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Will watch a player before making a judgement, but this McPake signing strategy is quite uninspiring. IMO.


This. Fucking bonkers. Nearly a third of the season gone and were still looking to sign jobbers. This is exploding my head.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Play said:

I personally don’t think so.  I saw very little from McCann that showed he had what it takes to be a good manager.  I’m guessing most chairmen think the same way as he’s not exactly been highly sought after since being punted.  I’d be amazed if he ever gets a decent gig in management again.

As for replacing him with McIntyre - that’s a totally different issue.  It’s an issue that highlights just how little Nelms knows about Dundee FC and Scottish football in general.

Looks like like we have an inexperienced chairman that never seems to learn and is determined to appoint inexperienced  managers that never seem to learn.  Not great!

I really don't get the revisionism around McCann. He was fucking useless and paying money for Jack Hamilton alone should have had him emptied. There is absolutely no way he'd have had us any closer to safety than McIntyre.

Nelms has actively recruited the poorest series of managers I can ever recall. We've suffered some absolute shite in the hotseat over the years, but McCann-McIntyre-McPake really is absolute barrel-scraping stuff. Sadly we're stuck with Nelms who simply does not have enough knowledge or understanding of Scottish football to be able to make a competent appointment and probably never will. McPake will hang on too long, torpedoing our season before eventually being binned and replaced by another shite manager. 

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I really don't get the revisionism around McCann. He was fucking useless and paying money for Jack Hamilton alone should have had him emptied. There is absolutely no way he'd have had us any closer to safety than McIntyre.
Nelms has actively recruited the poorest series of managers I can ever recall. We've suffered some absolute shite in the hotseat over the years, but McCann-McIntyre-McPake really is absolute barrel-scraping stuff. Sadly we're stuck with Nelms who simply does not have enough knowledge or understanding of Scottish football to be able to make a competent appointment and probably never will. McPake will hang on too long, torpedoing our season before eventually being binned and replaced by another shite manager. 


Totally this. McCann thought he was managing Barcelona. A total car crash. Signing 1/2 a team of totally unknown French players. Just the ticket. Horsed virtually every week.

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14 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

I really don't get the revisionism around McCann. He was fucking useless and paying money for Jack Hamilton alone should have had him emptied. There is absolutely no way he'd have had us any closer to safety than McIntyre.

Nelms has actively recruited the poorest series of managers I can ever recall. We've suffered some absolute shite in the hotseat over the years, but McCann-McIntyre-McPake really is absolute barrel-scraping stuff. Sadly we're stuck with Nelms who simply does not have enough knowledge or understanding of Scottish football to be able to make a competent appointment and probably never will. McPake will hang on too long, torpedoing our season before eventually being binned and replaced by another shite manager. 

Spot on regarding John Nelms managerial appointment history.

As much as we hold close our club, in all honesty it's been an unwaivering embarrassment for several seasons now. Which is heart breaking due to the fact the American owners really believe they're on the correct business pathway. 

McPake out please. This is business and not personal.

 

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I don’t see the American owners getting much wrong at Dens apart from the truly mental managerial appointments. 
 

Looks like we’ll have to wait until the 2nd week of January to appoint Lennon and Big Rab after Celtic’s announcement today. 

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2 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

 

Totally this. McCann thought he was managing Barcelona. A total car crash. Signing 1/2 a team of totally unknown French players. Just the ticket. Horsed virtually every week.

 

Totally. The seeds of our relegation were sown in the first 7 or 8 games that season, largely down to McCann signing a load of utter shite and insisting on some shit-awful version of possession football that involved passing the ball around in out own half before inevitably losing possession and conceding a ludicrous goal. I also thought the strategy of offering virtually no attacking threat was doomed to failure. 

McIntyre was horrific in many, many respects but weirdly almost pulled off some decent results before Xmas, the rest of that season was a total car crash though. If anything I think we'd have been relegated even earlier by McCann tbh. 

2 minutes ago, This Charming Man said:

Spot on regarding John Nelms managerial appointment history.

As much as we hold close our club, in all honesty it's been an unwaivering embarrassment for several seasons now. Which is heart breaking due to the fact the American owners really believe they're on the correct business pathway. 

McPake out please. This is business and not personal.

I've banged this drum many a time, but we've largely been a joke since punting Jocky in 2000 at a time when we've had two mid-table finishes, albeit not particularly great to watch. Had he been left in place with even a fraction of the money thrown away on the Bonetti experiment we could have been a reasonably stable SPL club. Instead we've had two administrations, a stunning array of chancers at boardroom level, and barring that mental unbeaten run a few years back could have ended up in the third tier. Appointing a totally inexperienced manager who is currently making an arse of his second season, whilst simultaneously appointing a very experienced manager at club and international level to look after the youths is absolute peak Dundee boardroom stuff. 

 

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United fans seem pretty upset about the prospect of us signing Stanton which is always a good sign. Here are the quotes from McPake on both Arabs that are linked.

Stanton:

'For me, the player is the important thing. I get the rivalry as I have been here long enough and this is my club now. I have known Sam since he was at Hibs and have followed his career. So he is in training with us and that’s where it is at the moment.  Sam trained very well yesterday and is a player I know really well. I saw him coming through as a kid at Hibs. He made his debut the same day I did. It would have been great as a kid making his debut at Ibrox, although it wasn’t so good for me as I was sent off. I know him as a person and a player. I worked a lot with him at Hibs. Going to the States didn’t really work out the way he would have wanted because of Covid. So he is in training with us.'

On McMullan:

'Paul is a player I have admired for a while but I don’t like talking about other club’s players He is a player I saw a lot of when he was on loan at St Mirren and Dunfermline. So I have been aware of him for a while and obviously he had a great season last year. But as I said, he is another club’s player, so that’s all I can really say on that.'

McPake also confirms that Legzdins and Afolabi are back in training.

 

 

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I was a big fan of McMullan when he was at Dunfermline, really exciting player in that when he got the ball he was driving at the full back, was gutted we couldn't sign him permanently and he was off to Dundee United where he seemed to add some end product to his game last season. As far as wingers at this level go he's about as good as you could want... 

 

However I can't help but have the feeling he just won't do well at Dundee, and about 90% of that is down to McPake. 

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On 07/12/2020 at 03:14, stu2910 said:

 


I do agree some of the signings are a bit uninspired, but I wouldn’t be surprised if finances decided a lot of it. Since the start of the season we have had positive news regarding the insurance money while we also now have light at the end of the tunnel with the virus so that’s probably freed some cash up.

We played preseason with a reasonable squad but within weeks it was decimated by injuries. Debatable who’s fault that is if anyone’s but looking at the bench on Saturday made for much better reading. The worst players there were Ferrie, Forster and Sow, rather than the best players being untested teenagers. We will find out for certain what this squad is capable of in the run into the new year as this is about as tough a run of fixtures as we will have all season.

 

You could be right about the finances thing, but that, if true, is an incredibly shortsighted way of running the club. 'Tripping over a pound to save a pence' type of thinking. The family that owns our club is worth north of 300m US$ so if Nelms left JmP hamstrung budget wise in the summer window then you reap what you sow especially in a shortened season.

Of course now after we started the season shambolically we are trying to play catch up on and off the pitch. Flailing around looking for a goalie (found only to be immediately injured) to replace the guy that McPake has been openly trying to replace for a year, a new player on trial, a rumoured signing of two players lined up for January along with a pre-contract offering hopefully to be converted to immediate transfer if possible. Also this includes the absolute laziest signing in history, both literally and figuratively in Sow who dwells in The Ferry. Oh, and we could all see that we wanted to go 352, so then we literally start the season with just 3 CB's, and that immediately blows up in our face through poor play, injury and Covid. Nelms' fault, McPake's fault, who cares? It's our organisation's fault, and that's the bottom line.

Let's say we finally get a proper squad on the pitch by late January - how many points will we have to make up by then, will it be too late? And for those that say it's easy for me to spend Nelms' money... sure it is, but I never asked them to buy DFC, they chose to. These Texans wanted to buy a pro sports team because that's what a lot of rich guys do, if they ever thought this was going to create any real money then they are dummies... in reality they wanted a toy. At their level of wealth it's Dundee FC that fits the bill as opposed to Man City.

They either want to get back into the Premier League or they don't. My point would be that with January signings to come, the signing of Legzdins, and Stanton now they'd have been better off giving McPake a proper budget to start with instead of after we fall well behind other clubs.

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13 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

I really don't get the revisionism around McCann. He was fucking useless and paying money for Jack Hamilton alone should have had him emptied. 

 

Can't have a go at him for stuff like this yet ignore the fact that he brought in major sellable assets such as Jack Hendry and Glen Kamara in free's at the same time. Not his fault the people above him decide to sell for pennies. 

He had a style of football he wanted to implement which was never going to work overnight. Hate making these comparisons because its completely different ends of the spectrum but look how shite team like Liverpool and Man City were for a good 18 months after Klopp and Guardiola came in - and they had the best players in the world at their disposal. 

I'm not saying he'd have been a messiah by any stretch, but like I've said countless times on here, if you're going to hire that sort of manager, you have to give them the required amount of time, even if things do look as though they're going south.

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15 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

However I can't help but have the feeling he just won't do well at Dundee, and about 90% of that is down to McPake. 

Most people think the same thing nowadays about most decisions made at this club.

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54 minutes ago, CanadianDee said:

You could be right about the finances thing, but that, if true, is an incredibly shortsighted way of running the club. 'Tripping over a pound to save a pence' type of thinking. The family that owns our club is worth north of 300m US$ so if Nelms left JmP hamstrung budget wise in the summer window then you reap what you sow especially in a shortened season.

Of course now after we started the season shambolically we are trying to play catch up on and off the pitch. Flailing around looking for a goalie (found only to be immediately injured) to replace the guy that McPake has been openly trying to replace for a year, a new player on trial, a rumoured signing of two players lined up for January along with a pre-contract offering hopefully to be converted to immediate transfer if possible. Also this includes the absolute laziest signing in history, both literally and figuratively in Sow who dwells in The Ferry. Oh, and we could all see that we wanted to go 352, so then we literally start the season with just 3 CB's, and that immediately blows up in our face through poor play, injury and Covid. Nelms' fault, McPake's fault, who cares? It's our organisation's fault, and that's the bottom line.

Let's say we finally get a proper squad on the pitch by late January - how many points will we have to make up by then, will it be too late? And for those that say it's easy for me to spend Nelms' money... sure it is, but I never asked them to buy DFC, they chose to. These Texans wanted to buy a pro sports team because that's what a lot of rich guys do, if they ever thought this was going to create any real money then they are dummies... in reality they wanted a toy. At their level of wealth it's Dundee FC that fits the bill as opposed to Man City.

They either want to get back into the Premier League or they don't. My point would be that with January signings to come, the signing of Legzdins, and Stanton now they'd have been better off giving McPake a proper budget to start with instead of after we fall well behind other clubs.

Agree with lots of what you said but isn’t the new signings, guys on trials and pre contract deals getting sorted for next a result of the insurance policy coming good?

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With regard to budgets is anyone seriously suggesting we don’t have the second biggest budget in the league? 6th is disgraceful.

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1 minute ago, Fifespud said:

With regard to budgets is anyone seriously suggesting we don’t have the second biggest budget in the league? 6th is disgraceful.

Ohh you’ll get people asking what wages players are on and how you know that now 🤦🏻‍♂️😂

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15 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

With regard to budgets is anyone seriously suggesting we don’t have the second biggest budget in the league? 6th is disgraceful.

Go to the St Johnstone thread. They'll let you know.

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20 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Agree with lots of what you said but isn’t the new signings, guys on trials and pre contract deals getting sorted for next a result of the insurance policy coming good?

Maybe so, but I guess my point is that Nelms could've funded us up front back in the summer with the money he pulls out of his couch cushions and the cup holder in his car then we perhaps wouldn't have been left looking for out of work Osman Sow types that live minutes away from Dens, and when Celtic scuppered the Hazard deal then we could have immediately gotten on the trail of another keeper instead of giving up.

I'm saying this season now that we are in panic mode and seemingly ready to sign players now and in January is going to cost us the same or even more except now we're already in a big hole that could've been avoided maybe with foresight instead of hindsight thinking.

 

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2 minutes ago, CanadianDee said:

Maybe so, but I guess my point is that Nelms could've funded us up front back in the summer with the money he pulls out of his couch cushions and the cup holder in his car then we perhaps wouldn't have been left looking for out of work Osman Sow types that live minutes away from Dens, and when Celtic scuppered the Hazard deal then we could have immediately gotten on the trail of another keeper instead of giving up.

I'm saying this season now that we are in panic mode and seemingly ready to sign players now and in January is going to cost us the same or even more except now we're already in a big hole that could've been avoided maybe with foresight instead of hindsight thinking.

 

I’m in agreement with you but I’d say the manager didn’t use his budget properly in the summer and we now find ourselves in a hole which we shouldn’t be in. 

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Just now, Yenitit said:

I’m in agreement with you but I’d say the manager didn’t use his budget properly in the summer and we now find ourselves in a hole which we shouldn’t be in. 

Oh believe you me I think the situation that we're in has more than one architect. Without knowing exactly what happens in the boardroom it is impossible to apportion blame with total precision. Some of McPake's moves are hard to fathom regardless of what he was hearing from Nelms/Keyes, and as such he'll be the one taking the fall if he doesn't get us out of this mess sharpish like.

One thing is for certain, this Saturday's game is about as big as it gets for McPake. A win in a challenging venue would most likely see us with a much better looking table, and maybe some to build on, but a loss and we're going to be looking pretty much done like dinner.

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No idea why so many Dees think McCann would have kept us up. The origins of that shambles of a season were entirely down to him. Pulled a mini-Claude Anelka by signing a load of utter tripe from foreign lower leagues who immediately proved out of their depth (honourable mention to Karl Madianga), paid money for a Goalkeeper to start in the SPL when in reality he's a League One talent at best, and tried to have a side playing a ridiculous brand of insipid, possession football they simply weren't capable of, in a blood and thunder league. 

That side had no physical presence about them whatsoever. We got totally bullied, and outplayed, by Championship side Dunfermline in our first real competitive match of the season, and it was immediately apparent we were in all sorts of trouble. That just continued right up to the point he was booted. McIntyre was equally as shite in his own way, but it's telling that most of McCann's signings were emptied after less than six months. McIntyre had nothing to work with, so it's no wonder the only players we could bring in were desperation types and no-hopers given McCann blew the budget on complete garbage.

I totally agree that managers with a plan should be given time to implement things, and it's never necessarily a straightforward case of season-on-season progression, but McCann's ideas were totally ridiculous given the league we were in and the standard of player available. We're still paying for his total inability to judge a player, and his pompous "I know better" tactical approach yet.

Ultimately it's on Nelms though. Repeatedly hiring guys who are out of their depth, and sanctioning the signing of utter garbage, proves there's no footballing competence at the executive level of the club.

Edited by Boo Khaki

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Madianga was nowhere near 'out his depth'. He was more than comfortable enough in the middle of the park. 

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