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9 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

No excuse whatsoever for that line up and tactics today. Again may I add. 

Think the tactics were meant to be the same as the second half against Ayr.

Just too many players had off days.

Only questionable choices in the line-up, for me, was Marshall at LW and Williamson. But with options limited when it came to wide options, I thought it was worth a punt to have Marshall out wide and to be fair to him, he was far from a disgrace! Williamson was rotten right enough.

ETA:

Just noticed you edited your post. Agree about McGowan and Cameron.

For me, Mulligan just isn't cutting it just now (clear he has the ability but not showing it) and his place deserves to go to one of Cameron or McGowan.

Edited by Ludo*1
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3 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I think Robinson and French are class acts and both improve our starting 11.

Grayson is decent for a loan deal but he's just a steady eddie type. Doesn't add a great deal.

Williamson is proving to be the flop of the 4.

Not a bad strike rate from 1 permanent signing and 3 loans to be fair!

Robinson improves our starting 11 because he only has to be better than Sheridan or Rudden. Not difficult tbh.

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4 minutes ago, K.T said:

Pretty sure we should’ve had a penalty today but there were two guys in the Bobby Cox trying to beat the shit out of each other at the time so my attention was not quite on the pitch lol 

I take it the fight was the highlight of the game!

2 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I think Robinson and French are class acts and both improve our starting 11.

Grayson is decent for a loan deal but he's just a steady eddie type. Doesn't add a great deal.

Williamson is proving to be the flop of the 4.

Not a bad strike rate from 1 permanent signing and 3 loans to be fair!

Are you not worried about his starting 11, subs during the game, picking loan players over the benefit of our own young players who are every bit as good or better than the loans and marginalising players. The treatment of Byrne isn’t right imo. 

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1 minute ago, johnnydun said:

Robinson improves our starting 11 because he only has to be better than Sheridan or Rudden. Not difficult tbh.

But crucially, he is better than them and good at holding the ball up. I'd be signing him permanently if we could.

He's better than anything we've had up top for a good couple of seasons IMO.

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4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Think the tactics were meant to be the same as the second half against Ayr.

Just too many players had off days.

Only questionable choices in the line-up, for me, was Marshall at LW and Williamson. But with options limited when it came to wide options, I thought it was worth a punt to have Marshall out wide and to be fair to him, he was far from a disgrace! Williamson was rotten right enough.

ETA:

Just noticed you edited your post. Agree about McGowan and Cameron.

For me, Mulligan just isn't cutting it just now (clear he has the ability but not showing it) and his place deserves to go to one of Cameron 

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Just now, Ludo*1 said:

But crucially, he is better than them and good at holding the ball up. I'd be signing him permanently if we could.

He's better than anything we've had up top for a good couple of seasons IMO.

Nah, can't get on board with this Ludo.

Robinson being good at holding the ball up is a myth imo. He only ever makes an attempt to get the ball if it is right at him.

Better than Cummings? 

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1 minute ago, Yenitit said:

I take it the fight was the highlight of the game!

Are you not worried about his starting 11, subs during the game, picking loan players over the benefit of our own young players who are every bit as good or better than the loans and marginalising players. The treatment of Byrne isn’t right imo. 

What treatment of Byrne?

He tried to get Byrne off the wage budget but couldn't. Byrne was then injured and after that had been getting a spot on the bench before being part of the group that got ill. 

I'm not particularly worried and if honest, expected this type of season since we still have a McPake 11.

Am I worried about Robinson getting a game ahead of Rudden? No.

Am I worried about Williamson getting a game ahead of Robertson or Anderson? Not really. They're all much of a muchness.

I am worried about Cameron playing well then struggling to get a sniff in the team though and McGowan being dropped like a stone.

Bowyer is definitely a flawed manager. Far too cautious for a team that needs to be going all out but think it's clear he doesn't rate many in the squad at all. With time, I reckon he could build us into a decent outfit. No point getting overly upset when it's still McPake's squad he's got and I think that in itself explains why he feels the need to tinker.

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1 minute ago, johnnydun said:

Nah, can't get on board with this Ludo.

Robinson being good at holding the ball up is a myth imo. He only ever makes an attempt to get the ball if it is right at him.

Better than Cummings? 

As a goalscorer, obviously not. As a team player that contributes to the side, I'd have had Robinson in last season's team before Cummings in terms of the style we went with.

Ironically, I reckon they'd be a perfect partnership.

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6 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

As a goalscorer, obviously not. As a team player that contributes to the side, I'd have had Robinson in last season's team before Cummings in terms of the style we went with.

Ironically, I reckon they'd be a perfect partnership.

But that's the issue, we need a goal scoring striker. We don't have one, I'm not even sure what type of striker Robinson is meant to be. He doesn't chase anything down, he doesn't set anything up, he just waits. I hope there's more to come from him, but I'm struggling to see what he offers.

Edited by johnnydun
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1 minute ago, johnnydun said:

But that's the issue, we need a goal scoring striker. We don't have one, I'm not even sure what type of striker Robinson is meant to be. He doesn't chase anything down, he doesn't set anything up, he just waits. I hope there's more to come from him, but I'm struggling to see what he offers.

Fair enough Johnny. I think Robinson is a top talent personally but do completely agree we need a scorer in the side.

Rudden has that in him as he has proven in the past (and in his goals per minute record this season). But he just looks utterly shite so it's hard to get behind him and back him to be that man.

Big January.

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15 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Nah, can't get on board with this Ludo.

Robinson being good at holding the ball up is a myth imo. He only ever makes an attempt to get the ball if it is right at him.

Better than Cummings? 

He plucked the ball out the air on a six pence about ten times today, how can you say his hold up play isn't good? If he's running onto balls put in behind or hunting down defenders that isn't hold up play.

He was excellent today but had absolutely nothing around him. A big part of our inconsistency this season is the isolation of whoever is upfront. Bowyer has to sort it out ASAP. Robinson is good enough to be part of a team that gets promoted out this division.

As for Grayson he played well against Ayr last week and should have been starting today ahead of Williamson.

Thank you.

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44 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

What treatment of Byrne?

He tried to get Byrne off the wage budget but couldn't. Byrne was then injured and after that had been getting a spot on the bench before being part of the group that got ill. 

I'm not particularly worried and if honest, expected this type of season since we still have a McPake 11.

Am I worried about Robinson getting a game ahead of Rudden? No.

Am I worried about Williamson getting a game ahead of Robertson or Anderson? Not really. They're all much of a muchness.

I am worried about Cameron playing well then struggling to get a sniff in the team though and McGowan being dropped like a stone.

Bowyer is definitely a flawed manager. Far too cautious for a team that needs to be going all out but think it's clear he doesn't rate many in the squad at all. With time, I reckon he could build us into a decent outfit. No point getting overly upset when it's still McPake's squad he's got and I think that in itself explains why he feels the need to tinker.

Ludo, you and I both know Byrne should be playing ahead of Grayson, McGhee and Williamson in midfield. The zero minutes on the park is disgraceful. 
 

Williamson isn’t good enough to sacrifice our own young players development coming through for. He’ll disappear off in the summer and we’ve messed our own players about over him. He’s miles behind Gowser as well. 
 

Robinson should 100% be playing before Rudden. What McPake saw in Rudden I’ve yet to see 10 months later. 
 

Also worried he isn’t able to attract players to the club. Numerous times he said over the summer transfer window he expected to get players through the door in the next few days only to fall through time and time again. 
 

Read from fans of clubs he previously managed that he was very negative in the last 10 minutes of games and would always try to hold onto what they had whether it was a point or 3. Today’s starting 11 takes that negativity to a whole new level. 
 

Shoogily peg time. 

Edited by Yenitit
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Just now, Yenitit said:

Ludo, you and I both know Byrne should be playing ahead of Grayson, McGhee and Williamson in midfield. The zero minutes on the park is disgraceful. 
 

Williamson isn’t good enough to sacrifice our own young players development coming through. He’ll disappear off in the summer and we’ve messed our own players about over him. He’s miles behind Gowser as well. 
 

Robinson should 100% be playing before Rudden. What McPake saw in Rudden I’ve yet to see 10 months later. 
 

Also worried he isn’t able to attract players to the club. Numerous times he said over the summer transfer window he expected to get players through the door in the next few days only to fall through time and time again. 
 

Read from fans of clubs he previously managed that he was very negative in the last 10 minutes of games and would always try to hold onto what they had whether it was a point or 3. Today’s starting 11 takes that negativity to a whole new level. 
 

Shoogily peg time. 

Agree with all of that except the last line. Nowhere near that stage for me. Needs to be given a chance to build his own squad.

Do think it's typical Nelms though. Finally make an appointment that's outside the box but also has a decent enough pedigree. Bring in a manager from down South that probably has less experience of our leagues than the precious duds we've appointed and then give him absolutely f**k all to work with after basically chucking money at complete non-entities in the managerial world.

It's typical Dundee really.

With a bit of time and a bit of money, I still reckon Bowyer has 'it' for us. I just don't think he'll get either and he'll go down as the latest dud when it's a case of what could have been IMO.

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1 hour ago, johnnydun said:

There was a few incidents in The Derry today too. Didn't even realise Mulligan had been sent off, the stewards got a right mouthful after trying to throw out a wee boy and his mother for no reason at all, needless to say, they didn't get thrown out.

There’s a boy in the Bobby Cox who constantly berates the players all game (unless we’re winning then he’s clamped) but his shouts generally involve calling the players poofs. He should be punted out the ground imo but the stewards always turn blind eye to it. Today someone clearly had enough of him and started on him and it escalated to them trying to climb over rows of seats and being held back, but basically just saying they were going to smash each other. Stewards ran away as this happened. The homophobe also ran away on the 80th min so clearly shat it. I’m no happy clapper but I have no idea why him and others even bother showing up for games when they are seething messes from kick off. An old boy today was going apeshit before the game even started when bowyer came out to applaud the crowd, Boy was screaming at him for not being in the dressing room telling the players what to do. It was 14:57 man, if the players don’t know what they’re doing by that time then things are worse than I thought.

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15 minutes ago, K.T said:

There’s a boy in the Bobby Cox who constantly berates the players all game (unless we’re winning then he’s clamped) but his shouts generally involve calling the players poofs. He should be punted out the ground imo but the stewards always turn blind eye to it. Today someone clearly had enough of him and started on him and it escalated to them trying to climb over rows of seats and being held back, but basically just saying they were going to smash each other. Stewards ran away as this happened. The homophobe also ran away on the 80th min so clearly shat it. I’m no happy clapper but I have no idea why him and others even bother showing up for games when they are seething messes from kick off. An old boy today was going apeshit before the game even started when bowyer came out to applaud the crowd, Boy was screaming at him for not being in the dressing room telling the players what to do. It was 14:57 man, if the players don’t know what they’re doing by that time then things are worse than I thought.

some of our fans are really special....boys booing like f**k when lawlor didnt hoof the ball long when down to 10 men and no fucker up front while morton player blocked him from kicking it quickly anyway. 

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16 minutes ago, Meeniedee said:

some of our fans are really special....boys booing like f**k when lawlor didnt hoof the ball long when down to 10 men and no fucker up front while morton player blocked him from kicking it quickly anyway. 

That’s not the time it was 2 on 2 and the ball should’ve been played in behind the Morton right back for McMullan to have a foot race against him was it? Boiled my piss at the game he never did that early and the kick out the time before. 

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He plucked the ball out the air on a six pence about ten times today, how can you say his hold up play isn't good? If he's running onto balls put in behind or hunting down defenders that isn't hold up play.
He was excellent today but had absolutely nothing around him. A big part of our inconsistency this season is the isolation of whoever is upfront. Bowyer has to sort it out ASAP. Robinson is good enough to be part of a team that gets promoted out this division.
As for Grayson he played well against Ayr last week and should have been starting today ahead of Williamson.
Thank you.

I wasn’t convinced with Robinson over the first couple of games but he’s grown on me and today he was excellent. Managing to take the ball and generally lay it off to somebody whilst getting bodied by some weegie brute, very impressive.

Although he’s been hot and cold I’d pick Grayson over Byrne (any debate about Williamson is null and void). Some folk seem to be forgetting how many utterly shite games Byrne has had for us.

The game today was crying out for a spark of something, how on earth Cameron didn’t get on is a total mystery.

As I said on the match thread it was obvious Mulligan’s frustration could easily end with him getting a red, poor man management by Bowyer there.

I’m putting today’s insipid performance down to illness and injury.

On a positive note Lawlor didn’t look quite as pish as the last time we saw him.
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1 hour ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

He plucked the ball out the air on a six pence about ten times today, how can you say his hold up play isn't good? If he's running onto balls put in behind or hunting down defenders that isn't hold up play.

He was excellent today but had absolutely nothing around him. A big part of our inconsistency this season is the isolation of whoever is upfront. Bowyer has to sort it out ASAP. Robinson is good enough to be part of a team that gets promoted out this division.

As for Grayson he played well against Ayr last week and should have been starting today ahead of Williamson.

Thank you.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's OK, I just don't see what he offers as a striker. I can only remember him taking the ball down from height on a sixpence once. I think his hold up play is average and this part of him is  overrated. Just different opinions though. 

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Our fans have let the side down a few times this season. Booing Robinson going off was embarrassing. 

Shouting 'Bowyer out!' when he applauded the fans at the end today was a minter.

Scrapping in the stands at Arbroath was a low moment.

Fans arguing with Legzdins, McMullan and Robinson all in separate incidents was another shite laugh from our fans.

I know we've a reputation to keep up but f**k sake.

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