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8 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

When you employ a manager whose entire career screams mediocrity, why is anyone surprised when the result is mediocre?
Another season written off, another year closer to death.

You say that but who is going to win this league?

Ayr were no better than us the other week, Morten were embarrassing at Dens and it was only because of more defensively shambolic moments we conceded last night against another team above us. 

This league is full of shite and throwing the towel in now is a bit tragic. Until we get to January we're going to be plagued with this defence but if we can sort it we can win this league.  Results elsewhere are aiding that case at the minute aswell. 

Anyway, that's enough from me this morning i'm off to get pished. The benefits of Friday night football you can get the disappointment out the way and move on. 

Thank you. 

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I don’t think anyone would disagree that the only reason McPake got us promoted was he had the great fortune of Charlie Adam coming to the end of his career and wanting to play for his hometown club.  Without Adam that team was not getting promoted.

Without doubt the team that got relegated needed strengthening.  Bowyer has brought in:

Williamson - nowhere near good enough.  Technically gifted but not up for it.  Better than McGinn? - NO

Grayson - truly dreadful.  A player who likes to admire his own passes but not up for it.  Better than Byrne? - NO - not even close

French - quick and athletic and also appears up for it.  Better than our existing centre halves / full backs? - YES - massive improvement 

Robinson - raw but looks like there something about him.  Also appears up for it?  Better than existing strikers?  - YES

Byrne and McGinn are going nowhere.  They can’t move on from us because they are still too busy still  laughing at the deals Nelms gave them - and I don’t blame them.

Unless there is something in their contracts about a certain number of games triggering a contract extension or their win / play bonus is as equally ridiculous as their basic pay then Bowyer should send Grayson and Williamson back to their parent club and utilise Byrne and McGinn.  That would hopefully free up money for at least one player in the January window.

I have to say Bowyer looks like a manager who is confused and out his depth already.  Yes he is a good talker but he is just not translating that into performances (that reminds me I’ve not heard much from Neil McCann lately).   I don’t think Bowyer has a clear strategy to improve things.  In fact the longer he is here the less I understand his thinking.

Over a third of the way through the season and in the bottom half of the league is nowhere near good enough.  If there was a team in this league that was even half decent the title would have just about been sewn up already.
 

 

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5 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Decent pedigree?

Seriously?

His win %s as a permanent manager are:

Blackburn - 34.7%
Blackpool - 36.5%
Bradford - 29.2%
Salford - 40.4%

And those are all matches not just league games.

At Salford he had cash to splash and they didn't even reach the playoffs.

I genuinely don't see anything inspirational in the appointment so far. Apart from being able to roll over seaside league teams in the League Cup, decent performances in the league have been too few and far between.

Fans could accept if he was losing but making progress but I'm struggling to see where - the chopping and changing of the team, the playing of players like Sweeney, Rudden and Sheridan, and Christ knows what he sees in Grayson, tells me he has either underestimated the game in Scotland or really isn't that good a manager.


 

He got Blackpool promoted when they were an absolute basket case and is well loved by their fans.

Same with Blackburn, well respected at them as he took over when  they looked like they were destined for oblivion and steadied them.

Salford fans were disappointed he was sacked as well looking at their forum but they seem to have a sacking culture these days.

Only club that genuinely didn't like him as manager was Blackburn.

So yes, a very decent pedigree especially in comparison to the likes of Thomson and Adam.

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The very last position we needed strengthened in the summer was the midfield, yet he brings in 2 that imo are worse players then Gowser, Anderson, Byrne and Mulligan. An absolute waste of our budget. We were screaming out for a keeper (whilst binning Legzdins and Lawlor), a left back whether the defensively abject Marshall remained or not, a centrehalf and 2 strikers. 

A decent manager still has us winning this league despite being hamstrung by McPake’s signings. 
 

Bowyer has massively underestimated our league and is taking us for idiots if he’s describing Grayson’s left foot as a wand.

A formation of 4-2-3-1 with the following players wins us the league  

Legzdins 

French, Ashcroft, McGhee, new left back,

Byrne, Gowser 

McMullan, Mulligan, McCowan,

Robinson  

Subs to be used very regularly Anderson, Jakubiak, Cameron, McGinn and Osei. With the rest of the bench being made up with Sweeney, Kerr and Sharp.

Open to Anderson starting instead of Gowser and Jakubiak for Robinson who I’m still not 100% convinced by. Holds the ball up well but not much else so far but he’s being isolated by such a negative manager with his defensive midfield. 

Edited to say and return Williamson and Grayson to their parent clubs. Use the freed up cash and the Ibrox cup money to strengthen the squad in January.

Bowyer’s only positive is the signing of Tyler French. He’s been very good and our player of the year so far. 

Edited by Yenitit
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Take from @DeeTillEhDeh Bowyer’s win %s as a permanent manager are:

Blackburn - 34.7%
Blackpool - 36.5%
Bradford - 29.2%
Salford - 40.4%

So far this season in the league and both cups, by my rough calculations, his win percentage is 55%.  In other words he’s never experienced such a successful period as a manager - at least as far as raw stats are concerned.

Ignoring the cups where we played a few teams even lower in the league system than us his win percentage is 38.46%.  Higher than Blackburn, Blackpool and Bradford.

Maybe he really is just a bang average manager and what we have seen already is roughly where he gets his team to with every club he manages.  That’s a frightening thought!

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You say that but who is going to win this league?
Ayr were no better than us the other week, Morten were embarrassing at Dens and it was only because of more defensively shambolic moments we conceded last night against another team above us. 
This league is full of shite and throwing the towel in now is a bit tragic. Until we get to January we're going to be plagued with this defence but if we can sort it we can win this league.  Results elsewhere are aiding that case at the minute aswell. 
Anyway, that's enough from me this morning i'm off to get pished. The benefits of Friday night football you can get the disappointment out the way and move on. 
Thank you. 

For me the most embarrassing team on the park v Morten were us.
I’ve zero faith January will be our saviour.
Most teams we play are first and foremost better organised than us. We prefer tombola selections.
Anybody who starts Rudden is clearly clueless. He’s absolutely honking.
Bowyer out.
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I completely understand the decision to sign Williamson. A cheap (if not freebie) signing to replace Byrne's supposed huge wage so we could bolster elsewhere in the team. The fact he's been a huge disappointment is neither here nor there.

Bowyer is friends with Billy Kirkwood who likely told him that Williamson is one of the most promising youths at Rangers and we could take him on loan for a pittance and he has the ability to do the same job as Byrne. It's a no brainer. It's clearly not working out as intended but I get the logic behind it.

As for getting a new keeper, I think Sharp, Legzdins and Lawlor are all serviceable enough with Legzdins being the best of the 3. Too much hassle to be punting Legzdins and Lawlor and then sourcing another keeper when there's much, much bigger issues in the squad. Although, I did think we should have tried to offload Lawlor and just run with Legzdins and Sharp - thankfully we didn't in retrospect.

I also don't think Grayson is as bad as is being made out. He can be completely anonymous (as can Byrne at times btw) but I think he's suffering from being in a terrible pairing more than anything. 

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4 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Wow. If those figures are correct those must’ve been miserable ones for those clubs. 
 

I’d like to know the loss percentage. Higher than 33% and you aren’t winning this league. 68 points wins this league. 

By my calculations* in the league it is 30.77%

*my son got an A in Higher Maths - I definitely didn’t 🤣

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Take from [mention=22650]DeeTillEhDeh[/mention] Bowyer’s win %s as a permanent manager are:

Blackburn - 34.7%
Blackpool - 36.5%
Bradford - 29.2%
Salford - 40.4%
So far this season in the league and both cups, by my rough calculations, his win percentage is 55%.  In other words he’s never experienced such a successful period as a manager - at least as far as raw stats are concerned.
Ignoring the cups where we played a few teams even lower in the league system than us his win percentage is 38.46%.  Higher than Blackburn, Blackpool and Bradford.
Maybe he really is just a bang average manager and what we have seen already is roughly where he gets his team to with every club he manages.  That’s a frightening thought!

Those stats are a complete joke. They completely scream ‘I’m pish’.
This league is particularly shite this season, with a half decent manager we win this at a canter. It’s obvious, no discussion required.
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21 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I completely understand the decision to sign Williamson. A cheap (if not freebie) signing to replace Byrne's supposed huge wage so we could bolster elsewhere in the team. The fact he's been a huge disappointment is neither here nor there.

Bowyer is friends with Billy Kirkwood who likely told him that Williamson is one of the most promising youths at Rangers and we could take him on loan for a pittance and he has the ability to do the same job as Byrne. It's a no brainer. It's clearly not working out as intended but I get the logic behind it.

As for getting a new keeper, I think Sharp, Legzdins and Lawlor are all serviceable enough with Legzdins being the best of the 3. Too much hassle to be punting Legzdins and Lawlor and then sourcing another keeper when there's much, much bigger issues in the squad. Although, I did think we should have tried to offload Lawlor and just run with Legzdins and Sharp - thankfully we didn't in retrospect.

I also don't think Grayson is as bad as is being made out. He can be completely anonymous (as can Byrne at times btw) but I think he's suffering from being in a terrible pairing more than anything. 

Ludo you can’t say it’s neither hear nor there that Williamson is a huge disappointment or not. It’s for the manager to do his homework on the player. Warning signs should’ve been he couldn’t get a game at Livingston. He played the league cup section with Byrne anchoring the midfield with 4 in front of him pushed high up the park and it was working. Gives it half an hour of the 1st league game of the season and bins it after a deflected goal and a horrendous error from Sweeney that you can’t legislate for. Bowyer’s shat it imo and gone defensive. 
 

Agreed about the keeper’s but they needed improved on and 100% and new keeper that starts week in week out. 
 

Grayson is a nothing player imo and behind Byrne, Gowser, Anderson, Mulligan and Robertson imo. I just don’t rate him at all. Very good debut but pish since. Being completely anonymous isn’t anywhere near acceptable. Byrne at least took the ball from the centre backs and started to build the play from there. A good coach should be coaching Byrne to be more forward thinking as soon as he receives the ball rather than replacing him. What do you think of the line up and formation I suggested?

Edited by Yenitit
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2 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

By my calculations* in the league it is 30.77%

*my son got an A in Higher Maths - I definitely didn’t 🤣

That probably leaves 28 games to get 20 wins and 8 draws. That leaves us currently needing 15 wins and 4 draws from from 23 games to win the league. Bowyer isn’t doing that. 

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39 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Ludo you can’t say it’s neither hear nor there that Williamson is a huge disappointment or not. It’s for the manager to do his homework on the player. Warning signs should’ve been he couldn’t get a game at Livingston. He played the league cup section with Byrne anchoring the midfield with 4 in front of him pushed high up the park and it was working. Gives it half an hour of the 1st league game of the season and bins it after a deflected goal and a horrendous error from Sweeney that you can’t legislate for. Bowyer’s shat it imo and gone defensive. 
 

Agreed about the keeper’s but they needed improved on and 100% and new keeper that starts week in week out. 
 

Grayson is a nothing player imo and behind Byrne, Gowser, Anderson, Mulligan and Robertson imo. I just don’t rate him at all. Very good debut but pish since. Being completely anonymous isn’t anywhere near acceptable. Byrne at least took the ball from the centre backs and started to build the play from there. A good coach should be coaching Byrne to be more forward thinking as soon as he receives the ball rather than replacing him. What do you think of the line up and formation I suggested?

I can because not every signing is going to work out. On paper, Williamson made sense. He's excelled at this level before and is just a young lad. Whether we like it or not, performances in the top flight for a well oiled team like Livi who have more often or not been in the top 6 the past few seasons isn't really comparable to how he'd do here. Don't disagree with Bowyer shitting it on the first day of the season though.

I feel like I'm always defending Legzdins but I just think he's a decent enough keeper. I think if we were to compare individual goalkeepers, I'd say Legzdins is probably in the top 2-3 keepers in this league if he's not the best. Would need to check who everyone has though but I don't think I'd be swapping him with too many.

I have to say, I think Byrne is the exact same and goes anonymous for huge chunks of the season. I like him because I've seen how good he can be but often he offers absolutely nothing and I think (not necessarily by you) but he's getting rated higher every single game he misses. 

I also have to say that I think Mulligan has largely been awful this season and certainly no better than Grayson. We know there's a player there but he's not shown it. Anderson and Robertson deserve another go in the side, I agree but it'd be at the expense of McGhee opposed to Grayson for me at the moment.

As far as formations and line ups go, yours does look good but I have to come back to the fact that it is basic individual mistakes that have cost us time and time again over the past 3 seasons.

If Rudden scores that one on one last night instead of running straight into the keeper and Sweeney/Cammy don't shit the bed and clear the ball off the opposition and it goes straight in, then it's a different game and as dire as it was, the formation would have been seen to have worked. As fucking always seems to be the case, the team absolutely shite the bed as soon as the opposition score and there's never any signs of recovery. Before QP scored the first, I felt we were on top.

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50 minutes ago, Fifespud said:


Those stats are a complete joke. They completely scream ‘I’m pish’.
This league is particularly shite this season, with a half decent manager we win this at a canter. It’s obvious, no discussion required.

You've been choking to have the pitchforks out since the day he arrived.

Wednesday night you were quoted as saying you're not calling for his head and one game later you're baying for blood. Fs.

 

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You've been choking to have the pitchforks out since the day he arrived.
Wednesday night you were quoted as saying you're not calling for his head and one game later you're baying for blood. Fs.
 

I just put ‘Bowyer out’ because I knew you’d bite!!

Your loyalty has to be admired Ludo, exemplary, but this guy ain’t moving my gauge. How long will you give him?

A decent manager has us out of sight in this shit show of a league. I’d far rather we took a punt on a Kevin Thompson type, who might be good, than a total non entity, whose record is pish and who turns out to be, well, pish.
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4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Partick Thistle getting pumped as it stands. 2-0 down before HT.

2 more Raith goals and we go to 7th. With Ayr drawing with Arbroath, we're 3 points off the top.

What a league.

Partick look an utter mess right now, next week could be fascinating.

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5 minutes ago, Fifespud said:


I just put ‘Bowyer out’ because I knew you’d bite!!

Your loyalty has to be admired Ludo, exemplary, but this guy ain’t moving my gauge. How long will you give him?

A decent manager has us out of sight in this shit show of a league. I’d far rather we took a punt on a Kevin Thompson type, who might be good, than a total non entity, whose record is pish and who turns out to be, well, pish.

I'll give him the season provided he gets rid of the shite. Longer if not.

As previously mentioned, Bowyer's record is far from shite. It's not amazing but it's certainly not another James McPake-esque punt like Kevin Thomson would be which is exactly why we are in this mess.

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6 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

2 more Raith goals and we go to 7th. With Ayr drawing with Arbroath, we're 3 points off the top.

What a league.

Partick look an utter mess right now, next week could be fascinating.

Without Kevin Holt they just seem to have crumbled.

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I'll give him the season provided he gets rid of the shite. Longer if not.
As previously mentioned, Bowyer's record is far from shite. It's not amazing but it's certainly not another James McPake-esque punt like Kevin Thomson would be which is exactly why we are in this mess.

Kevin Thomson with a 61% win record?
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