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Just now, Crawford said:

Loves sentences that require an apostrophe?

I'd have both. If I had to take one based on what we currently have, I'd take Murray.

Ouch.

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Given his small sample size from last season, I think Wighton would do just fine at this level. Just sayin'.

I think the reason wighton did so well with us was because he was being told to go and express himself. There was virtually no pressure on him when he came in, and it showed when he played. Was skipping past players for fun and looked like he was really enjoying his football after a tough time at hearts. Unfortunately, even though we are well backed from the boards and sponsors just now he’s probably out of our price range (although if what I’m told he was on at hearts is true, he’ll be taking a big wage cut regardless).

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29 minutes ago, Crawford said:

Loves sentences that require an apostrophe?

I'd have both. If I had to take one based on what we currently have, I'd take Murray.

Agreed.

I just don't see where Wighton would fit in this side considering the two forwards we've just signed, whereas I could see either of them being successful playing off Murray as the main central forward. 

Presuming Murray is still as mobile following his injury of course. I don't think he has enough footballing ability to get by if he's become a bit of a statue.

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Yeah I'm still fine with Murray signing, provided he's fully recovered from his bad injury in South Africa and can run at his previous pace.

Edited by RossBFaeDundee

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Genuinely scary folk would accept Simon Murray as our main centre forward for the upcoming season.

I'd like to know what he will apparently bring to the side? 

United fans wouldn't have him back. Hibernian fans wouldn't have him back. He is nowhere near good enough unless you're just wanting to howk it back to front aimlessly and watch somebody chase folk down Hoping THEY make a mistake. 

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2 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Genuinely scary folk would accept Simon Murray as our main centre forward for the upcoming season.

I'd like to know what he will apparently bring to the side? 

United fans wouldn't have him back. Hibernian fans wouldn't have him back. He is nowhere near good enough unless you're just wanting to howk it back to front aimlessly and watch somebody chase folk down Hoping THEY make a mistake. 

He scored 10 for United when he was last at this level and was an absolute nightmare to play against, his physicality and pace were a constant pain. I get that he looked like a diddy in the prem apparently, but having seen him, Jak and Mullen at this level I'd take Murray by a long way. 

 

Providing he's recovered. 

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Last season we had a centre forward who had previously scored 20+ in the division above, yet we struggled for goals for much of the season and couldn't play in a  way that exploited that particular player's qualities. Being a successful side isn't about the individual quality of one particular player.

If Dundee genuinely believe they should be pushing for promotion, then it follows that they should be looking to be on the front foot in most matches, doing more attacking than the opponent, and playing the game mainly in the oppositions half. We couldn't do that at all for most of last season despite having a striker that's individually a better player than Murray, but provided the other flaws in last season's approach are rectified, I still think Murray is more than capable of being a useful centre forward for a team with promotion chasing aspirations. He's a physical nuisance to play against, which should in theory help the team hold the ball further up the pitch and compress the play, and although it's clear he's not a prolific goal scorer, he really shouldn't have to be if the rest of the side also carries their weight.

Pound for pound I think Hemmings is still a far superior player than Murray overall, but strangely enough I think Murray would have been more effective than Hemmings was last season given the exact same role and with the team playing the same way, and I also think he can be a very effective player at Championship level if, and its a big 'if', McPake can actually figure out how to have the side playing more effectively this season. We need to start playing with a lot more urgency for starters. We supposedly had a few players who were of a quality above what you'd expect in this division, so it seems totally counterproductive to play a slow, patient style, when better players can supposedly cope with playing the game at a higher pace than technically poorer counterparts. We made life far too easy for most opponents last season, and I would hope that a player with the energy and workrate of Murray would naturally lead to us playing a bit more of a direct and aggressive style.

Edited by Boo Khaki

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6 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Genuinely scary folk would accept Simon Murray as our main centre forward for the upcoming season.

I'd like to know what he will apparently bring to the side? 

United fans wouldn't have him back. Hibernian fans wouldn't have him back. He is nowhere near good enough unless you're just wanting to howk it back to front aimlessly and watch somebody chase folk down Hoping THEY make a mistake. 

We'd all like to have a better striker than Murray, but i fear replacing Kano with a player of similar quality will be nigh-on impossible without paying stupid money. Murray is nothing more than a realistic option we could sign who could potentially do a job at this level. DABs and Hibees won't want him back because he's not good enough for the Prem, but unless he's crocked he should be able to do a job at this level.

As much as a I like Wighton as a player, his scoring record is awful.  Murray might be a former DAB with a dreadful ginger haircut, but unless he's slowed down massively has a bit of pace, used to constantly harry defenders and was generally a pain in the arse for the opposition to deal with. If forced to choose between the two, Murray is absolutely the better option. Having said that i don't see why we couldn't sign both. Wighton isn't exactly going to have clubs battering down the door so should be affordable for us. 

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8 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Genuinely scary folk would accept Simon Murray as our main centre forward for the upcoming season.

I'd like to know what he will apparently bring to the side? 

United fans wouldn't have him back. Hibernian fans wouldn't have him back. He is nowhere near good enough unless you're just wanting to howk it back to front aimlessly and watch somebody chase folk down Hoping THEY make a mistake. 

Case closed M'Lud...

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5 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Last season we had a centre forward who had previously scored 20+ in the division above, yet we struggled for goals for much of the season and couldn't play in a  way that exploited that particular player's qualities. Being a successful side isn't about the individual quality of one particular player.

If Dundee genuinely believe they should be pushing for promotion, then it follows that they should be looking to be on the front foot in most matches, doing more attacking than the opponent, and playing the game mainly in the oppositions half. We couldn't do that at all for most of last season despite having a striker that's individually a better player than Murray, but provided the other flaws in last season's approach are rectified, I still think Murray is more than capable of being a useful centre forward for a team with promotion chasing aspirations. He's a physical nuisance to play against, which should in theory help the team hold the ball further up the pitch and compress the play, and although it's clear he's not a prolific goal scorer, he really shouldn't have to be if the rest of the side also carries their weight.

Pound for pound I think Hemmings is still a far superior player than Murray overall, but strangely enough I think Murray would have been more effective than Hemmings was last season given the exact same role and with the team playing the same way, and I also think he can be a very effective player at Championship level if, and its a big 'if', McPake can actually figure out how to have the side playing more effectively this season. We need to start playing with a lot more urgency for starters. We supposedly had a few players who were of a quality above what you'd expect in this division, so it seems totally counterproductive to play a slow, patient style, when better players can supposedly cope with playing the game at a higher pace than technically poorer counterparts. We made life far too easy for most opponents last season, and I would hope that a player with the energy and workrate of Murray would naturally lead to us playing a bit more of a direct and aggressive style.

I agree with this but my worry is he's horrific at holding the ball up and winning stuff in the air with his back to goal, if we go the same way and style as we've done for a lot of last season, I don't see him being particularly effective either. We're going to need to build everything around his skillset and have the whole team playing that high press system winning the second ball etc.

I think we're probably still missing a midfielder - I like Gowser and Dorrans but both are old and have injuries creeping in, just feel we also need a younger athletic option in there. Ness is finished and all the youth are more attacking options. Virtanen who was on loan at Arbroath from Aberdeen last season would fit the bill and seems to be able to play a bit.

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On 04/08/2020 at 18:18, doctor feelgood said:

..........nope, nope, nope

GIF-2020-07-28-08-43-03.gif

I always thought that was an unfair vid of the man.  If the pass is delayed his break inside is how to play it.  He did far worse than that, far worse! 😝

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9 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Genuinely scary folk would accept Simon Murray as our main centre forward for the upcoming season.

I'd like to know what he will apparently bring to the side? 

United fans wouldn't have him back. Hibernian fans wouldn't have him back. He is nowhere near good enough unless you're just wanting to howk it back to front aimlessly and watch somebody chase folk down Hoping THEY make a mistake. 

If it was choice between the two I'd pick Murray. 

Murray is championship level. 

I dont think Wighton is championship level or particularly any good at all.

For me its accepting we are building a championship team. If we were building for a team in the spfl you would scrap more or less the whole team. 

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He scored 10 for United when he was last at this level and was an absolute nightmare to play against, his physicality and pace were a constant pain. I get that he looked like a diddy in the prem apparently, but having seen him, Jak and Mullen at this level I'd take Murray by a long way. 
 
Providing he's recovered. 
At this level physicality is really important - unless Wighton has suddenly beefed himself up then I would rather have Murray. He is a complete nightmare to play against - I don't think you could say the same about Wighton.

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6 hours ago, Grant228 said:

but having seen him, Jak and Mullen at this level I'd take Murray by a long way. 

Here's hoping he signs for Dunfermline then. 

5 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

We made life far too easy for most opponents last season, and I would hope that a player with the energy and workrate of Murray would naturally lead to us playing a bit more of a direct and aggressive style.

I'm not really wanting us to try and bring through wonderfully talented youngsters like Robertson playing alongside Dorrans and then just watch up punt it long to Murray for him to chase. He can't control a ball, he can't pass a ball. He can't hold play up, literally all he has (possibly had) is an abundance of pace. If he signs, I'm out. I would keep an eye in though and when the complaining no doubt starts and shit starts get thrown at McPake for signing and playing such unadulterated shite I'll laugh. 

Nowhere near good enough. 

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27 minutes ago, harry94 said:

.....Ness is finished...

Agreed.  Huge disappointment, really thought he would bring something to the team.

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

Here's hoping he signs for Dunfermline then. 

I'm not really wanting us to try and bring through wonderfully talented youngsters like Robertson playing alongside Dorrans and then just watch up punt it long to Murray for him to chase. He can't control a ball, he can't pass a ball. He can't hold play up, literally all he has (possibly had) is an abundance of pace. If he signs, I'm out. I would keep an eye in though and when the complaining no doubt starts and shit starts get thrown at McPake for signing and playing such unadulterated shite I'll laugh. 

Nowhere near good enough. 

I'm in agreement.

Wighton has scored a few goals for Dundee... went to heart's and em did zero and scored a few for Arbroath. He is now 23 years old ( didn't realise that) and has really did f**k all . ( that one goal though he can live off of).

However no matter what we can still blame Mcpake ( derryed out his nut as he checked up on our history ) as I presume these are all his signings.

I expect a few players still to come in or I hope so.

 

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24 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

I'm in agreement.

Wighton has scored a few goals for Dundee... went to heart's and em did zero and scored a few for Arbroath. He is now 23 years old ( didn't realise that) and has really did f**k all . ( that one goal though he can live off of).

However no matter what we can still blame Mcpake ( derryed out his nut as he checked up on our history ) as I presume these are all his signings.

I expect a few players still to come in or I hope so.

 

Bit passive aggressive this morning, Gman.

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Simon Murray is fairly shite but the league is very shite so he’s more than good enough at this level.

He’d probably score more than Hemmings did.

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Absolutely love Craig Wighton. Signed him in the Championship for Kelty Hearts and only another 3 seasons he took us into Europe. Became a club legend. Never a better False Nine have I ever had. 

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