All things Dundee FC

[RossBFaeDundee]

4 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Sorry Ross but I can’t take you serious if you honestly think Levein isn’t a better manager than McPake. 

He's not coming anyway no matter how much you want him to, so it isn't even relevant what I think of him. Silly, silly reason to dismiss an argument.

I really want to find some common ground here but I very much doubt in that happening. Until somebody finds a realistic alternate (or a Dee wins the lottery and hires Jr or whoever), I will continue to back McPake so long as we are winning most of our games, as there's nobody out there who is realistically available who I think could do better.

[johnnydun]

5 minutes ago, srw said:

So your plan is to stick with a poor manager because its better than trying to get the right one?

Quote Alex Ferguson at Man Utd, he always get pulled out the hat as what happens when you keep the faith.

I think McPake is progressing and sticking with him is the right choice.

[srw]

6 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

It’s acceptable for me because, United game aside, I’ve seen marked improvements since the Patrick Thistle game. Like the other Ross said above, we’ll see the reaction we get for the ICT game. If we win up there would your opinion change?

I actually disagree that we look gutless. We’ve dug in at times this season to grind out results when we’ve maybe struggled to get footholds in the game (eg. Morton).

I realise that this league is a bugger to get out of, but that’s where constantly sacking managers since Paul Hartley has gotten us. We were just outside the top 6 in the division above until we started on the managerial merry go round.

Hartley was sacked when we were 11th.

This entire disagreement comes down to a difference in opinion about what we see. You see progress, I don't, you see cohesion, I see a mess. Lets be honest, we could debate/argue all day, without changing anyones opinion.

If we finish second, win the playoff, and get promoted, I will have been completely wrong about McPake, but a happy man. If I am right, the club will suffer, and we will have wasted a season where we could have been rebuilding. Lets hope Im wrong.

[srw]

7 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Right, so we are where we you expect us to be and you don't expect to win every game but you want to sack the manager?

Now you're not even making any sense?

Yes, because theres no progress, and I cant see him taking the club forward.

His tactical awareness is shocking, he cant get the absolute bare minimums correct IMO. We have absolutely no chance of going up under him, so I would get rid.

Theres perfect sense for you.

[RossDee01]

Did he not win this league comfortably with St Mirren?

He did, so I suppose there’s a 50% chance he would work.

How has that worked for Chelsea? There’s always other examples that don’t suit your side of the argument. 

They’ve done well at times but also had poor spells where they finished mid table in Mourinho’s second spell. They also backed their managers with a blank cheque book which landed them in a transfer ban.

[Dee Bliss]

3 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

He's not coming anyway no matter how much you want him to, so it isn't even relevant what I think of him. Silly, silly reason to dismiss an argument.

I really want to find some common ground here but I very much doubt in that happening. Until somebody finds a realistic alternate (or a Dee wins the lottery and hires Jr or whoever), I will continue to back McPake so long as we are winning most of our games, as there's nobody out there who is realistically available who I think could do better.

Come on Ross. You think advertising the job there wouldn’t be a better applicant than the manager? It should’ve been McCall appointed in the summer. Yenited stepped in when Levein was away to be appointed Dunfermline manager after being sacked by Leicester. 

[johnnydun]

6 minutes ago, srw said:

Yes, because theres no progress, and I cant see him taking the club forward.

His tactical awareness is shocking, he cant get the absolute bare minimums correct IMO. We have absolutely no chance of going up under him, so I would get rid.

Theres perfect sense for you.

Yes there progress and he has not made the same mistake twice.

[Dee Bliss]

6 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

He did, so I suppose there’s a 50% chance he would work.

They’ve done well at times but also had poor spells where they finished mid table in Mourinho’s second spell. They also backed their managers with a blank cheque book which landed them in a transfer ban.

In terms of budget we should easily finish 2nd then if he used the funds correctly.  

[RossDee01]

In terms of budget we should easily finish 2nd then if he used the funds correctly.  

We will finish 2nd. I’m fairly confident of that. We’re only 3 points behind second, which, if is where we’re expected to finish its surely extremely harsh to sack the manager, no?

[srw]

Just now, johnnydun said:

Yes there progress and he has not made the same mistake twice.

Not made the same mistake twice?

1. Terrible substitutions that weaken the team
2. Slow build up play constantly
3. Playing a striker at left wing
4. Being out managed by Neilson
5. Spouting drivel every interview

[srw]

Do other people not look at his subs and think WTF is he doing constantly?

The answer is clearly Yes, because its mentioned on here, on the happy clap board, and Twitter constantly.

He is like a poor mans Ranieri, he out foxes himself, and his players.

Edited November 10, 2019 by srw

[johnnydun]

Just now, srw said:

Not made the same mistake twice?

1. Terrible substitutions that weaken the team
2. Slow build up play constantly
3. Playing a striker at left wing
4. Being out managed by Neilson
5. Spouting drivel every interview

Fucking hell,

1. It's never the same "wrong" subs.

2. Why is this necessarily a mistake?

3. It worked well for 2 games.

4. Different tactics in both.

5. So? Don't they all.

[srw]

Just now, johnnydun said:

Fucking hell,

1. It's never the same "wrong" subs.

2. Why is this necessarily a mistake?

3. It worked well for 2 games.

4. Different tactics in both.

5. So? Don't they all.

Fucking hell indeed.

1. So what is required to qualify? Same players? Same minutes? Same position on the pitch when they get subbed?
2. Because it doesn't work.
3. And the other games?
4. And the same result.
5. Strangely no, some speak a bit of sense. Did you see his interview on Friday night, he was like a rabbit in the headlights, utterly confused and lost.

[RossDee01]

Not made the same mistake twice?

1. Terrible substitutions that weaken the team
2. Slow build up play constantly
3. Playing a striker at left wing
4. Being out managed by Neilson
5. Spouting drivel every interview

1. At times, yes. He’s also made changes in games like the Morton game at home which have won us games. We have a strong 11 but not the strongest squad, so substitutions are quite likely to weaken us simply because those on the bench aren’t as good as those starting.

2. At times we’ve found it difficult to break teams down who sit in deep, again, like Morton at home. But we’re now starting to find ways to break them down so I’d argue he’s learning in that respect and improving.

3. Our options in that position are pretty poor. Josh McPake isn’t up to it, I’m sure that’s something he will address in Jan, not much he can do until then.

4. Can’t argue too much with that one, but Nelson has better players at his disposal. I’d say he learned from the 6-2 derby and McPake at least tried to make us more difficult to break down. United certainly weren’t cutting through us like they were back in August.

5. McCann was criticised for speaking too well in the media, now McPake criticised for not speaking well enough. Pep Guardiola spots pish constantly, that’s an extremely unfair criticism and one which doesn’t affect his ability as a manager in the slightest.

[Dee Bliss]

12 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

We will finish 2nd. I’m fairly confident of that. We’re only 3 points behind second, which, if is where we’re expected to finish its surely extremely harsh to sack the manager, no?

Nah, we’ve sacked manager’s when top of the league. 

[srw]

11 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

1. At times, yes. He’s also made changes in games like the Morton game at home which have won us games. We have a strong 11 but not the strongest squad, so substitutions are quite likely to weaken us simply because those on the bench aren’t as good as those starting.

2. At times we’ve found it difficult to break teams down who sit in deep, again, like Morton at home. But we’re now starting to find ways to break them down so I’d argue he’s learning in that respect and improving.

3. Our options in that position are pretty poor. Josh McPake isn’t up to it, I’m sure that’s something he will address in Jan, not much he can do until then.

4. Can’t argue too much with that one, but Nelson has better players at his disposal. I’d say he learned from the 6-2 derby and McPake at least tried to make us more difficult to break down. United certainly weren’t cutting through us like they were back in August.

5. McCann was criticised for speaking too well in the media, now McPake criticised for not speaking well enough. Pep Guardiola spots pish constantly, that’s an extremely unfair criticism and one which doesn’t affect his ability as a manager in the slightest.

1. We have a stronger squad than every club in the division, apart from Utd. 
2. Struggled badly against Morton to create anything against a team who have been throwing them in, I think they conceded 3 yesterday. We created nothing against Utd.
3. McPake built the squad, I cant give him a free pass for this. 
4. Friday was worse than the 6-2 game IMO.
5. McCann was polished, but spoke positive nonsense. McPake just looks utterly lost.

Edited November 10, 2019 by srw

[RossDee01]

Nah, we’ve sacked manager’s when top of the league. 

And you think that’s the way to go?

[Dee Bliss]

Just now, RossDee01 said:

And you think that’s the way to go?

We won the league after doing so. 

[RossBFaeDundee]

14 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Come on Ross. You think advertising the job there wouldn’t be a better applicant than the manager? It should’ve been McCall appointed in the summer. Yenited stepped in when Levein was away to be appointed Dunfermline manager after being sacked by Leicester. 

Not really, as we did that in the summer and the only two mentioned that even interested me were Jim Goodwin and Derek Adams, both of which are struggling along with clubs themselves. This idea that the new messiah mysteriously appears from nowhere to make us this ideal team is ridiculous. Aside from JR, who I'd love but will be with an Edinburgh team by the end of the month, and CL, who I doubt would be interested at all, there's nobody else worth the risk of destabilising what we already have for as far as I can see. 

[Dee Bliss]

Just now, RossBFaeDundee said:

Not really, as we did that in the summer and the only two mentioned that even interested me were Jim Goodwin and Derek Adams, both of which are struggling along with clubs themselves. This idea that the new messiah mysteriously appears from nowhere to make us this ideal team is ridiculous. Aside from JR, who I'd love but will be with an Edinburgh team by the end of the month, and CL, who I doubt would be interested at all, there's nobody else worth the risk of destabilising what we already have for as far as I can see. 

We both don’t know who applied.