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1 hour ago, Mr. Alli said:

He never "tried to play like Barcelona" at all. He asked players - who train 5 days a week with a football, play 90minufes every week with a football and were paid handsomely as professional footballers - to be calm, composed, control a football and pass to a man in the same coloured uniform as themselves. The fact that it failed and that "it never works in Scotland" isn't the fault of the man trying to change bad habits. 

Until more people realise this we will forever be an utter backwater in footballing terms. 

It is possible to play good football in Scotland.  Rangers have played some exceptional football this season but they have some exceptional players.  Bar one or two, McCann never brought in exceptional players.  He brought in numerous players that could not do as he asked.  That is his fault. A good manager looks at what is available and sets out the team accordingly.
 
Anyone can ask people to do something above their ability or above what is possible under all the circumstances .  The skill is knowing exactly what your employee is capable of and building them to that level.  Don’t demand they do more than they are capable of as that will only lead to mistakes, resentment and ultimately a collapse in confidence.

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He never "tried to play like Barcelona" at all. He asked players - who train 5 days a week with a football, play 90minufes every week with a football and were paid handsomely as professional footballers - to be calm, composed, control a football and pass to a man in the same coloured uniform as themselves. The fact that it failed and that "it never works in Scotland" isn't the fault of the man trying to change bad habits. 
Until more people realise this we will forever be an utter backwater in footballing terms. 


Passed it about the back, with no real result. Admitted he was about to change his philosophy, just before he was sacked, about 9 months to late. Don’t get me wrong, his idea was tried for the correct reasons, but it was an abject failure, and should have been abandoned long before he was sacked.

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It is possible to play good football in Scotland.  Rangers have played some exceptional football this season but they have some exceptional players.  Bar one or two, McCann never brought in exceptional players.  He brought in numerous players that could not do as he asked.  That is his fault. A good manager looks at what is available and sets out the team accordingly.
 
Anyone can ask people to do something above their ability or above what is possible under all the circumstances .  The skill is knowing exactly what your employee is capable of and building them to that level.  Don’t demand they do more than they are capable of as that will only lead to mistakes, resentment and ultimately a collapse in confidence.

Correct. Sean Dyche Burnley manager said publicly, if you want to play like Barcelona, sign Barcelona quality players.

We’re now even seeing it with Finn, Moore, and others that when they get the ball, they look for a square pass, or go backwards. That’s due to McCann trying to get the whole club playing with this philosophy.

Rangers are a good football team, as are Celtic, but look at the budgets they have.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

He never "tried to play like Barcelona" at all. He asked players - who train 5 days a week with a football, play 90minufes every week with a football and were paid handsomely as professional footballers - to be calm, composed, control a football and pass to a man in the same coloured uniform as themselves. The fact that it failed and that "it never works in Scotland" isn't the fault of the man trying to change bad habits. 

Until more people realise this we will forever be an utter backwater in footballing terms. 

It actually takes a lot of ability, composure and footballing intelligence to consistently do that in the modern game where teams are drilled to press and enforce errors. Look at Glen Kamara, he wasn't a midfield sentinel who broke up play and started dangerous counter attacks, he wasn't a creative dynamo who set up or scored 20 goals a season. He was a player who could receive the ball under pressure, spot a pass, and make the pass with a consistent degree of accuracy. That was enough to get him a big move to Rangers, probably an even bigger move to the Premier League in the future and be regarded as one of Dundee's best midfielders in the last 10 years. Players of that ability get big moves to move clubs.

It's unrealistic for a team of Dundee's standing to field an entire team capable of doing that.

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15 hours ago, SteveAn said:

What was McCann like when he was in charge of you guys? 

Tbh I enjoyed his 1st season in charge and like the style of play he wants to play despite people around me at games near combusting because he likes to play the ball out from the back.  
 

His signing policy in his 2nd summer was bizarre, trying to cherry pick half a dozen or so players from the English National league and below when it should only be 1 or 2 at a time came back to bite him on the arse and our club big time. Don’t know if this was his policy or the club’s directors though right enough. The guys a winner and won’t take passenger. I would take him back in a heartbeat over the current incumbent and his predecessor 😔

Hope he does well at your club but obviously not to the detriment of my own!

 

Edited to say don’t let him sign a goalkeeper 🙈

Edited by Yenitit

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Regards McCann I’d only put him behind Hartley in terms of manager’s since Jocky got punted that’s how bad our appointments have been in the last 10 years 🙈 

Chisholm - pish

Bomber - fuckin lunatic 

Hartley - 1 bad season 

Mcintyre - ahahahahaha, oh ma sides. Absolutely brutal. 
 

McPake - decent signings, tactically inept and uninspiring. 

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3 hours ago, bp33 said:

 


Tried to play like Barcelona, with Dundee FC players. Can’t believe he failed.

 

😂

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2 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Regards McCann I’d only put him behind Hartley in terms of manager’s since Jocky got punted that’s how bad our appointments have been in the last 10 years 🙈 

Chisholm - pish

Bomber - fuckin lunatic 

Hartley - 1 bad season 

Mcintyre - ahahahahaha, oh ma sides. Absolutely brutal. 
 

McPake - decent signings, tactically inept and uninspiring. 

Interesting idea. Here's my list of managers since I started watching Dundee. Note: Barry Smith would instantly go to the top of my list for that single season, but I'll treat it over the spell. And John McCormack was just appointed manager when I started going to Dens, but remember very little.

1. Jocky Scott.

2. Paul Hartley

3. Barry Smith

4. Jocky Scott II

5. Jim Duffy

6. Alex Rae

7. Ivano Bonetti (Love him enough to be in my top 3, but let's be real. He's lucky to get this high!)

8. John Brown

9. Neil McCann

10. Gordon Chisholm

11. James McPake

12. Alan Kernaghan

13. Jim McIntyre

Absolute madness.

Only Jocky, Hartley & Smith can be deemed as successful over their whole stints IMO and I'm sure that not everyone would be unanimous on that!

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39 minutes ago, EpicMike said:

It actually takes a lot of ability, composure and footballing intelligence to consistently do that in the modern game where teams are drilled to press and enforce errors. Look at Glen Kamara, he wasn't a midfield sentinel who broke up play and started dangerous counter attacks, he wasn't a creative dynamo who set up or scored 20 goals a season. He was a player who could receive the ball under pressure, spot a pass, and make the pass with a consistent degree of accuracy. That was enough to get him a big move to Rangers, probably an even bigger move to the Premier League in the future and be regarded as one of Dundee's best midfielders in the last 10 years. Players of that ability get big moves to move clubs.

It's unrealistic for a team of Dundee's standing to field an entire team capable of doing that.

To create composure, confidence in your own ability and in game intelligence you need to have it drummed into you from a young age and be allowed to make mistake and learn from them. Things which do not happen in Scotland - or Dundee - as we swung from one philosophy to a polar opposite in the "tried and tested" manager that was McIntyre. Signs absolute huddies and hoof the ball. Release anybody with any semblance of ability to hold onto the ball and get in boys to kick it upto Curran as quick as possible. 

It absolutely isn't unrealistic to expect a club with a wage bill the size of Dundee's to be able to select from a team of professionals who are able to do the bare basics of control, pass and move. Players will move on, it happens. Apparently Fin just "looks for an easy pass" rather than retains possession and works the field. It's a prime example. 

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Nothing finer than da's exploding at teams having the temerity to pass the ball.

Absolute NAP yer man here was screeching "get the ball forward!" before the keepers pass had even reached the CB.

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Neil McCann had his play it out from the back philosophy - fine. But that begins with a goalkeeper and the goalkeeper he signed to do that was Jack Hamilton. What little remained of that boys confidence evaporated day 1 of the season against St Mirren. Stick to the punditry, Neil.

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29 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Interesting idea. Here's my list of managers since I started watching Dundee. Note: Barry Smith would instantly go to the top of my list for that single season, but I'll treat it over the spell. And John McCormack was just appointed manager when I started going to Dens, but remember very little.

1. Jocky Scott.

2. Paul Hartley

3. Barry Smith

4. Jocky Scott II

5. Jim Duffy

6. Alex Rae

7. Ivano Bonetti (Love him enough to be in my top 3, but let's be real. He's lucky to get this high!)

8. John Brown

9. Neil McCann

10. Gordon Chisholm

11. James McPake

12. Alan Kernaghan

13. Jim McIntyre

Absolute madness.

Only Jocky, Hartley & Smith can be deemed as successful over their whole stints IMO and I'm sure that not everyone would be unanimous on that!

If that shower of shite isn't bad enough, I'm old enough to add Coco, Stainrod and Munro into the mix. Can just about remember Archie Knox, but that's a stretch... Would put Bonetti above Rae, and McCormack at about 8, but really only Jocky & Duffy have had anything like a decent track record, apart from Hartley's first two seasons and Barry in Dee-fiant mode....

 

On the Brightside, surely we can't do worse with out next managerial pick.

 

 

Can we????

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6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Nothing finer than da's exploding at teams having the temerity to pass the ball.

Absolute NAP yer man here was screeching "get the ball forward!" before the keepers pass had even reached the CB.

It's a lose-lose situation. 'Get it up the park!!!' is usually interchangeable with 'Keep it on the deck!!!' depending on what's going wrong in any particular game.

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6 minutes ago, Spikethedee said:

If that shower of shite isn't bad enough, I'm old enough to add Coco, Stainrod and Munro into the mix. Can just about remember Archie Knox, but that's a stretch... Would put Bonetti above Rae, and McCormack at about 8, but really only Jocky & Duffy have had anything like a decent track record, apart from Hartley's first two seasons and Barry in Dee-fiant mode....

 

Thought Munro could have been good, but never really got a chance, Archie Knox I would say is easily the best manager I've seen in (50 years)

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My favourite time following Dundee was probably Jocky's first spell in 87-88 and Duffy in the mid-90s before he made the mistake of going to Hibs, which he admitted himself he regrets. I was gutted at the time but I couldn't blame him considering the utter nonsense going on at the club at the time. The football at the time was also superb. The top 4 or 5 teams in the First Division  back then would easily hold their own in the Prem now. 

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8 minutes ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said:

 Was Archie's brilliant side that he inherited though.😎 

I just missed his tenure unfortunately. First game was the Tannadice Derby in March 87, then became a regular later the following season. First Dens match I remember was a 3-1 win over Falkirk. 

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10 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

TDB currently discussing the hope of getting in Neil Lennon. In any case, lol.

No gingers at dens.

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