All things Dundee FC

[RossDee01]

2 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

It shouldn't be taking him 20+ games to get to grips with this division, spot the flaws in the side and correct them every season. Apart from that, yes, credit where credit is due. He sorted it in Feb and March last season, and so far in March and April of this we've actually looked like the team I had hoped we'd be back in September.

Then that’s on the board, you can’t take that out on McPake as you’re going to get that with an inexperienced manager. That’s not McPake’s fault. He’s raw, and like I said, I’m still not convinced but credit where credits due. If we get out of the division, I’ll hold my hands up.

[Boo Khaki]

1 minute ago, RossDee01 said:

Then that’s on the board, you can’t take that out on McPake as you’re going to get that with an inexperienced manager. That’s not McPake’s fault. He’s raw, and like I said, I’m still not convinced but credit where credits due. If we get out of the division, I’ll hold my hands up.

I don't agree.

There are people in here who have never managed a football team, yet spotted the problems in this side right from the get go. McPake is a paid manager, he should be capable of diagnosing and correcting these things from day one. If he knows about them and can't correct them due to inadequacies in the playing staff that can not be resolved, that's one thing. If he's just oblivious to them full stop, then he's clearly not cut out to be a manager in the first place, his inexperience doesn't come into it.

[RossDee01]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

I don't agree.

There are people in here who have never managed a football team, yet spotted the problems in this side right from the get go. McPake is a paid manager, he should be capable of diagnosing and correcting these things from day one. If he knows about them and can't correct them due to inadequacies in the playing staff that can not be resolved, that's one thing. If he's just oblivious to them full stop, then he's clearly not cut out to be a manager in the first place, his inexperience doesn't come into it.

That’s absolute nonsense. None of us in here have any idea what goes on behind the scenes day to day. We don’t know how players are feeling, who’s carrying niggling injuries, who’s going through personal issues etc. To sit and say that people on this forum have the solutions to the problems is utter nonsense. There’s a million and one different opinions on this thread alone, and I guarantee not one of us is close to being capable of managing a football team, as much as some people would like to think they are. 
 

What is it that he is oblivious to in your opinion and he should change?

[Boo Khaki]

I was sat here last season repeating over and over that we couldn't play 4 in midfield because we had no box-to-box type midfielders, and the biggest reason we were floundering was due to a lack of athleticism and dynamism in midfield.

In fairness to McPake, he resolved that by signing Callachan on loan last winter, then playing McGhee in a similar role prior to Christmas, and more recently it's been resolved by the emergence of Max Anderson. My point is, a decent manager wouldn't have persisted with trying to play a four when it was obvious we didn't have the players to do it, and nor would he have gone into this season with that problem still wholly unresolved and yet still trying to do the exact same thing.

Again, I'm perfectly happy to give McPake the credit for recognising the issue, eventually, and addressing it, I'm just not accepting that the excuse for taking so long to recognise it, or for persisting with things that are clearly a waste of time in the first place, is inexperience. He's not the only person with input into football matters at the club. If it honestly hadn't occurred to him, then there are others around who could be making the point to him and offering a solution, but again, we're back at the stage of questioning whether that's an indication of suitability for the role in the first place. There's a huge difference between being a good coach, and actually understanding how to assemble, set up, and manage the 11 on the pitch.

He also deserves credit for signing McMullan, as that was clearly also a fundamental problem with trying to play the way we were, but again, why try to pish with a cock you don't have in the first place? Gowser has never been an advanced midfielder in my opinion, and I never understood why both McCann and McPake insisted on playing him in that role. It shouldn't be taking until January or later for McPake to figure these things out. He has the entire summer to figure out what he's trying to do and assemble a squad capable of doing it.

Then there's the persistence with Hamilton, although I'll grant you that might well be one example where the managers hands were tied more than we realise, i.e. limitations on the squad that he really can't resolve, and ultimately not really his fault.

Oh, and the final thing, is that Declan McDaid was due to go out on loan to Partick before League One was suspended. Given that we don't have a like-for-like player elsewhere in the squad, and that he's since become an automatic selection, it still leaves the lingering perception that this run of form and settled side has come about purely through accident rather than by design. If this was McPake's idea all along, why the hell were we binning McDaid off to a lower league with no obvious replacement waiting in the wings? Who is Marshall's back-up exactly? or are we just presuming that he'll get through 30+ games without suffering any sort of injury?

Edited April 8, 2021 by Boo Khaki

[RossDee01]

8 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

I was sat here last season repeating over and over that we couldn't play 4 in midfield because we had no box-to-box type midfielders, and the biggest reason we were floundering was due to a lack of athleticism and dynamism in midfield.

In fairness to McPake, he resolved that by signing Callachan on loan last winter, then playing McGhee in a similar role prior to Christmas, and more recently it's been resolved by the emergence of Max Anderson. My point is, a decent manager wouldn't have persisted with trying to play a four when it was obvious we didn't have the players to do it, and nor would he have gone into this season with that problem still wholly unresolved and yet still trying to do the exact same thing.

Again, I'm perfectly happy to give McPake the credit for recognising the issue, eventually, and addressing it, I'm just not accepting that the excuse for taking so long to recognise it, or for persisting with things that are clearly a waste of time in the first place, is inexperience. He's not the only person with input into football matters at the club. If it honestly hadn't occurred to him, then there are others around who could be making the point to him and offering a solution, but again, we're back at the stage of questioning whether that's an indication of suitability for the role in the first place. There's a huge difference between being a good coach, and actually understanding how to assemble, set up, and manage the 11 on the pitch.

He also deserves credit for signing McMullan, as that was clearly also a fundamental problem with trying to play the way we were, but again, why try to pish with a cock you don't have in the first place? Gowser has never been an advanced midfielder in my opinion, and I never understood why both McCann and McPake insisted on playing him in that role. It shouldn't be taking until January or later for McPake to figure these things out. He has the entire summer to figure out what he's trying to do and assemble a squad capable of doing it.

Then there's the persistence with Hamilton, although I'll grant you that might well be one example where the managers hands were tied more than we realise, i.e. limitations on the squad that he really can't resolve, and ultimately not really his fault.

Oh, and the final thing, is that Declan McDaid was due to go out on loan to Partick before League One was suspended. Given that we don't have a like-for-like player elsewhere in the squad, and that he's since become and automatic selection, it still leaves the lingering perception that this run of form and settled side has come about purely through accident rather than by design. If this was McPake's idea all along, why the hell were we binning McDaid off to a lower league with no obvious replacement waiting in the wings? Who is Marshall's back-up exactly? or are we just presuming that he'll get through 30+ games without suffering any sort of injury?

Not sure what you mean by the 4 in midfield as for the last few weeks he has gone to  a 4-4-2 which has been successful and has dropped the captain in order to do so. That can’t be easy. As for the rest, you’ve said before that he’s incapable of seeing issues and can’t fix them yet every example you’ve given you’ve followed it up by admitting that he has fixed it every time.

This season has been poor, I get that and like I said I’m still not convinced, but if we’re going to criticise when things are going wrong we have to be able say fair play when things are going well. I think he has now found a good balance and a team that works for him. Hopefully we can kick on and go on a little run from here.

[Boo Khaki]

3 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

Not sure what you mean by the 4 in midfield as for the last few weeks he has gone to  a 4-4-2 which has been successful and has dropped the captain in order to do so. That can’t be easy. As for the rest, you’ve said before that he’s incapable of seeing issues and can’t fix them yet every example you’ve given you’ve followed it up by admitting that he has fixed it every time.

This season has been poor, I get that and like I said I’m still not convinced, but if we’re going to criticise when things are going wrong we have to be able say fair play when things are going well. I think he has now found a good balance and a team that works for him. Hopefully we can kick on and go on a little run from here.

Yes, by fucking MARCH!!!! 

Do you realise that if we go up this season, and it takes him until March next year to figure out how to put out an effective side in the Premiership, what that's a nailed-on certainty to result in? (presuming he's still in the job come January).

Again, I'm not claiming he's some sort of idiot, merely that a capable manager wouldn't be taking 3/4's of a season to spot and fix these things, and that if he'd resolved the things in the summer that were dealt with in January/February, we'd likely be fighting Hearts for the title. Last season I could kind of understand it, but the whole thing repeated again this year, and from September to March we yet again looked like a side assembled by and managed by a man that didn't really have any idea what he was doing. The season does not, can not start in March every year.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Boo Khaki

[johnnydun]

19 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

That’s absolute nonsense. None of us in here have any idea what goes on behind the scenes day to day. We don’t know how players are feeling, who’s carrying niggling injuries, who’s going through personal issues etc. To sit and say that people on this forum have the solutions to the problems is utter nonsense. There’s a million and one different opinions on this thread alone, and I guarantee not one of us is close to being capable of managing a football team, as much as some people would like to think they are. 
 

What is it that he is oblivious to in your opinion and he should change?

I managed a team once, not to the levels of professional football mind you, but you are 100% correct.

Nobody on here knows where individual players heads are at, they may have niggling injuries that pushing it would result in a worse situation, or whether their attitude in training hasn't warranted a start. So many things that influence a starting 11.

But, at the same time, we should still have a depth of squad that see us challenge all the way, because lets face it, all other clubs have the same issues as above, it's nothing new.

He should still be doing better than he is with the players at his disposal.

[Dee Bliss]

12 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Controversial, but I think Paul McGowan has been back to his absolute best since being back in CM. He gave away a goal against Ayr in the home fixture about a month ago, but other than that he's been consistently one of the best players on the park.

Just the other night, the second goal was all him. He had the wherewithal to bully the defender who was trying to usher it out of play, do one of his famous pirouettes and allow us to kill the game by keeping the ball alive and setting that goal up. Then our third was the goal of the season for us IMO.

People say he's not got legs and put him in that bracket with Adam as not doing a lot of running but he does an absolute power of work in the midfield area harassing the opposition.

This is his 7th season as a Dee. He deserves at least another.

On paper, he's probably the midfielder that drops out for Adam, but it's a credit to himself that he's keeping himself in the team just now and I don't buy that it's just because he and McPake are mates.

ETA: I'd also add, that it's his play that's allowing Anderson to drive into the opposition box time and time again and ensuring the midfield area is safe in the same way Shaun Byrne would do as well.

The only issue with Gowser was that he was being hung out to dry/shoehorned into the side in positions he should never be played in or is good enough in which in return was damaging both the team’s results and performances. Who in their right mind thinks Gowser was the best man at the club to play up front or right midfield
 

I said it months ago Gowser should play play centre midfield and nowhere else. He’s was more than good enough in that position. He’s not got any pace but he’s on the move constantly and puts in a helluva shift every game in the middle. 
 

Agree it’s him or Adam that starts and the other on the bench. Pretty good problem to have. 
 

McPake’s made an arse of this season. Boils meh pish that he changed the formation out of nowhere for the Ayr game at Dens that and we lost. We could’ve had Hearts under a wee bit of pressure at this stage but that game killed us. 

[RossDee01]

5 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

I managed a team once, not to the levels of professional football mind you, but you are 100% correct.

Nobody on here knows where individual players heads are at, they may have niggling injuries that pushing it would result in a worse situation, or whether their attitude in training hasn't warranted a start. So many things that influence a starting 11.

But, at the same time, we should still have a depth of squad that see us challenge all the way, because lets face it, all other clubs have the same issues as above, it's nothing new.

He should still be doing better than he is with the players at his disposal.

I agree, that’s why I’m still not convinced. However, if we go up it’s job done and I’ll admit I was wrong. Don’t go up, and it’s a failure with the group of players we have. It’s not an easy job for your first one in management to be fair, but he wanted it so with that he accepted the pressure that comes with it.

[Dee Bliss]

Congratulations to McPake on manager of the month. Would’ve gave that accolade to McCann personally!

[Dee Bliss]

28 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

I was sat here last season repeating over and over that we couldn't play 4 in midfield because we had no box-to-box type midfielders, and the biggest reason we were floundering was due to a lack of athleticism and dynamism in midfield.

In fairness to McPake, he resolved that by signing Callachan on loan last winter, then playing McGhee in a similar role prior to Christmas, and more recently it's been resolved by the emergence of Max Anderson. My point is, a decent manager wouldn't have persisted with trying to play a four when it was obvious we didn't have the players to do it, and nor would he have gone into this season with that problem still wholly unresolved and yet still trying to do the exact same thing.

Again, I'm perfectly happy to give McPake the credit for recognising the issue, eventually, and addressing it, I'm just not accepting that the excuse for taking so long to recognise it, or for persisting with things that are clearly a waste of time in the first place, is inexperience. He's not the only person with input into football matters at the club. If it honestly hadn't occurred to him, then there are others around who could be making the point to him and offering a solution, but again, we're back at the stage of questioning whether that's an indication of suitability for the role in the first place. There's a huge difference between being a good coach, and actually understanding how to assemble, set up, and manage the 11 on the pitch.

He also deserves credit for signing McMullan, as that was clearly also a fundamental problem with trying to play the way we were, but again, why try to pish with a cock you don't have in the first place? Gowser has never been an advanced midfielder in my opinion, and I never understood why both McCann and McPake insisted on playing him in that role. It shouldn't be taking until January or later for McPake to figure these things out. He has the entire summer to figure out what he's trying to do and assemble a squad capable of doing it.

Then there's the persistence with Hamilton, although I'll grant you that might well be one example where the managers hands were tied more than we realise, i.e. limitations on the squad that he really can't resolve, and ultimately not really his fault.

Oh, and the final thing, is that Declan McDaid was due to go out on loan to Partick before League One was suspended. Given that we don't have a like-for-like player elsewhere in the squad, and that he's since become an automatic selection, it still leaves the lingering perception that this run of form and settled side has come about purely through accident rather than by design. If this was McPake's idea all along, why the hell were we binning McDaid off to a lower league with no obvious replacement waiting in the wings? Who is Marshall's back-up exactly? or are we just presuming that he'll get through 30+ games without suffering any sort of injury?

I hope we’re not forgetting about his biggest crime, the goalkeeping situation. Unforgivable. Also the centrehalfs jeezo 

[Boo Khaki]

The biggest thing I'll say in defence of James McPake, is that I think the failure of Jordon Forster had a much more profound and significant impact on McPake's plans than has been recognised.

I think that McPake wanted to play a 3 CB system all along, with Forster playing the clogger role in the centre of that. A 3 man backline would have resolved the issue with a lack of athleticism in midfield by letting us use three central players, and would also have meant that Hemmings would have had a partner to play off up front.

Forster being a total liability any time he played kinda forced us to play with a back 4, and that then meant any formation we played from then on had some pretty serious flaws. We didn't have the athletic central player and wingers to play 4-4-2, Hemmings was left isolated in 4-2-3-1, and we didn't (to my knowledge anyway) really give a 4-3-3 a serious effort last season. 

Roll into this, and we still have much the same issues due to limitations of the squad. McGhee playing box-to-box got a 4-3-3 working, but it was obvious that wasn't something that had been constructed over the off-season, more that it came about out of necessity rather than design. 

If Forster had worked out, perhaps we'd have made a better fist of last season as a whole, Hemmings would have been a far more effective and happy player, might still be here, and we'd have gone into this season a settled, balanced side with a clear plan and purpose, and given Hearts a real fight for the title. The fact we started to click once we signed Berra last season and reverted back to a 3 just makes me more convinced that Forster's ineffectiveness was far more significant than realised.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Boo Khaki

[Ludo*1]

Ayr fans going mental about McPake in their thread. Hilarious reading.

[eez-eh]

49 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Ayr fans going mental about McPake in their thread. Hilarious reading.

We’re going mental about everything just now tbf.

But I do think it’s very poor form actively stopping your doctor from assisting an opposition player with a potential head knock just because you don’t like the manager.

[D'Jaffo]

Ayr fans going mental about McPake in their thread. Hilarious reading.

Think it’s pretty fair to be annoyed at the guy for laughing at a player getting a head knock and then telling his physio not to bother helping him when he could. Bit worrying that you’d find that kind of behaviour okay tbh.

[Derry Alli]

 

[Dundee-FC92]

10 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

But I do think it’s very poor form actively stopping your doctor from assisting an opposition player with a potential head knock just because you don’t like the manager.

If people were assisting individuals during the corona pandemic due to a potential knock to the head then McPake would have been assisted weekly from opposition doctors. The players have been asked not to celebrate together but you're wanting someone to come into close contact over a potential headknock. 

Get your own medical staff within your perma diddy bubble.

Beaten by Clyde then Dundee within a few days, stick some haggis and neeps on that you Ayrshire arseholes.

Thank you.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Dundee-FC92

[Ludo*1]

13 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

We’re going mental about everything just now tbf.

But I do think it’s very poor form actively stopping your doctor from assisting an opposition player with a potential head knock just because you don’t like the manager.

Would that have not broken our bubble? Don't you have your own physio? Do you need more than one qualified physio/club doctor to deal with a broken nose?

8 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

Think it’s pretty fair to be annoyed at the guy for laughing at a player getting a head knock and then telling his physio not to bother helping him when he could. Bit worrying that you’d find that kind of behaviour okay tbh.

I think what's more worrying is the tears from yourself tbh.

[eez-eh]

7 minutes ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

If people were assisting individuals during the corona pandemic due to a potential knock to the head then McPake would have been assisted weekly from opposition doctors. The players have been asked not to celebrate together but you're wanting someone to come into close contact over a potential headknock. 

Get your own medical staff within your perma diddy bubble.

Beaten by Clyde then Dundee within a few days, stick some haggis and neeps on that you Ayrshire arseholes.

Thank you.

Reading this makes me think that you’ve had a head knock tbh.

[Dundee-FC92]

1 minute ago, eez-eh said:

Reading this makes me think that you’ve had a head knock tbh.

Can i start ranting that you're not sending a doctor?

Thank you.