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2 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

In agreement. I don't know who even deserves to be captain out there.
Shite bags right now

This ....and with the squad he's amassed I'm struggling to see what he can really do to change things, play all his central defenders with a two man midfield and lone striker and try to shitfest 0-0's until the end of the season?

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No Chick, sorry Spud, to my eternal shame for the first time this season, I wasn't.
For that reason, I felt commenting on your assertion that Spence is a better option than Kamara is nonsense.
For example, when can you remember Kamara giving a pass to one of our defenders as bad as Spencer's to Waddel last week resulting in a goal against us ?
We're you perchance at Fir Park earlier this season where Spence after 60 minutes good play eventually ran out of steam and dropped a ball to the Jags attack resulting in... guess what?
I don't think Spence is a bad player, far from it. In fact he has the potential to be a great player, but let's be honest here, Kamara has become a full international whilst with US while Spence is still a 'bit' player (not that if he fulfils his potential he won't do this)
Kamara, as far as I can recall had a dreadful match at Pittodrie.
He is probably one of the cleanest tacklers I've seen in over 40 years and his ability to run with his head up and see a pass is superb.
I don't have a stiffy for him. He has to the best of my recollection never had a shot at goal in a Dundee top.
Let that sink in.
Probably the most gifted ball player we have in our team, to my recollection has never had a shot at goal....
I did not intend to have a go at You personally Spud. My issue was with your (probably exasperated) comment regarding Spence and Kamara


Kamara is a young player who may well become a really good player but we will have to agree to differ about his current contribution to the team. In my opinion he is not nearly as good as some think he is. He’s had 3 honking games on the bounce.
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I really, really like Kamara, but I was asked by a mate yesterday what does he bring to the team? He doesn't bring goals, he doesn't really bring assists, he doesn't stop us from conceding.

He's an amazing talent - but he doesn't have the impact he should have on games. We quite regularly get overrun in midfield.

We could do with a Scott Allan/GGH/lazy b*****d but creative genius in our midfield right now tbh.

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2 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

O'Dea taking pelters on the basis of tonight is a bit far. Also, the idea of a captain being somewhat the leader of the team is a bit of a dated thing these days. You're either a leader or you're not, it's just a band at the end of the day.

That being said, I feel it was an unnecessary responsibility and pressure to give Kerr VC.

Ken what, when he first got here he was helpful and undeniably an integral part of our defence for a while. But for the last year or so he has been seriously regressing, I cant remember last time I didn't think he was a liability.

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I really, really like Kamara, but I was asked by a mate yesterday what does he bring to the team? He doesn't bring goals, he doesn't really bring assists, he doesn't stop us from conceding.

He's an amazing talent - but he doesn't have the impact he should have on games. We quite regularly get overrun in midfield.

We could do with a Scott Allan/GGH/lazy b*****d but creative genius in our midfield right now tbh.

Can't really disagree too much with this. However, the 97th minute winner assist against Hamilton suggests otherwise.
We do require a central midfield ball winner in the Bommer or Thompson or Cammy Fraser mould.
That would free up Kamara and wait for it McGowan to play their natural game and produce.
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Kamara is a young player who may well become a really good player but we will have to agree to differ about his current contribution to the team. In my opinion he is not nearly as good as some think he is. He’s had 3 honking games on the bounce.


Spud, Can we at least agree that, at the moment he is head and shoulders a better, more worthwhile contributor to Dundee than Spence ?
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31 minutes ago, Maslow said:

No Chick, sorry Spud, to my eternal shame for the first time this season, I wasn't.

For that reason, I felt commenting on your assertion that Spence is a better option than Kamara is nonsense.

For example, when can you remember Kamara giving a pass to one of our defenders as bad as Spencer's to Waddel last week resulting in a goal against us ?

We're you perchance at Fir Park earlier this season where Spence after 60 minutes good play eventually ran out of steam and dropped a ball to the Jags attack resulting in... guess what?

I don't think Spence is a bad player, far from it. In fact he has the potential to be a great player, but let's be honest here, Kamara has become a full international whilst with US while Spence is still a 'bit' player (not that if he fulfils his potential he won't do this)

Kamara, as far as I can recall had a dreadful match at Pittodrie.

He is probably one of the cleanest tacklers I've seen in over 40 years and his ability to run with his head up and see a pass is superb.

I don't have a stiffy for him. He has to the best of my recollection never had a shot at goal in a Dundee top.

Let that sink in.

Probably the most gifted ball player we have in our team, to my recollection has never had a shot at goal....

I did not intend to have a go at You personally Spud. My issue was with your (probably exasperated) comment regarding Spence and Kamara

The boy Spence must be a quality player, as you have just said in your post that whilst playing at Fir Park, he created a goal  for the Jags after tiring on the 60 minute mark.

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Spud, Can we at least agree that, at the moment he is head and shoulders a better, more worthwhile contributor to Dundee than Spence ?


I honestly couldn’t agree with that, no. I think Spence has been a pleasant surprise, makes tackles, tries to play the ball forward. In essence I think Spence is better than you appear to and Kamara worse. If Kamara is that good how come our midfield is overall shite?
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6 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

 


I honestly couldn’t agree with that, no. I think Spence has been a pleasant surprise, makes tackles, tries to play the ball forward. In essence I think Spence is better than you appear to and Kamara worse. If Kamara is that good how come our midfield is overall shite?

 

The best comparisons I can draw for the two, albeit very far off at this moment in time, are that Spence comes across as a Scott Brown type where he isn't afraid to get in about the opposition midfield and has a bit of dig about him but can also move the team forward. Whereas Kamara has the Kevin Thomson style play about him where he anchors the midfield and looks for the sideward pass and to retain possession.

Please don't crucify me.

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The best comparisons I can draw for the two, albeit very far off at this moment in time, are that Spence comes across as a Scott Brown type where he isn't afraid to get in about the opposition midfield and has a bit of dig about him but can also move the team forward. Whereas Kamara has the Kevin Thomson style play about him where he anchors the midfield and looks for the sideward pass and to retain possession.
Please don't crucify me.


I totally agree with you. I think we should be playing the 2 of them together with Gowser and a n other.
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9 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

 


I totally agree with you. I think we should be playing the 2 of them together with Gowser and a n other.

 

 

4 central midfielders? Didn't realise you were Paul Hartley ;)

I'm on the Spence is below our level side. Better than expected, better than Dunfermline fans labelled him as but not cut out for a team that has top 6 ambitions. Not good enough for our relegation battle either mind you.

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4 central midfielders? Didn't realise you were Paul Hartley
I'm on the Spence is below our level side. Better than expected, better than Dunfermline fans labelled him as but not cut out for a team that has top 6 ambitions. Not good enough for our relegation battle either mind you.


No, the fourth would be Deacon or similar. We are playing with O’Hara and I’ve really no idea what he is.
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McCann saying on the radio that we didn’t manage the game properly despite him shouting at them what should be done.  Surely that’s  where the captain of the team should be doing his bit on the park.  Trouble is O’Dea isn’t sure what he’s doing himself, let alone telling others what they should be doing.


Kind of agree with McCann blaming the players to an extent. I think he's shouldered the blame in a few games but there's only so much he can do when they players on the park don't follow instruction. I actually didn't disagree with any of his tactical changes in the second half yesterday - the Deacon/Kerr sub sounds like it was an attempt to protect a freshly recovered player from potential re-injury.

O'Dea was to blame for both of the goals in my opinion. First goal he's chasing the ball to the halfway line when there's midfielders dealing with the situation - leaving him miles out of position ( which I think McCann alluded to in his interview). The second goal he dives into a tackle and without making a tackle or a foul, let's Wilson run straight past him.

They players have to take some of the blame in that regard. There's only so much a manager can do mid-game and intelligent in-game decision making isn't one of them.

There's no glossing over how bad a result last night was - even at 2-2 I wouldn't have been massively disheartened given the form Killie have been in.
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1 hour ago, DigOutYourSoul said:

 


Kind of agree with McCann blaming the players to an extent. I think he's shouldered the blame in a few games but there's only so much he can do when they players on the park don't follow instruction. I actually didn't disagree with any of his tactical changes in the second half yesterday - the Deacon/Kerr sub sounds like it was an attempt to protect a freshly recovered player from potential re-injury.

O'Dea was to blame for both of the goals in my opinion. First goal he's chasing the ball to the halfway line when there's midfielders dealing with the situation - leaving him miles out of position ( which I think McCann alluded to in his interview). The second goal he dives into a tackle and without making a tackle or a foul, let's Wilson run straight past him.

They players have to take some of the blame in that regard. There's only so much a manager can do mid-game and intelligent in-game decision making isn't one of them.

There's no glossing over how bad a result last night was - even at 2-2 I wouldn't have been massively disheartened given the form Killie have been in.

 

Lets hope this keeps him out of the starting line-up on Saturday then - the guy's a liability !

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1 hour ago, DigOutYourSoul said:

 


Kind of agree with McCann blaming the players to an extent. I think he's shouldered the blame in a few games but there's only so much he can do when they players on the park don't follow instruction. I actually didn't disagree with any of his tactical changes in the second half yesterday - the Deacon/Kerr sub sounds like it was an attempt to protect a freshly recovered player from potential re-injury.

O'Dea was to blame for both of the goals in my opinion. First goal he's chasing the ball to the halfway line when there's midfielders dealing with the situation - leaving him miles out of position ( which I think McCann alluded to in his interview). The second goal he dives into a tackle and without making a tackle or a foul, let's Wilson run straight past him.

They players have to take some of the blame in that regard. There's only so much a manager can do mid-game and intelligent in-game decision making isn't one of them.

There's no glossing over how bad a result last night was - even at 2-2 I wouldn't have been massively disheartened given the form Killie have been in.

 

I haven’t seen the goals yet but it’s no surprise you’re saying O’Dea is to  blame for the goals.  I just can’t believe anyone thinks he is worth defending.  When he first came he was an asset to the team but his pace has gone and without that his poor decision making is cruelly exposed.  O’Dea’s not disciplined enough.  Chasing the ball to the halfway line is a prime example.  Waddell is raw but he’s quicker and scores goals.

McCann needs to be strong, drop O’Dea and place the captaincy elsewhere.

 

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24 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

I haven’t seen the goals yet but it’s no surprise you’re saying O’Dea is to  blame for the goals.  I just can’t believe anyone thinks he is worth defending.  When he first came he was an asset to the team but his pace has gone and without that his poor decision making is cruelly exposed.  O’Dea’s not disciplined enough.  Chasing the ball to the halfway line is a prime example.  Waddell is raw but he’s quicker and scores goals.

McCann needs to be strong, drop O’Dea and place the captaincy elsewhere.

 

Caulker would be an ideal captain

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The manner of the defeat is the most concerning thing, folded like a cheap tent. If we don't get 3 points on Saturday we are in big trouble, I'm seriously doubting that these players have it in them to get us out of this mess. Any chance of getting the chubby baller back until the end of the season? 

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