All things Dundee FC

[johnnydun]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

Sharp for me, personally, is not gonna make it. 

I know you're not a Legzdins fan and I am, but I think we can maybe agree that between the two it's not the biggest problem area right now.

Every single player that can be described as a defender that's on our books should be released at the end of the season.

Arbroath have 6 goals this season in 10 games. 3 have been against us!

I would imagine Sweeney will be back as soon as his ban is up, playing in a pacy pairing of him and Ashcroft, with French and Marshall/Kerr. I would only keep French at this moment in time.

[Fifespud]

Sharp for me, personally, is not gonna make it. 
I know you're not a Legzdins fan and I am, but I think we can maybe agree that between the two it's not the biggest problem area right now.
Every single player that can be described as a defender that's on our books should be released at the end of the season.
Arbroath have 6 goals this season in 10 games. 3 have been against us!

There’s certainly been a lot of chopping and changing which doesn’t help. Bowyer seems no closer to knowing his best 11.

We’ve a team of journeymen but they’re not all shite by any means. We need a simple, well organised system.

I think we need maybe need to go back to Byrne in front of the back 4. Maybe Gowser and Mulligan in front of him with any 2 of our wide men along side them and Robinson up top.

And I think Byrne has been a massive disappointment.

[Fifespud]

I would imagine Sweeney will be back as soon as his ban is up, playing in a pacy pairing of him and Ashcroft, with French and Marshall/Kerr. I would only keep French at this moment in time.

French is new so we still have hope but to my eyes he’s also a journeyman. I prefer him at right back as he can create panic when he bursts forward.

Sweeney and Ashcroft are probably our best pairing, as mediocre as that is.

[RossBFaeDundee]

15 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

I would imagine Sweeney will be back as soon as his ban is up, playing in a pacy pairing of him and Ashcroft, with French and Marshall/Kerr. I would only keep French at this moment in time.

Sweeney's ban is up, he was on the bench today.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

So were we as bad as it sounds?

How much was down to the players?

How much was down to the manager's selections, formation and tactics?

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

So were we as bad as it sounds?

How much was down to the players?

How much was down to the manager's selections, formation and tactics?

70/30.

Tactics were dreadfully naive and tried to play Arbroath at their own game and didn't change at any point but no one can account for the players just not getting to grips with he wind at all and being second to every ball regardless of the tactic of choice.

[This Charming Man]

24 minutes ago, Kempes said:

Sad to hear that John Duncan has died. Excellent player and manager…and one of football’s genuinely good guys.

Truly sorry to hear that news. John Duncan had already transferred to Spurs a season or so before I was allowed to attend Dens as a youngster.

Checked Wiki, he scored 64 goals in 121 appearances for us and also scored for fun in the English top division whilst notching 53 goals in 103 games for Tottenham Hotspurs.

He is still awaiting his first full Scotland cap much to the shame of the SFA due to the West coast bias/illness prevalent in the 1970's.

Recall reading he grew up in Barnes Avenue, a couple of streets away from Dens Park and attended the same schools as myself. Guys like John Duncan knew what our club meant and indeed was all about.

Regards 

 

[Numptdee]

                            Legzdins

French    Sweeney  Ashcroft   Marshall

                               Byrne

             Gowser              Cameron 

McMullan         Robinson            McCowan 

 

 

That to me is our best team and dont change it!

[Ludo*1]

3 minutes ago, Numptdee said:

                            Legzdins

French    Sweeney  Ashcroft   Marshall

                               Byrne

             Gowser              Cameron 

McMullan         Robinson            McCowan 

 

 

That to me is our best team and dont change it!

I'd swap McGhee with Sweeney and agree.

[Fifespud]

                            Legzdins
French    Sweeney  Ashcroft   Marshall
                               Byrne
             Gowser              Cameron 
McMullan         Robinson            McCowan 
 
 
That to me is our best team and dont change it!

I’d have Sharp in, just to upset Ludo and I think it’s tough leaving Mulligan out. McCowan was shite today, possibly put Cameron in there instead. Don’t think it matters which side he plays on.

[Numptdee]

12 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

I’d have Sharp in, just to upset Ludo and I think it’s tough leaving Mulligan out. McCowan was shite today, possibly put Cameron in there instead. Don’t think it matters which side he plays on.

Yeah I'd be happy with Mulligan in the center. Hate him being played as a winger he is so much better ce real driving with the ball. Cameron for McCowan is fair too

[Boo Khaki]

2 hours ago, Fifespud said:

And I think Byrne has been a massive disappointment.

Grayson's very first game in dark blue was exactly what we've been needing out of Byrne, but unfortunately it seems like he has exactly the same issue of only actually turning up in 1 in 10 appearances.

Midfield has to be a trio of Byrne and Gowser sitting, with Mulligan playing further forward between the wide players. I'm glad Bowyer appears to have spotted that Mulligan needed a wee break from starting most games, but I don't know why he's continually left playing out wide when he's far more of a nuisance through the middle. I hope that stops if Jakubiak ever gets fit (what the f**k is wrong with him now anyway?) because if Bowyer wants to sub McMullan every single game then he needs replaced with someone other than Mulligan.

Defence is a shambles, and I don't think it really matters any more who plays there or who goes between the sticks, because they all have their plusses and negatives and every single combination leaks goals and likes a howler. I think Legs was definitely an improvement on the clowns he replaced when he first appeared, but a couple of performances lately have left me wondering if the injury and layoff have robbed him of what little he had left and he's now at the point where he isn't really up to it. It happens, and although he isn't really old for a keeper, sometimes a spell out of the game like that is enough to finish a player off regardless of age. I've seen it happen to players much younger than he is.

It is getting frustrating though that Bowyer just doesn't seem to know what the best 11 is, and that it's never the same from one week to the next. The line-up that started against Queens Park was about as close as he'd got to what I'd play, but not with Williamson and Grayson together. We won that 3-0, yet a couple of weeks later the CB pairing is different, he's playing McGhee in midfield (just fucking stop that), Mulligan out wide again, and Marshall is back at LB. I don't know how the side is meant to settle and improve if he is chopping and changing it constantly. Ok, injuries are a part of the game, but we have a deep enough squad to cover like-for-like without naming an entirely different 11 because one player is missing, and you have to accept that good, settled sides will occasionally produce a stinker or flog rotten goals, so even that isn't really an excuse for tampering with things. Different when a player is clearly miles off it for weeks on end like Sweeney, but chopping and changing fullbacks constantly, never playing the same midfield twice, I just don't get it.

 

[vikingTON]

4 hours ago, Vernon gilmore said:

Never want to hear moans about sharps kicking again after that today , I appreciate the wind was bad 

 

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

 no one can account for the players just not getting to grips with he wind at all 

I don't recall a hurricane being forecast for the North Sea this afternoon. Is it possible that you are just making more laughable excuses for what - by both Scottish football and Gayfield standards - would count as entirely ordinary playing conditions? Perhaps Dundee FC are just a hopelessly dung outfit? 

I for one hope that the wind isn't blowing too strong when Sir Douglas delivers his swording in a fortnight's time.

[Ludo*1]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

 

I don't recall a hurricane being forecast for the North Sea this afternoon. Is it possible that you are just making more laughable excuses for what - by both Scottish football and Gayfield standards - would count as entirely ordinary playing conditions? Perhaps Dundee FC are just a hopelessly dung outfit? 

I for one hope that the wind isn't blowing too strong when Sir Douglas delivers his swording in a fortnight's time.

No. No it is not.

I would also like to chastise you for attaching a picture of a clear jakeball in this quite clearly, classy thread.

Instead of our usual sign off, I shall need to alter it slightly so instead of 'thank you', I must bid you:

f**k off.

[Fifespud]

Grayson's very first game in dark blue was exactly what we've been needing out of Byrne, but unfortunately it seems like he has exactly the same issue of only actually turning up in 1 in 10 appearances.
Midfield has to be a trio of Byrne and Gowser sitting, with Mulligan playing further forward between the wide players. I'm glad Bowyer appears to have spotted that Mulligan needed a wee break from starting most games, but I don't know why he's continually left playing out wide when he's far more of a nuisance through the middle. I hope that stops if Jakubiak ever gets fit (what the f**k is wrong with him now anyway?) because if Bowyer wants to sub McMullan every single game then he needs replaced with someone other than Mulligan.
Defence is a shambles, and I don't think it really matters any more who plays there or who goes between the sticks, because they all have their plusses and negatives and every single combination leaks goals and likes a howler. I think Legs was definitely an improvement on the clowns he replaced when he first appeared, but a couple of performances lately have left me wondering if the injury and layoff have robbed him of what little he had left and he's now at the point where he isn't really up to it. It happens, and although he isn't really old for a keeper, sometimes a spell out of the game like that is enough to finish a player off regardless of age. I've seen it happen to players much younger than he is.
It is getting frustrating though that Bowyer just doesn't seem to know what the best 11 is, and that it's never the same from one week to the next. The line-up that started against Queens Park was about as close as he'd got to what I'd play, but not with Williamson and Grayson together. We won that 3-0, yet a couple of weeks later the CB pairing is different, he's playing McGhee in midfield (just fucking stop that), Mulligan out wide again, and Marshall is back at LB. I don't know how the side is meant to settle and improve if he is chopping and changing it constantly. Ok, injuries are a part of the game, but we have a deep enough squad to cover like-for-like without naming an entirely different 11 because one player is missing, and you have to accept that good, settled sides will occasionally produce a stinker or flog rotten goals, so even that isn't really an excuse for tampering with things. Different when a player is clearly miles off it for weeks on end like Sweeney, but chopping and changing fullbacks constantly, never playing the same midfield twice, I just don't get it.
 

The voice of reason. Yeah when Grayson classily strolled about the area in front of the back 4 on his debut, available to take a pass and effortlessly pushing us forward I thought ‘the missing link has been found’. Sadly it’s never been seen since.

[rhumbaclub]

Really worrying that the manager started with Sheridan, then took 77 minutes to hook him after the performance he was putting in. 

I don't care how much crap he inherited, losing faith in Bowyer very quickly now

[ExiledLichtie]

12 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

70/30.

Tactics were dreadfully naive and tried to play Arbroath at their own game and didn't change at any point but no one can account for the players just not getting to grips with he wind at all and being second to every ball regardless of the tactic of choice.

I know the Dundee fans are complaining about their keeper's kicking, and it was hilarious, but its far from the worst kicking at Gayfield....ask Partick Thistle fans about Scott Fox. 

[Vernon gilmore]

2 hours ago, Fifespud said:

The voice of reason. Yeah when Grayson classily strolled about the area in front of the back 4 on his debut, available to take a pass and effortlessly pushing us forward I thought ‘the missing link has been found’. Sadly it’s never been seen since.

Said the same after his debut , looked like we had found new Kevin Thomson , only to find out we have the new  Jock Tamsin 

[Boo Khaki]

I'd give Grayson a bit more time to see if he can produce that sort of thing a bit more often, but it's difficult to justify playing him in a team that is struggling already. I could see that performance being down to the 'high' of making a debut, and the fact that being the home side and doing most of the pressing against Arbroath there was a lot of space for him to operate in and not a lot of pressure on him when he had it. We've not clicked as a team so aren't really scruffing games as often as we perhaps should be, and I think it's reasonable to expect some players to have a wee bit of a settling in period. I think Grayson might look a bit better playing in a more settled and confident side that is capable of pressing more frequently, but we're clearly nowhere near that currently, I don't think he's necessarily the sort of player that will drag us to that point, and if he's not settling in then it makes me wonder how long that's likely going to take. Lower league English football isn't great, but even down the leagues their players tend to get a bit more time on the ball than ours do here, and I wonder if the issue with Grayson might be that in that first match he was pretty much in the environment he's used to, whereas the blood and snotters culture shock of Scots Championship football didn't really hit him until the subsequent matches.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing Byrne play again just to see if what's gone on might have put a boot up his arse. I'm not expecting it, because I think we've already seen enough of him to have a good idea of what he's about, but sometimes a perceived wrong ends up motivating a player and spurring them on. I think there was a wee bit of that with McMullan when he first came here on loan and it was clear the Dabs wanted rid of him.

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[Peadar BigDinnerO'Driscoll]

Byrne is still as shite as he was when first dropped. Might come in and have a good game I suppose, then 9 bad ones   Might as well try I suppose and drop Grayson. Play Gowser and Mulligan centrally and start with Robinson. Maybe the new boy can replace McCowan (another 1 game in 10 boy).

You have to wonder what they are doing every day in the fancy new training centre. Need to be braver on the ball, stop lumping it. Management team have got to get more out of these guys and instill some confidence.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Peadar BigDinnerO'Driscoll