionable stuff from him recently

. Been discussing it on the DB Forum. I still think Bowyer is better than what we've had, but I wouldn't say he's exactly 'good' either. He's an appointment that I'll never have a go at Nelms for - he was an outside the box, not your usual merry-go-round type and someone from down South that I've thought was a route we should go for, for a good number of years. Bowyer's on record as saying he's found it much more difficult than expected to entice players from South of the border.

I genuinely believe he'd make a mark on the squad next season but if we don't win the league, then I don't think he deserves that chance especially when it's as poor as it is regardless of being hampered by McPake's squad.

He's got 8 games to prove he's the man - big ask that.

[Boo Khaki]

14 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

One up front is the issue if your midfield don't support the lone striker and sit far too deep.

I agree totally. What I was getting at is that Bowyer is still trying to use McMullan in the same sort of support role that he was playing in when we were playing with a 3/5/2 and it isn't working because there's not only less support coming through the middle, but the lack of a more aggressive fullback occupying the wide area means McMullan spends even more time further away from Robinson. It's the lack of support, from anywhere, that is the issue rather than just the fact we are playing with only one central forward player.

It's a concept that works perfectly well if you have the correct player in the role and the team set up to accommodate it, but we neither have the correct type of striker, nor the support there to make it work.

With regard to sitting far too deep, yes, when we don't have the ball everything collapses across our own box. We win it back, and there's nowhere to go with it. When we do keep the ball it's usually because we've passed it around in our own half, we let the entire team push forward, by which time the opposition is back in their shape, we play keep baw between Sweeney and Ashcroft, and the rest of the team is strung out across their box. It's a lack of structure. Simultaneously too flat and deep without the ball, too slow to get it forward as a result, and then also too 'flat' in attack. 

I think it was Ludo who said we are totally missing a 'link' player, and that's exactly how I see it.

[D TOTAL]

On the bright side…clean sheet

[johnnydun]

Robinson is hugely overrated imo. Alright as 2nd striker or playing up front in a 2, but Bowyer asks way too much of him.

9 goals, 3 of them pens.

 

[Ludo*1]

Think it boils down to - any other day, that's a cracking point - but it's mixed in with uninspiring form, QP extending the gap at the top and not a whole lot of football left to be played.

If any one of those three things were different, we'd look at today totally differently but we're running out of time to 'get good'.

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, johnnydun said:

Robinson is hugely overrated imo. Alright as 2nd striker or playing up front in a 2, but Bowyer asks way too much of him.

9 goals, 3 of them pens.

 

I know we disagree on this as we've done so in the past. I think Robinson probably is slightly overrated, but I still think he's an excellent player and if he were our own, I'd be more excited about him than any of our other youth players. Don't think he's a natural goalscorer though and works better in a 2. Certainly being hung out to dry in a formation that's begging for Kwame.

On Kwame - just want to say, I don't particularly rate him. He's a dime a dozen utter haddy of a target man, but I don't think it's necessarily praise to say we miss him when it comes to this sort of set-up that we're going for.

[This Charming Man]

In my mind, the obvious issue is the playing pool in the main is clearly not of the standard expected by any of us to represent our club, regardless of which league we compete in next season.

Due to the majority of playing staff being recruited by James Mistake, this will come as no great surprise to anyone on here. However, how do you motivate employees to go that 'extra special' distance and clinch a league, who the majority of which are clearly not going to be retained in the summer?

Six or seven seasons of utter rancid pish now and counting, primarily due to John Nelms' ineptitude in managerial recruitment. Kindred charming polite man he is, I include Gary Bowyer in this equation.  

I recall in 2005 (after relegation) due to work commitments not renewing my season ticket and missing out on the Alan Kernaghan experience. Surely this current level of performance must be worse?

Genuine question.  

 

 

[Fifespud]

34 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Think it boils down to - any other day, that's a cracking point - but it's mixed in with uninspiring form, QP extending the gap at the top and not a whole lot of football left to be played.

If any one of those three things were different, we'd look at today totally differently but we're running out of time to 'get good'.

Very true. They’re a pretty decent side, always like Brannigan. 

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, This Charming Man said:

In my mind, the obvious issue is the playing pool in the main is clearly not of the standard expected by any of us to represent our club, regardless of which league we compete in next season.

Due to the majority of playing staff being recruited by James Mistake, this will come as no great surprise to anyone on here. However, how do you motivate employees to go that 'extra special' distance and clinch a league, who the majority of which are clearly not going to be retained in the summer?

Six or seven seasons of utter rancid pish now and counting, primarily due to John Nelms' ineptitude in managerial recruitment. Kindred charming polite man he is, I include Gary Bowyer in this equation.  

I recall in 2005 (after relegation) due to work commitments not renewing my season ticket and missing out on the Alan Kernaghan experience. Surely this current level of performance must be worse?

Genuine question.  

 

 

No - not even in the same ballpark. 

Nor is it close to being as bad as latter day Alex Rae, Chisholm's whole spell, the Club 12 shambles, McIntyre or McGhee.

The only thing that elevates McPake above it - and make no mistake, I believe he's a significantly poorer manager than Bowyer - is the fact that Charlie Adam was able to drudge up some entertainment and drag us kicking and screaming to 2nd place in the Championship on the last day.

Not that any of that is necessarily praise for Bowyer. It's just not close to being as bad as those days.

[D'Jaffo]

What was the length of contract given to Bowyer? Even if stay down it’s not the end of the world. He’ll have a blank canvas next season given your players contract situation and only then you’ll find out his opinions on your current squad. I think he’d be worth another year in this league. 

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, D'Jaffo said:

What was the length of contract given to Bowyer? Even if stay down it’s not the end of the world. He’ll have a blank canvas next season given your players contract situation and only then you’ll find out his opinions on your current squad. I think he’d be worth another year in this league. 

Think it's telling that he's not offered a single player a new deal.

As for him, he's on a rolling contract.

I know how it might look on the outside considering our history - but there was still an expectation to piss this league this season considering how weak it is and that's where the flak comes from. Unacceptable that a team that couldn't even win League One last season can beat us to the league title - Gretna-esque or not!

[Dundee-FC92]

Cameron was utter shite today and the decision to play him the whole game was a scandal. IMO Camerons been stifling us for weeks - totally sick of him starting every game. Dont care if he scored last week he was awful then aswell. Jakubiak should be on instead of him.

McMullen hooked (wasn't great) instead of Hannant who was abject was another disgrace.

We were winning games when McGhee was playing in a back 3, now we have McGhee playing behind the strikers as Williamson holds. Getting Williamson on the ball deep could be effective for starting passing moves but he's never a holding midfielder in a month of Sundays.

Shite, Bowyer. Get it fucking sorted.

League isn't over by any means but we need the win on Tuesday. Get Robinson and Jakubiak starting together and stop being so fucking negative - its not working.

Thank you.

[Fifespud]

31 minutes ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

Cameron was utter shite today and the decision to play him the whole game was a scandal. IMO Camerons been stifling us for weeks - totally sick of him starting every game. Dont care if he scored last week he was awful then aswell. Jakubiak should be on instead of him.

McMullen hooked (wasn't great) instead of Hannant who was abject was another disgrace.

We were winning games when McGhee was playing in a back 3, now we have McGhee playing behind the strikers as Williamson holds. Getting Williamson on the ball deep could be effective for starting passing moves but he's never a holding midfielder in a month of Sundays.

Shite, Bowyer. Get it fucking sorted.

League isn't over by any means but we need the win on Tuesday. Get Robinson and Jakubiak starting together and stop being so fucking negative - its not working.

Thank you.

I actually thought Cameron was one of our brighter lights today. 
I agree that Hannan was shite, as was Williamson. He alternates between lukewarm and pish. 
McGhee is a waste of skin in central midfield. 

[This Charming Man]

Thank you @Ludo*1 for your informed Alan Kernaghan era reply. Back in 2005, not renewing my season ticket at that time I honestly thought I would pick and choose my games, work permitting that was. The reality being and casting my mind back, I attended I think 4 games that season, ffs. Very poor fare on display.

This current season, if I'm really being perfectly honest and it does pain me. Not sure I'd open the lounge blinds and submit Mrs TCM to Dundee FC, Paul McMullan and co playing outside our house, jeezi-peeps. This is without doubt, 'a shite state of affairs', to quote Renton from 'Trainspotting'.

I, much like our current club owner Tim Keyes', am not sure of the way ahead I'm afraid. However to empty the inept John Nelms and the leech that is Gordon Strachan, that'd certainly be a positive constructive start, imho.

Hopefully any comment from Tim Keyes regarding our club within the next 12 months would be most welcome.

If not, name your price, sell to a party who may genuinely be interested and off you pop my good man. Show some decorum and class Mr Keyes if the Dundee Crematorium project is not going to happen.

Plans to build a new stadium with 3 players under contract, holy shit, waken up everyone.

Thank you.

  

 

 

 

  

[Pens_Dark]

Today was a total mess and Bowyer cut the figure of a manager that had no idea how to change it. Swapping Jakubiak (who was bright when he came on) for Robinson rather than link the two when we were desperate for a goal? Keeping Hannant on the pitch? He's fucking bogging btw. 

As far as I'm concerned that is the league done for us. Even with this game in hand which I'm convinced we will lose anyway. A season of 'if we do this' and 'if we beat them' and 'if we win this game in hand'. We are downright uninspiring and we have a squad that is simply not up for the fight. Queens Park will drop points between now and the end of the season - I just don't have any faith in us to capitalise on that.

As other people have suggested, our January transfer window has stifled us and made us worse. Laughable that this is the case. 

Edited March 18 by Pens_Dark

[K.T]

I think the contract situation is the main problem tbh. Players looked like they were already on their holidays today, not chasing a title.

[Dundee-FC92]

49 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

I actually thought Cameron was one of our brighter lights today. 
I agree that Hannan was shite, as was Williamson. He alternates between lukewarm and pish. 
McGhee is a waste of skin in central midfield. 

Nah, Cameron has been utterly dreadful for us of late. 

He always looks busy so can see why people would like his 'type' but he gave the ball away time after time today and Partick were far too physical for him. He has good technical ability but his total lack of pace seen him losing the ball in good counter attacking situations.

He's young and i can see the bit of talent he has , that's not in doubt. There's absolutely no way he's ready to play week in week out in a championship winning side though - not a chance. 

If you look at players like McGhee, Cameron and Marshall then it begins to take the disappointment from the performance today as you realise we simply don't have the players to win game like today. I never had any belief we'd go there and win today and that's how it turned out. 

On Tuesday we may well hand the league to Coyle. If we win we have more than a good chance however. Who can we rely on to turn up on Tuesday and win the game for us when needed. Answers on a postcard please. The writing is on the wall as the likes of Marshall, McGhee, Ashcroft, Legzdins and McMullen treat us to more catastrophic failure. 

Yet people still want immediate contraacts? Bin the lot of them please. 

Thank you. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

1 minute ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

Nah, Cameron has been utterly dreadful for us of late. 

He always looks busy so can see why people would like his 'type' but he gave the ball away time after time today and Partick were far too physical for him. He has good technical ability but his total lack of pace seen him losing the ball in good counter attacking situations.

He's young and i can see the bit of talent he has , that's not in doubt. There's absolutely no way he's ready to play week in week out in a championship winning side though - not a chance. 

If you look at players like McGhee, Cameron and Marshall then it begins to take the disappointment from the performance today as you realise we simply don't have the players to win game like today. I never had any belief we'd go there and win today and that's how it turned out. 

On Tuesday we may well hand the league to Coyle. If we win we have more than a good chance however. Who can we rely on to turn up on Tuesday and win the game for us when needed. Answers on a postcard please. The writing is on the wall as the likes of Marshall, McGhee, Ashcroft, Legzdins and McMullen treat us to more catastrophic failure. 

Yet people still want immediate contraacts? Bin the lot of them please. 

Thank you. 

He is too lightweight when we face the better teams in this division - it doesn't help though that there are other more experienced players round him taking zero responsibility.

[Boo Khaki]

Hannant especially looks like he's totally uninterested. Jogs, like literally jogs, into his defensive positions, makes no attempt whatsoever to run into positions off the ball when we have it, always seems to concentrate on being 5 yards away from the nearest opponent whether or not we have the ball so that he can either take it without having to make any effort, or if the ball goes to that opponent he can jog up to them and make a pretence of closing it down.

There was one point today where we had a corner not long before half time. He was closest to the ball when it went out, but as McMullan (i think) came over to take it, Hannant turned his back on the ball, walked away, literally walked at snail's pace, slumped over as if he was completely and utterly knackered, and made himself totally unavailable to take the ball despite there being no Partick player anywhere close. 

He's one of the laziest, most half-arsed players I've ever seen, and I have no idea what the slumping over was about because he never once broke sweat in the entire match.