All things Dundee FC

[dd23]

I’ve said THAT before about Kamara. Him and O’Hara, devoid of, or have little, creativity. Cammy certainly hasn’t developed at the rate we’d all hoped, in fact he’s gone backwards this season under NM.

That’s not their game though. The last quality forward thinking midfielder I can recall us having is Nemzadze.
Scary stuff.

[CanadianDee]

12 hours ago, RossDee01 said:

The problem is, the option after Moussa is Haber and he's even worse☹️

Except for the part where Haber actually scores goals occasionally. People don't like Haber because he is a poser and wears ripped jeans and looks lackadaisical, but I'll take that and a few goals over the trier that never scores that is Moussa! The moose is nothing short of a disaster.

Edited February 11, 2018 by CanadianDee

[CanadianDee]

17 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

 

I just can't see why people rate Moussa ahead of Haber. Haber is limited and will undoubtedly be pish in a playing from the back style (Which isn't working anyways) but he's double the player Moussa is.

I think Moussa gets more credit than he's worth because he throws himself about the pitch a lot. Haber looks lazy and half arsed but is extremely effective at what he does (When it's played to his strengths). Moussa clearly isn't effective regardless of what you do.

I feel sorry for AJLS because he's being made to look pish too. McCann asked him to essentially play a Simon Murray role today. That's not his game. Ajls is nothing more than a penalty box striker. He's like a younger, poorer man's version of Paul Heffernan. Asking him to harry a defence, take the ball out wide and deliver crosses just isn't his game at all. I think Ajls is a luxury player because he's not the best at what his game actually is but we are onto a loser when we utilise him like we did today.

 

 

This ^^^ it appears you and I Ludo are in the minority regarding the Moussa v Haber debate and I'm baffled by it! Haber won us the game at Hogmanay time against the fermers with his ability to turn a defender and get an actual shot (instead of rolling the ball at the keeper Moussa style) on goal. Moussa will NEVER win us a game.

It really seems to be that people don't like Haber the man and they do like Moussa the man based on off the field and on the field 'perception's' of who they are, and I'll admit that Moussa seems like a nice guy that tries hard, and that Haber's fashion thing and nonchalant style on the pitch don't make him an endearing figure. However if one guy gets 10 chances a game and runs around a lot so he is very noticeable, but NEVER scores and another guy only pops his head up 2 or 3 times a game and is not noticeable until he scores I'll take the second guy every time!

As far as AJLS goes we all can see that he is no world beater, but if McCann doesn't grab him on deadline day in the summer then we would be firmly rooted to the bottom of the table at the moment without his goals. 

We can only hope that whatever Parish has been attempting to do the last two games is quickly rectified and he returns to the guy that replaced Bain, and that Murray finds the back of the net because if those two things don't happen then we are done for regardless of how promising a Caulker/Meekings and/or Kusunga partnership looks.

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by CanadianDee

[RawB93]

People don't like Haber because he is a poser and wears ripped jeans

I don’t like him because he’s Canadian.

[CanadianDee]

7 hours ago, Yenitit said:

Not sure it was ever in doubt. School boy error not heading it wide of the goal. He’s not good enough for Dundee. Championship level player. 

 

I used to say on here that watching Moussa was going to drive me to drink (the hard stuff, and I'm no much for the drink, and I had few nips today, didn't help the viewing), but I've made a decision today lads. If Moussa, Holt, and O'Dea are ever in the same team on game day I'm going to start injecting smack immediately, and I hate needles, if you believe in a higher power I'm asking for your prayers (I don't, but what the hell it can't hurt) that McCann will not do this to me! I will need to be in a Trainspotting state of mind to continue watching games. I'm begging the manager to not turn me into a junkie.

Oh, and a word of advice for young Kerr Waddell - if you want to keep your place in the side don't score goals for us. One bright spot for me was Kusunga as he looked solid, powerful, and could pick a long seeking pass to put a striker one on one the goalie, shame it was to the moose who promptly rolled a pass to their keeper. Any combination of Kusnunga/Meekings/Caulker looks formidable.

[CanadianDee]

8 hours ago, G_Man1985 said:

Our support was shite today. 

Said before we need to be doing more to get fans back to Dens

I honestly don't think it has much to do with the pricing although it could be lessened at bit, and there are things the club could be doing to be more engaged with the community, probably a list a mile long that I don't feel like getting into at this point.

The bottom line is that the ownership group need to concentrate on what is happening on the pitch as that is why fans come. Can't score goals against the opposition and constantly ship goals so bad they should be accompanied by the Benny Hill music, and you'll never get fans coming back. 

The Well, Killie, Partick, County, Johnstone have signed about 23 new senior players in the window between them. Dundee have signed 2 senior players (both central defenders). Get the team organized, and not playing like a bunch of guys that were on a bender the night before and the fans coming back will take care of itself over time. Every one of the people that normally go to league games, but took a pass today will probably tell you that they didn't go because they knew we would feck it right up, and we did.  Had we gotten through today I think the next round would been different attendance wise if a home tie was drawn. Getting Caulker signed up is great, but he's not going to make a damn bit of difference as long as we are trotting out guys like Moussa every week (cue the moose double at Killie) after saying that.

Meanwhile our ownership/BOD worth hundreds if millions of dollars are busy talking about crematoriums and hotels, and flats, and skating rinks, and all the potential of a new stadium. I don't care if I'm sitting in a gold plated heated seat with diamond encrusted programs and waiter service hand delivering me a steak pie and drink straight to my seat if I have to watch what I saw today. Spend money on the product on the field, and that will make everything else you are trying to do as a club easier!

Rich guys buying/investing in football teams are doing it for vanity reasons (you don't get involved with DFC if you are looking to make a pile of money), it's always to say that you own a team especially at our level, bar Septic of course. Even the guys that get involved with bigger teams like the Qataris and PSG, it's not a money thing for them it's an ego thing as they are already rich beyond imagination. 

Our attendance will never change as long as we are a relegation fighting club in the Premiership or a top 3 club in the Championship. We can make slight improvements in pricing and be more involved in the community, but it doesn't matter what the price of a ticket is if whats on offer is like today.

[CanadianDee]

59 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

 

I don’t like him because he’s Canadian.

 

I get that's a funny shot at me, but for the record I am a born and bred Dundonian as are all my family for generations, but my teen years and some of my 20's were spent living in Canada due to my parents work, and I am now a dual citizen, but still live in my homeland. But it's beside the point in that I don't care if Haber were from Mars he is still better than Moussa.

I have to say though that in all my time on Earth whether it be Scotland or Canada I've never seen someone who dresses quite like him in the wild. He could still score more goals than Moussa whilst wearing trainers and a pair ripped jeans.

Edited February 11, 2018 by CanadianDee

[Daydream]

Maybe next year?

Doubt it m8 [emoji57]

[Daydream]

The poor crowds at Dens are due to the fact that the team rarely win. We’re always in relegation battles and we rarely compete against the top 4/5.

If we are ever to do a St Johnstone and get regular top 6 finishes, into Europe and maybe a cup win the crowds at Dens would surely improve. No doubt.

The pricing was good yesterday (£15) but the trend in recent years is for folk to skip cup games. If we’d had a derby cup game yesterday Dens would’ve been near full even if it was £25 a ticket.

[Crilly]

2 hours ago, CanadianDee said:

The Well, Killie, Partick, County, Johnstone have signed about 23 new senior players in the window between them.

Well fan in peace.  I can't speak for Killie, County or Partick but we lost 4 players during the window, including Louis Moult, and signed 4 players in the window.   You guys will be paying  Caulker a fair wedge of cash. 

[CanadianDee]

36 minutes ago, Crilly said:

Well fan in peace.  I can't speak for Killie, County or Partick but we lost 4 players during the window, including Louis Moult, and signed 4 players in the window.   You guys will be paying  Caulker a fair wedge of cash. 

I wasn't being critical of those teams I should point out, I was being critical of mine. We signed two guys that play the same position (Kusunga and Caulker), and one on loan striker (Murray) that we had to swap for the guy (Allan) most likely to give him opportunities to score in the first place. Meanwhile all of the teams around us have been very busy including yourselves getting a brand new strikeforce while NM is bound and determined to play a forward that literally CAN'T score in open play instead of getting together with the BOD and saying 'hey lets get serious here and address our flaws'.

I wasn't having a go I just can't believe what I've witnessed the last two games. We've signed two players at a position where we already have about 6 other guys for two spots. Even our keeper who had been the bright spot of our back line going from a no name to Bain's replacement quite admirably has been totally brutal the last twa games. If Murray doesn't score, and our keeper's form continues in the direction it's going it doesn't matter what Caulker does.

Moussa, O'Dea, Holt, get in the feckin' sea! Oh, and take Wolters with you. Thanks.

p.s. I hate Ciftci, and he's lucky he didn't walk today, but I've never had a quarrel with 'Well fans so good luck in the Cup especially if you get another shot at Septic.

Edited February 11, 2018 by CanadianDee

[Shadow Play]

Is the Moussa v Haber discussion even worth it?  Combined they won’t be able to score 5 goals for the rest of the season.   Neither of them are good enough to play.  Same applies to El Bak and Wolters.

So who in the midfield is going to score?  McGowan  hasn’t mastered the art of shooting yet and he doesn’t win many headers in the box so we can rule him out.  Kamara hasn’t taken a shot yet so we can rule him out as well.  O’Hara will chip in with a few but that’s about it.

This won’t happen but McCann needs to be pragmatic and realise that no amount of playing out from the back and nice passing will win us enough points from now until the end of the season.  We simply don’t have the players with the knowledge or ability to play this way.  Play to Murray’s strengths.  Get the ball up to him quickly and see if he can create something with Henvey or Wighton when they are fit.  

 

 

 

 

[Crilly]

10 minutes ago, CanadianDee said:

I wasn't being critical of those teams I should point out, I was being critical of mine. We signed two guys that play the same position (Kusunga and Caulker), and one on loan striker (Murray) that we had to swap for the guy (Allan) most likely to give him opportunities to score in the first place. Meanwhile all of the teams around us have been very busy including yourselves getting a brand new strikeforce while NM is bound and determined to play a forward that literally CAN'T score in open play instead of getting together with the BOD and saying 'hey lets get serious here and address our flaws'.

I wasn't having a go I just can't believe what I've witnessed the last two games. We've signed two players at a position where we already have about 6 other guys for two spots. Even our keeper who had been the bright spot of our back line going from a no name to Bain's replacement quite admirably has been totally brutal the last twa games. If Murray doesn't score, and our keeper's form continues in the direction it's going it doesn't matter what Caulker does.

Moussa, O'Dea, Holt, get in the feckin' sea! Oh, and take Wolters with you. Thanks.

p.s. I hate Ciftci, and he's lucky he didn't walk today, but I've never had a quarrel with 'Well fans so good luck in the Cup especially if you get another shot at Septic.

As a "neutral" I thought your team competed well yesterday but there was a lack of quality, especially up front.  I don't know if Murray will address that deficiency or not.   You perhaps lacked a bit of quality in midfield too.  Yes, Parish did let you down at both goals.  In many premiership level games one mistake can make all the difference between getting a good result and not.

Yes, Ciftci should have walked but a couple of Dundee players could have walked too.  But thats history. 

Good luck to the Dees - there are teams I dislike a fair bit more than you lot. 

 

   

[RossDee01]

If Haber would play every game like he did in the Derby then I'd be more gab happy for him to play. Problem is he's a lazy c**t who can't be arsed to break a sweat in 90 minutes.

 

[RossDee01]

As a "neutral" I thought your team competed well yesterday but there was a lack of quality, especially up front.  I don't know if Murray will address that deficiency or not.   You perhaps lacked a bit of quality in midfield too.  Yes, Parish did let you down at both goals.  In many premiership level games one mistake can make all the difference between getting a good result and not.
Yes, Ciftci should have walked but a couple of Dundee players could have walked too.  But thats history. 
Good luck to the Dees - there are teams I dislike a fair bit more than you lot. 
 
   

Fair assessment. Looking back there wasn't much between the two teams at all. Motherwell took their chances and we didn't. 2 first choice CH's to come back in and a goal scorer in Murray will hopefully steady the ship.

[capt_oats]

McCann's low key heads gone post-match was quite interesting. The whole "I can't put the ball in the net for them" line overlooks the fact that they're his signings. We're into February and his #9 still hasn't scored a goal from open play, yet McCann's surprised that's another game passed where Moussa's failed to score and digging him out publicly. I get that he took responsibility for the defeat against County but it seems like teams are completely fine with letting Dundee create chances because their conversion rate is so poor. Maybe Murray will fix that IDK.

Swello made a comparison in the match thread between Dundee just now and us under Gannon where the only plan we had was to play it out from the back, whether the players were suited to it or not we had no plan B. Intitally it was fine, we signed good players (Jennings, Humphrey, Coke, Ruddy, Jutkiewitcz etc) we pumped an Albanian side 8-1 in the Europa League qualifiers and only lost 1 of our opening 13 league matches (drew an absolute shitload but still...) then the wheels came off, opposition managers worked us out and Gannon lost his mind whilst completely alienating the senior pros and the dressing room as a whole. While Dundee are probably nowhere near in as extreme a position, it doesn't seem that far off the mark to say that other teams have worked them out.

Given the situation Dundee are in you'd think you'd need a dressing room pulling together in the same direction and actually believe in what the manager's saying but this season you've had McCann fall out with Bain (fair enough, he seems a c**t), Haber, Allan was reportedly unhappy and now the Dundee internet seems to be suggesting El Bahktaoui's taken the huff (again, no great loss unless you're looking for someone to ping 12 shots a game over the bar from 30 yards). On top of that you've got Parish apologising publicly to fans in the stands post-match while O'Dea just looks uncomfortable with what he's being asked to do.

On top of all that you've got McCann arguing with fans in the stands.

Ultimately you'll be fine this season because...Accies but from an outsiders point of view it all seems a bit fractured.

Edited February 11, 2018 by capt_oats

[CanadianDee]

5 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

If Haber would play every game like he did in the Derby then I'd be more gab happy for him to play. Problem is he's a lazy c**t who can't be arsed to break a sweat in 90 minutes.

 

I don't agree that he is as lazy as people say he is, he realises that he is being videotaped and any and all future teams will be able to see his performances for all eternity. Some people carry themselves differently, and the way he goes about things isn't exactly inspiring, but I couldn't care less if he finishes a game looking exactly like he started it - perfectly dry, lack of sweat, lack of dirty shorts or bumps or bruises because he MIGHT just score a goal, and today if Parish and Holt don't pull circus routines for their goals then that one goal could've won it for us.

Moussa can run about all game, all day for that matter, and come off the pitch soaked in sweat and dirt looking like a tasmanian devil in heat, but who cares because he WON'T score therefore our chances of winning go down exponentially. In a sport that is often decided by one goal I'll take the former over the latter.

Personally I'd like to give Henvey and Murray a go, but I've no idea about Henvey's status.

[CanadianDee]

43 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

McCann's low key heads gone post-match was quite interesting. The whole "I can't put the ball in the net for them" line overlooks the fact that they're his signings. We're into February and his #9 still hasn't scored a goal from open play, yet McCann's surprised that's another game passed where Moussa's failed to score and digging him out publicly. I get that he took responsibility for the defeat against County but it seems like teams are completely fine with letting Dundee create chances because their conversion rate is so poor. Maybe Murray will fix that IDK.

Swello made a comparison in the match thread between Dundee just now and us under Gannon where the only plan we had was to play it out from the back, whether the players were suited to it or not we had no plan B. Intitally it was fine, we signed good players (Jennings, Humphrey, Coke, Ruddy, Jutkiewitcz etc) we pumped an Albanian side 8-1 in the Europa League qualifiers and only lost 1 of our opening 13 league matches (drew an absolute shitload but still...) then the wheels came off, opposition managers worked us out and Gannon lost his mind whilst completely alienating the senior pros and the dressing room as a whole. While Dundee are probably nowhere near in as extreme a position, it doesn't seem that far off the mark to say that other teams have worked them out.

Given the situation Dundee are in you'd think you'd need a dressing room pulling together in the same direction and actually believe in what the manager's saying but this season you've had McCann fall out with Bain (fair enough, he seems a c**t), Haber, Allan was reportedly unhappy and now the Dundee internet seems to be suggesting El Bahktaoui's taken the huff (again, no great loss unless you're looking for someone to ping 12 shots a game over the bar from 30 yards). On top of that you've got Parish apologising publicly to fans in the stands post-match while O'Dea just looks uncomfortable with what he's being asked to do.

Ultimately you'll be fine this season because...Accies but from an outsiders point of view it all seems a bit fractured.

Well capt, you're basically right about the NM situation. Bain was in the wrong and Parish looked fine up until the last week when he's been bad, hopefully just a blip so NM gets a pass there. But Haber isn't as lazy as he is being made out to be, but he has a different style in that he doesn't run about like a chicken with his head cut off. At Den's Park if you don't cover every blade if grass, and leave the pitch at full time looking like you've just been in a knife fight then you're lazy bastar*. TBF that is an element of our support, not all of it, and I don't know if we're worse for it than other clubs or not. Haber is a better footballer than Moussa in basically every way, but NM is desperate for Moussa to work out so there you go.

Allan was basically only being used as a sub by us if you can believe it so when Hibs tapped him up thru 'channels' he told NM he wanted away. Now I'm of the opinion that season long loans should only be voidable if both teams agree and we should've told Celtic to shove it as they were already taking our best defender, but once the gaffer was told by Allan's agent that he would like to move to Hibs McCann said f**k it you don't like it here then beat it, and effectively announced to the world that if you are at Dundee and want out then all you have to is say 'I want out', and you'll be gone faster than a junkie's latest score. Teams have to get tougher and smarter like 'Well were with Moult.

ElBak's problem besides the one you mentioned is that he is a freelancer so no matter the instructions when he starts or comes on as a sub those plans quickly go out the window and result in Gowser and trying to police on him on the pitch and NM screaming at him from the sidelines asking him WTF are you up to out here? He is not without some attributes, very fast especially against tiring defences, but he's a seriously flawed player that we wouldn't miss.

O'Dea is finished at this level, Holt and Moussa should never play for us again, Wolters is a non-entity that looks a stone heavier than when he played in the Dutch league and is finished here, and ElBak can get with the program or get lost. I support our manager, but his one blindspot is Moussa, and if Murray doesn't score goals for us and Parish doesn't rebound from his horrible last two games then the much heralded signing of Caulker isn't going to make a bit of difference. 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by CanadianDee

[DieDee]

15 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

With O'Dea

Played: 12, Won: 2, Drawn: 1, Lost: 9, Conceded: 24, Clean Sheets: 1 

Without O'Dea

Played: 15, Won: 5, Drawn: 3, Lost: 7, Conceded: 20, Clean Sheets: 3

Thanks for this. 

So 1.2 points per league game without O'Dea and 0.7 points with him. On that average we could be on 30 points (with other teams on less points) or 18  with him (with other teams on more points). That would make a huge difference to our view of the league table. 

 He clearly wasn't to blame for yesterday, indeed one of his better games, but he still didn't bring much to the table. As said before, dropping our goalscorer from last week when goals have been hard to come by just doesn't make sense.  McCann has done the same with El Bak earlier this season as well - scores a goal then drops him when he could have built on these confidence boosters for the likes of Moussa. 

McCann stated he had made mistakes last week - unfortunately he doesn't seem to have seen the real issues.

Still liking much of the football this season and fingers crossed

 

[DigOutYourSoul]

Reflections on yesterday.

Parish at fault for both goals, as he was for a couple last week. He's saved us in a few games but think yesterday came down to two mistakes from him - there wasn't a great deal in the game I didn't think.

Its also not a coincidence, in my opinion, that form has gone downhill since Holt came back into the team, his distribution from the back is dreadful.

Didn't think O'Dea was too bad yesterday.

Kasunga is a big unit and looked fairly solid.

McGowan put in a shift but I thought he had a pretty poor game yesterday.

AJLS looked off the pace but don't think he suits the role he was being asked to play.

Some of Moussas hold up play and target man play was very good yesterday - in the first half he was the best player on the pitch, but he's not a natural goal scorer. If you can get someone playing off him - which I hope Murray will - he's a danger.

Deacon was anonymous when he came on, and I liked the look of young lambert.

Poor finishing didn't lose Dundee that game yesterday - individual defensive errors did.

I'm still confident with Caulker and Murray to come into that team that Dundee will be strong enough to survive.