All things Dundee FC

[Ludo*1]

Just now, johnnydun said:

Nah Ludo, this should've happened months ago. Bowyer's constant tinkering is at fault for this. I understand that he has the majority of McPake's squad but he still doesn't see what we find really obvious every week.

Too late, league is done.

I don't think we've had a squad that could win ever week 'months ago' until the end of the season.

If we win say, 6 out of our next 8, I still think we win the league. Huge ask but with 4 of the next 5 being at Dens and the other at Gayfield, it's not impossible.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

I don't think we've had a squad that could win ever week 'months ago' until the end of the season.

If we win say, 6 out of our next 8, I still think we win the league. Huge ask but with 4 of the next 5 being at Dens and the other at Gayfield, it's not impossible.

We've not been consistent enough to do that though.

[johnnydun]

4 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

I'm happy to give him the summer to bring in more of his own players. There's nothing about him makes me think 'out of his depth, needs punted ASAP', but at the same time I'm still a long way from being convinced that he's a good bet to be at Dens in a year+ from now.

Nah, some of his own imports have been utter garbage. Apart from French (who just gets pass marks) Robinson is the only player he has brought in with anything looking like quality, and he's not even ours. I still think Robinson is quite 'meh' tbh.

[rhumbaclub]

9 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Whatever happens this season, I'm starting to think Bowyer isn't the right guy for us.

Agreed. Comes across like a decent bloke but that team is obsoletely brutal to watch. His signings have been poor but on a limited budget i know, but even if he was backed more by the board can he be trusted to bring in enough quality for us to progress, i doubt it.

[EpicMike]

Really need to be picking up points but Dundee probably have the easier run of fixtures now compared to Queens Park.

If Dundee can stay within touching distance we can go in to the final fixture fairly confident as Dundee have had Queen's Park number this season, 3 wins an 1 draw.

[johnnydun]

3 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I don't think we've had a squad that could win ever week 'months ago' until the end of the season.

If we win say, 6 out of our next 8, I still think we win the league. Huge ask but with 4 of the next 5 being at Dens and the other at Gayfield, it's not impossible.

We had a better squad months ago imo. We had Gowser, French and Rudden to choose from. We have zero options to switch up front.

[Ludo*1]

Just now, DeeTillEhDeh said:

We've not been consistent enough to do that though.

We were in December.

No team is consistent in this league and QP have to go away to Raith, Partick, Ayr & Morton.

If we win on Tuesday (our game in hand) and beat them in the final league game, then we just need to be one game more consistent than them whilst we play Hamilton, Raith, Morton at home (sandwiched with Arbroath away).

We've also still to play Cove again at Dens who now very much look like the whipping boys in the league.

It's bleak, I grant you that, and our performances haven't shown up to much, I'll also agree there but I don't think QP are any great shakes, I think they'll also drop points and we have a much more favourable run in.

If at the end of the season, we've not won the league, I'd have to probably agree that we should be looking elsewhere for a manager.

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, johnnydun said:

We had a better squad months ago imo. We had Gowser, French and Rudden to choose from. We have zero options to switch up front.

McGowan, I'll grant you, horrific decision IMO.

French - not much we can do about that. Very good signing by Bowyer and look forward to him being back next season.

Rudden offers absolutely nothing though. Robinson does everything Rudden does, but better. Rudden would be absolutely lost in this set-up that's designed for Kwame considering he can barely even hold the ball up. I think any striker - bar Kwame (and just because he's a battering ram rather than good) will be hung out to dry in this system.

I think Bowyer's biggest flaw is watching Jakubiak play on the left wing, link up well with Robinson and watch them absolutely murder QP at Dens and then never have them on the pitch at the same time again in the following 8 games. That and the decision to punt Gowser are the two biggest black marks against Bowyer's name for me and McGhee being deployed at CM being a slightly lesser third.

[Shadow Play]

18 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Whatever happens this season, I'm starting to think Bowyer isn't the right guy for us.

Could be worse we could have Hartley as our manager.  No offence to those who still rate him as a manager.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

McGowan, I'll grant you, horrific decision IMO.

French - not much we can do about that. Very good signing by Bowyer and look forward to him being back next season.

Rudden offers absolutely nothing though. Robinson does everything Rudden does, but better. Rudden would be absolutely lost in this set-up that's designed for Kwame considering he can barely even hold the ball up. I think any striker - bar Kwame (and just because he's a battering ram rather than good) will be hung out to dry in this system.

I think Bowyer's biggest flaw is watching Jakubiak play on the left wing, link up well with Robinson and watch them absolutely murder QP at Dens and then never have them on the pitch at the same time again in the following 8 games. That and the decision to punt Gowser are the two biggest black marks against Bowyer's name for me and McGhee being deployed at CM being a slightly lesser third.

The lack of a Jakubiak-Robinson link up is the one that's absolutely boiling my pish.

[Derry Alli]

It should be written in to every managerial contract of Dundee FC that playing one up front will see you immediately relieved of your duties at games end.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

3 minutes ago, Derry Alli said:

It should be written in to every managerial contract of Dundee FC that playing one up front will see you immediately relieved of your duties at games end.

Morton and Thistle have both shown that if you get in our faces it just does not work.

 

[johnnydun]

4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

McGowan, I'll grant you, horrific decision IMO.

French - not much we can do about that. Very good signing by Bowyer and look forward to him being back next season.

Rudden offers absolutely nothing though. Robinson does everything Rudden does, but better. Rudden would be absolutely lost in this set-up that's designed for Kwame considering he can barely even hold the ball up. I think any striker - bar Kwame (and just because he's a battering ram rather than good) will be hung out to dry in this system.

I think Bowyer's biggest flaw is watching Jakubiak play on the left wing, link up well with Robinson and watch them absolutely murder QP at Dens and then never have them on the pitch at the same time again in the following 8 games. That and the decision to punt Gowser are the two biggest black marks against Bowyer's name for me and McGhee being deployed at CM being a slightly lesser third.

Shows you how much of good signing Kwame is, I forgot all about him, just another pish signing from Bowyer. Rudden was pretty poor but gave us another option I guess.

If those are your black marks, what are his pass marks, because I am struggling to see any.

[johnnydun]

12 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

We were in December.

No team is consistent in this league and QP have to go away to Raith, Partick, Ayr & Morton.

If we win on Tuesday (our game in hand) and beat them in the final league game, then we just need to be one game more consistent than them whilst we play Hamilton, Raith, Morton at home (sandwiched with Arbroath away).

We've also still to play Cove again at Dens who now very much look like the whipping boys in the league.

It's bleak, I grant you that, and our performances haven't shown up to much, I'll also agree there but I don't think QP are any great shakes, I think they'll also drop points and we have a much more favourable run in.

If at the end of the season, we've not won the league, I'd have to probably agree that we should be looking elsewhere for a manager.

The current form table suggests that these fixtures should not be seen as easier for us..

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

Absolute fucking shite today, don't think the Partick keeper had a single save to make, too much respect shown to them and far too defensive.

No use Bowyer, and not good enough. IMO.

Thank you.

[Ludo*1]

6 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Shows you how much of good signing Kwame is, I forgot all about him, just another pish signing from Bowyer. Rudden was pretty poor but gave us another option I guess.

If those are your black marks, what are his pass marks, because I am struggling to see any.

Currently:

Best defence in the league despite having absolute cloggers at the back and not one of our defenders would singularly get into a 'Team of the League' team.

His one permanent signing has proven to be a very good one in French which bodes well for a rebuild if we go up rather than scrounging the basement market with shite loan deals.

Still has us in contention - even if it's looking bleak - with a squad that we've known for about 3 seasons, is full of shite. People always point to - but this team got promoted before!!! - but fail to mention that was because we had Charlie Adam dragging us kicking and screaming to 2nd place on the final day of the season last time round. Always going to be an absolute slog.

I agree, if he doesn't get us up then it'd probably be too toxic to give him another go at it and we should look elsewhere though.

 

 

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

Let's be honest here, if he can't win this tinpot league outright, then he needs to fucking chuck it. IMO.

[johnnydun]

1 minute ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said:

Let's be honest here, if he can't win this tinpot league outright, then he needs to fucking chuck it. IMO.

Yeah, on paper, this should've been the most comfortable Championship for us in years. 

[Boo Khaki]

It's not really 'one up front' when McMullan is usually as far forward as Robinson, it's a problem rooted in a lack of cohesion. We have nothing in the middle of the park at all, so it's difficult for us to keep possession and compress the play up the pitch when we have it, so McMullan's preference for playing wide anyway means he never bothers actually going that close to the central guy and whoever is up there ends up isolated and chasing speculative punts, or if the clearance is wide rather than central it's McMullan himself doing the chasing. And yes, we miss Thomas even though he's a big donkey, because Robinson clearly isn't cut out for playing the same role.

When we do finally get the ball up the pitch and keep it there the isolation up front is less obvious, but just playing another striker closer to the central guy is not going to solve the problem of having a powderpuff midfield that can't grab control of a match. It would probably make it slightly easier to do something with it once we do get it and play it forward, but it's not going to magically remedy all the problems with this system. Our midfield stinks to high heaven. That's a more fundamental problem for me than whether or not it's two proper forwards or one + a supporting player, because we're also hilariously easy to play through and run over the top of unless the entire midfield collapses back onto the edge of the box, and it's the back four and midfield having to defend as practically one solid line that is leading to a lack of outlets when we win the ball and totally isolated forwards.

I totally agree with playing Jak and Robinson together because it's clear that what GB is currently doing isn't producing any success, but I can't see that miraculously turning around the results and performances while GB persists on playing only one true CM in the middle of the park. The fact he then doubles down by playing Max Anderson in there when he's subbed on is infuriating when we have natural CM's sitting on the bench and out on loan in League One. And also, McMullan is far more effective a player when he starts from deeper positions anyway rather than trying to support a striker, so even if GB wants to persist with doing everything exactly the same way McMullan isn't even the correct player to be doing that with.

It's a fucking mess, and it isn't going to turn around overnight without some radical changes and I just don't see that happening. We've all been saying pretty much the same thing since Jan/Feb when the 'McGhee in midfield and f**k everything else' nonsense started and it's been a constant theme ever since, so I don't see GB changing it for Tuesday. Hard not to feel that the team as a whole is somewhat less than it could be and that being entirely due to GB's own decisions, not injuries or illnesses forcing his hand.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Boo Khaki

[johnnydun]

At least we are not trying to sell over priced season tickets right now to watch this utter pish eh?