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Has the league finished?
Just because I think there are very pertinent reasons unrelated to Bowyer for us being shit doesn't mean I agree with every decision he makes.
Think it's laughable to be trying to write a manager off as a 'failure' after 13 games without his own squad though.
There's only so far you can take the "it's McPake's fault" excuse.

Bowyer's signed 5 players and ultimately he is the person picking the team and deciding the tactics. You have to question after 13 games why he still doesn't seem to have a clear first choice eleven and why he persists with the same players in certain positions who week after week are either giving away goals or contributing little to the team. Why are Sweeney, Rudden, Sheridan and Kerr still in this team?

You also have to look at other teams in this league - we have the deepest squad and despite being shite McPake signings some of the players are still better than other teams in the League.

Why is it that other managers manage to get a tune out of lesser players but we don't? That's down to man management and building confidence - something we seem to seriously lack right now.

No - I'm not calling for his head right now - he needs to be given to at least January to see if there is progress - but at the moment there are very few signs that any progress has been made.

That's worrying.
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The mid 80's is when I remember my first Dundee game.
It has been chancer after clown in the boardroom but Keyes and Nelms have brought a financial stability to the club that has not been seen in my lifetime. They came in to have a slow turn around and build a profitable venue and club, they said this from the start. Give Keyes his due, he has put cash up for managers to spend but unfortunately it has been the wrong managers. Nelms has tried to rectify this by bringing in a DOF in Strachan, and if you go by Strachan's history, on paper to a newbie to Scottish football, it would look like a sensible appointment.
I would agree with you that at this current point in time, the Yo-yo club is our level, but with the youth system starting to show signs of fruition and new infrastructure on its way (this is 100% happening) I think we have a bright future ahead of us.
I think we have suffered a lot as a support, but if we are just patient that wee bit longer, things will come good.
Having a DoF makes sense but for the reality that Strachan is a neanderthal when it comes to modern football.
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12 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Has the league finished?

Just because I think there are very pertinent reasons unrelated to Bowyer for us being shit doesn't mean I agree with every decision he makes.

Think it's laughable to be trying to write a manager off as a 'failure' after 13 games without his own squad though.

I don’t think you were aiming this at me but just to clarify my position.  I’m not calling for Bowyer’s departure but we need to see things starting to improve.

After the transfer window shut Bowyer’s demeanour appeared to change.  I think he was bitterly disappointed with the lack of new signings.  I also think Bowyer’s apparent despondent attitude filtered through to the squad.  That is something Bowyer should have avoided. 

Any expected budget for signings  is something that should have been sorted out at the time of Bowyer joining the club.   We are left wondering who has let who down.

On the subject of signings I am looking for people who know the system better than me to answer this.  Is it possible that Bowyer knows the lower leagues of English football well enough but he can’t persuade them to come to Dundee due to the fact the wages and expenses being offered aren’t sufficient?

Let me explain.  If you want to sign a player who currently lives in the populated areas of Scotland they can continue to live where they currently do and commute each day.  If you are coming from England you would have to uproot your family / have the expense of finding a new house.  To do that you would presumably be looking for significantly more money.  Is that proving to be a stumbling block?

Partick next week is a massive game.  Let’s all get behind the team and see where that takes us. 

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Surprised there's not been one mention of Kerrs defending for Queens second goal but that's Dundee fans all over. 

Used to laugh when people would hone in on Charlie Adam after poor results whilst Kerr dilly dallied and contributed little in the same matches. The managers seem to have the same footballing intelligence as many of the Dundee fans when it comes to Kerr. Sick to death of it and have been for the last decade.

Thank you.

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Yo-yo club or not, the manner in which we are shipping goals, often against part time opposition is completely unacceptable IMO.

Anyone that thinks there has been any real progress under bowyer is on the wine. The league is utter dross and we are woefully underperforming even with the squad of McPakes duds. 

We certainly don’t look like a team capable of challenging for the title at this stage which I thought would be the minimum requirement for this season.
 

 

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1 hour ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said:

Would say we need a minimum of three signings in January, a left back, a right back and a striker. Anything else?

Thank you.

French covers right back for me. Agree with the other 2. 
 

Any upgrade in any position would be beneficial as well. Bowyer gives me the fear if he’s to chop and change in January going on his previous signings for us. 

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Just now, Yenitit said:

French covers right back for me. Agree with the other 2. 
 

Any upgrade in any position would be beneficial as well. Bowyer gives me the fear if he’s to chop and change in January going on his previous signings for us. 

Said it for ages now, you are all probably sick hearing it, Bowyer underestimates Scottish Football.

Ayr United get a player on loan from Aston Villa, while we get a loan from Barrow.

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1 hour ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

Surprised there's not been one mention of Kerrs defending for Queens second goal but that's Dundee fans all over. 

 

I let all my anger about it out in a group chat on Friday night. It was horrific losing his man like that.

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2 minutes ago, K.T said:

I let all my anger about it out in a group chat on Friday night. It was horrific losing his man like that.

Ashcroft was fucking awful too. There's absolutely no requirement as a CH to be touch tight nearly on the corner of your own 18 yard box against a player who is facing away from goal. 

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4 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

There's only so far you can take the "it's McPake's fault" excuse.

Bowyer's signed 5 players and ultimately he is the person picking the team and deciding the tactics. You have to question after 13 games why he still doesn't seem to have a clear first choice eleven and why he persists with the same players in certain positions who week after week are either giving away goals or contributing little to the team. Why are Sweeney, Rudden, Sheridan and Kerr still in this team?

You also have to look at other teams in this league - we have the deepest squad and despite being shite McPake signings some of the players are still better than other teams in the League.

Why is it that other managers manage to get a tune out of lesser players but we don't? That's down to man management and building confidence - something we seem to seriously lack right now.

No - I'm not calling for his head right now - he needs to be given to at least January to see if there is progress - but at the moment there are very few signs that any progress has been made.

That's worrying.

Firstly, it's not an excuse. It's his team.

Last time we were in this division we had Jason Cummings and Charlie Adam in the side and looking at that season we still conceded 3 goals to the likes of Alloa, Dunfermline, QotS, Ayr & of course, shipped 6 to Hearts. That season, in a 27 game league campaign, we failed to take 3 points in 15 of those games. We had the third worst goals conceded record in that division that year. We then got humilated for a season in the top flight.

Why do people think a new manager will suddenly make these players into a side that can scoosh this league? We finished 2 points ahead of Raith in that shortened season. We've pretty much got the same side minus a creative genius in Adam and a natural finisher in Cummings. Boggles my mind how after 13 games people think Bowyer should be working miracles.

You ask:

Quote

Why are Sweeney, Rudden, Sheridan and Kerr still in this team?
 

So you expect us to play Zach Robinson for 90 minutes every single game up top on his own?

But to answer your question more thoroughly, that's 3 players McPake signed.

Quote

You have to question after 13 games why he still doesn't seem to have a clear first choice eleven

Is it not because our squad is full of utter shite and he's basically rearranging the deckchairs?

Quote

Bowyer's signed 5 players

A loan from Barrow Reserves, a loan from Rangers' youth academy, a loan from AFC Wimbledon's youth academy, a player that wasn't getting a game for Wrexham & a player that didn't have a team 3-4 month into the season. You just have to look at the press conference after the deadline shut - Bowyer looked a defeated man as @Shadow Play pointed out. It's clear he doesn't rate the squad. He even said he wanted about 4 in that week and he had lined them up - we as in Nelms - failed to get them across the line.

Quote


You also have to look at other teams in this league - we have the deepest squad and despite being shite McPake signings some of the players are still better than other teams in the League.
 

Key word being some. I think Paul McMullan, Paul McGowan & Tyler French would probably get into everyone else's starting 11. The rest? Debateable.

I'd argue that Morton have better full backs( Strapp & Grimshaw vs Marshall & Kerr) and that Jack Baird is at least on par if not better than Ashcroft & Sweeney and that's just one example.  Ayr's Akinyemi is better than anything we have up front. They've also got Musonda who I'd say is probably the best defender in the league.  Hell, even QP the other night. I'd at least have Ferrie ahead of Lawlor who started the other night and Murray ahead of our strikers and I think they two are Championship level at best. Arbroath haven't got the best out of him yet, but Scott Allan is better than any of our midfielders, Tam O'Brien is better than any of our CH's and Bobby Linn would stroll into our team even at the age he is.

You're correct when you say we've got the deepest squad, but the best? Lot of our players rely on past glories and the glories are pish at that such as Rudden being second top scorer at Christmas for Partick Thistle.

Of course there's major black marks against Bowyer such as his continual deployment of McGhee in CM, but in the grand scheme of things he's got a pretty shite deck of cards to play with.

 

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Another thing - those mocking Bowyer's record.

Gary Bowyer's record in England:

Blackburn - 34.7%WR

Blackpool - 36.5%WR (and a promotion)

Bradford - 29.2%WR

Salford - 42.8%WR (including his interim spell)

 

Compare that to Steve Clarke (taking away his time in the EPL):

Reading - 35.8%

 

Compare it to Lee Johnson who currently has Hibs 3rd in the top flight:

Oldham - 35%WR

Barnsley - 39.2%WR

Bristol City - 38.7%WR

Sunderland - 51.3%

 

Compare it to Stephen Robinson who consistently got Motherwell into Europe and currently has St Mirren in the top 6:

Oldham - 21.2%WR

Morecambe - 25%WR

 

 

Practically indistinguishable. Yet people are using it as a stick to beat Bowyer with? Unreal.

Bowyer might yet prove to be an utter dud and there are some small but nonetheless worrying signs, but the way people are going out to find things to just rubbish him after 13 games with James McPake's squad is a poor show IMO.

Edited by Ludo*1
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20 hours ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

Surprised there's not been one mention of Kerrs defending for Queens second goal but that's Dundee fans all over. 

Used to laugh when people would hone in on Charlie Adam after poor results whilst Kerr dilly dallied and contributed little in the same matches. The managers seem to have the same footballing intelligence as many of the Dundee fans when it comes to Kerr. Sick to death of it and have been for the last decade.

Thank you.

Kerr is absolutely pish and the fact he has been a regular in our team for years now sums us up.

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