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Mr Gandosaur

All things Dundee FC

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1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

Yep. Really bizarre what went on there. At Dundee, his biggest thing going for him was his work ethic. He'd be at pretty much every football game possible scouting for players or scouting the opposition. He wouldn't leave Dens until late at night and be the first one in, in the morning. Then he joins Falkirk and brings in some good quality players to dig them out of a relegation battle such as Andrew Nelson, Alex Jakubiak and Sean Welsh.

Over the pre-season, Falkirk scraps their youth system and Hartley has some English scout take over total control of the signing policy and the squad is filled with players like the Chelsea U23 captain etc and they're just utter shite and Hartley had never watched them play. Some conspiracy theories that it was a boardroom decision to have someone else in charge of the signings, but either way, really bizarre what went on that summer as it flew in the face of what Hartley's supposed strength in management is which is his work ethic.

He was manager from February of 2014 and signed zero players. He didn't rate the squad, even said that we'd finish 3rd based on the squad's ability in a neutral interview whilst still manager of Alloa about a month before when he was asked to predict the finish to the season. John Brown had just quit as we slipped to 2nd in the league (on GD) with him publicly stating that he didn't believe he'd be able to get us up. Hartley came in, didn't sign a single player and won us the league. Budget backing had nothing to do with that. If anything, Hartley had to clear the decks as we had some amount of complete jobbers like Stephen Hughes, Adam Cummins, Carlo Monti, Sean Bonnet Johnson & Steven Doris on the books when he joined.

You say it went from 'bad' to 'worse' when we lost Hemmings & Stewart. Was that period bad? Finishing 8th in the top flight? Yeah, with those 2 we perhaps underperformed, but I'd bite your hand off for that level of underperformance watching the likes of those light up Dens as we finish 8th in the top flight. I don't think any of our managers since Jocky the 2nd time round has done something of that ilk and even then, Jocky did it in a much less entertaining way.

I agree, he did lose his way in his final season, but taking 41 goals out of a side(GGH, Stewart & Hemmings) that scored 53 goals in the league season 2 weeks before the next season starts and tell me a manager that wouldn't have lost his way. Tell me any team in Scotland, and I'd include either side of the OF, where you can take 3 talents that are that important to the side away from the club that close to the season start and have it not be a disaster. He signed Marcus Haber who ultimately went a long, long way to keeping us up in order for us to rebuild and whilst El Bak was ultimately a flop, he was the fan chosen replacement for Stewart after he'd ripped the league to shreds for Dunfermline the season before and was very much seen as a massive coup for us at the time. Who could have predicted he'd turn to shite? Not many at the time!

At Cove he does have decent financial backing, but not to the extent that's made out. His 'big money signings' include Fraser Fyvie who couldn't win a deal at us or a few other Championship clubs after being on trial and Rory McAllister who left Peterhead to join but is now 33. Cove are also still part-time competing against 2 massive clubs (and not to mention full time) at that sort of level in Falkirk and Partick Thistle.

Finally, the last point doesn't make sense. I fully agree he deserved to be punted when he did but to say because Hamilton beat us in a one off game means he's poorer than Martin Canning is just bizarre. He outperformed Alex Neil pretty convincingly in the games against each other, how does that fit in to that narrative?

 

I’m not trying to say Canning was a better manager.  It was to illustrate just how muddled Hartley’s thinking had become. 

The point I was making was simply that he admitted himself he didn’t have a clue how to get a result out of his team as he had tried everything (over the season).  Remember Hamilton dominated that game at Dens.

It’s also something of a euphemism to say Hartley lost his way in the last season.  He absolutely imploded in more ways than one.

Each to their own though.  I know you are very loyal to managers and there is nothing wrong with that.....most of the time 😉

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Cove did come pre-packaged with Mitch Megginson though, basically a Prem-level striker (imo) who decided he was a one club man, so that probably compensates for the lack of big signings.

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15 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

As for the Ayr debacle, I don't think that was near the same, it was just the first real indication that we were a shockingly shite team.

Ooft, get a load of that line-up.

image.png.968f1a0392588f828e76e0b5c00ca847.png

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I'd take 5 of that line up and 3 of the bench in today's squad. 

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1 minute ago, Mr. Alli said:

I'd take 5 of that line up and 3 of the bench in today's squad. 

One from the line-up, two from the bench for me. At most.

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22 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Ooft, get a load of that line-up.

image.png.968f1a0392588f828e76e0b5c00ca847.png

I'd have:

Ralph,  Madianga,  Parish, Caulker, Kamara, Curran and either of Moussa/Kallman.

To put that into context:

Ralph is better than Marshall for me (and I really like Marshall).

Madianga was quality IMO.

Parish to fill the bench next season.

Kamara is one of the best players in Scotland these days.

Caulker is well above any of our CHs.

Moussa is a joke figure, but he'd provide more for us in the role we want Sow to play. As would Kallman IMO.

I'd also have Kusunga or Meekings ahead of Fontaine. Curran is better than McDaid as well.

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That seems more that you have a differing philosophy on football than anything else and in some cases I agree wholeheartedly and in others I don't. He based his teams on a more attacking form of defence whilst you take the more traditional view of things. I reckon our team was a hard b*****d type in midfield away from being a very successful team at it's peak and that I do agree on, the midfield needed addressing and balancing.
I think that Rangers game we went in with the attitude that we'd walk right over them (as we did a season or 2 later with O'Hara putting them to the sword a few times) and were punished by a team that had its first chance to try and prove they were Rangers of old. We were always in trouble that game but things might have been different if we'd held our nerve past the opening minute!
I'd love the level of groundhog day that we had under Hartley compared to absolutely anything else we've had since the Bonetti era back in 2001 tbh.

Right - I’m in. I’ll phone Ramsay and get him to deliver a skip up to Dens for him to live in - you nip up to Cove and get the deal done. Canny wait.

That McCann team. Caulker on the bench while utter dug meat like Meekings were on the park. Kamara on the bench and Spence playing - was he on magic mushies ffs.

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5 minutes ago, Fifespud said:


Right - I’m in. I’ll phone Ramsay and get him to deliver a skip up to Dens for him to live in - you nip up to Cove and get the deal done. Canny wait.

That McCann team. Caulker on the bench while utter dug meat like Meekings were on the park. Kamara on the bench and Spence playing - was he on magic mushies ffs.

:lol:

Again, I think it's the misguided arrogance that @Mr. Alli refers to thinking we could pap out an Ayr side that were flying whilst we 'rest' our key players!

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Had to go back on Twitter to find the line-up, and the way some talk I assume Kamara was coming off an injury. As for Caulker, idk.

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2 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

As for Caulker, idk.

There's a niggling thing in the back of my mind that this was just after Caulker wrecked his hotel. 

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Just remembered that was the game that Moussa came on at the hour mark, and got himself sent off in 15 minutes 😆 A sobering reminder as to why we all hated him.

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There's a niggling thing in the back of my mind that this was just after Caulker wrecked his hotel. 

Caulker wrecked his hotel room? How does so much shit happen and I don’t know???
What’s the script here Mr Alli?

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When everything reopens we should defo have a P and B hospitality day at Dens. There can’t be more than 20 of us regularly posting.
Who is in?

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11 minutes ago, Fifespud said:


Caulker wrecked his hotel room? How does so much shit happen and I don’t know???
What’s the script here Mr Alli?

It was all posted at the time. He went on the drink and destroyed his room. 

8 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

When everything reopens we should defo have a P and B hospitality day at Dens. There can’t be more than 20 of us regularly posting.
Who is in?

In. 

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34 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

When everything reopens we should defo have a P and B hospitality day at Dens. There can’t be more than 20 of us regularly posting.
Who is in?

Em in. Johnny is in also. He has no choice 

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52 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

When everything reopens we should defo have a P and B hospitality day at Dens. There can’t be more than 20 of us regularly posting.
Who is in?

Sounds like an anxiety filled disaster.

I'm in.

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1 hour ago, Fifespud said:

When everything reopens we should defo have a P and B hospitality day at Dens. There can’t be more than 20 of us regularly posting.
Who is in?

This has got total disaster written all over it. 

I'm in.

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Your city is missing an idiot….it’s his birthday soon. Please get him some crayons. 

F19AF821-0D12-428C-9B80-F83CB32A35F9.thumb.jpeg.1c870a06ef0c6e44e4fac66ab483ceea.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Fifespud said:

When everything reopens we should defo have a P and B hospitality day at Dens. There can’t be more than 20 of us regularly posting.
Who is in?

I’d like to attend, just to understand how your club can avoid another administration.

 @Mr. Alli seems to think that this is not an issue. It will be interesting to see the figures for the last financial year. When do you expect them to be out?

https://dundeefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-accounts-2/

The accounts for the year ending 31st May 2019 have been approved and signed by the Directors. 

Quite clearly, 2018/19 was a frustrating and disappointing season with the club being relegated from the SPFL Premiership. A loss for the year had been forecast but the actual loss of £1,825,669 was significantly higher than the previous year’s loss (£425,748). 

Revenue from the cup competitions was much lower than the year before and gains from the transfers of players were down year on year. Whilst income fell, total expenses increased by around £590,000, with player and managerial wages forming the major part of this increase. In an attempt to avoid relegation, changes had been made to the management team and as the Board supported the new manager in reshaping the playing squad, this increased player wage costs. 

Unfortunately, these changes and the additional expenditure failed to prevent relegation and the management team has been replaced, the costs of which are reflected in these accounts.   

With significantly reduced revenue from playing in the Championship, the Directors are forecasting another loss for the year to 31 May 2020 and whilst the board strives to ensure that the club gets promotion back to the Premiership, steps are being taken to reduce costs.

Edited by Yflab

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