All things Dundee FC

[Dark Blue Dick]

13 hours ago, jupe1407 said:

This is a strange hill to die on.

If there was any evidence at all that  Dodds might have made a difference you might have a semblance of a point, but there's none whatsoever. Dodds has very little in the way of coaching credentials and only seems to be highly regarded by fellow pundits in the MSM. Indeed one could argue that the very thing Dodds was meant to improve actually improved anyway. We did start scoring a bit more often under McIntyre, however the defence was consistently terrible. 

"Relegation or Dodds" is a risible point to try and make since there is absolutely no credible evidence that Dodds would, or could have made any sort of difference. 

 

Hi Jupe,

I'm not claiming that Dodds would have made a difference. I'm not claiming that at all. 

What are the facts? The fact is that JM wanted dodds as assistant. The fact is that the board evaluated JM record based on his working with Dodds. The fact is that by blocking Dodds, we made our new managers difficult job even harder. And that's my complaint - that we made his job harder. 

You say that there's no evidence that Dodds would have made a difference. Well, compare JMs record with Dodds, and without. Now that still doesn't prove that Dodds would have made a difference, but it is certainly a data point. 

This season was a disaster. And it's been coming. Root cause for me is the failure to appoint a competent manager. I think we got unlucky with Hartley, but McCann and then McIntyre were abysmal.  My complaint is that regardless of what we thought of McIntyre, we fans made his job harder - when we should have done everything we could to support our team in its hour of need. 

[Dark Blue Dick]

20 hours ago, Dele said:

If I was offered the choice of where we are now - relegation - or money I work to earn being given to a man who actively tried to get this club shut down, then yes, I would have and am happy to have been relegated. 

Get it right up the little jug eared rat b*****d. 

Hi Dele,

While I disagree with your opinion, I appreciate your honesty in expressing it. 

Me? I would have been happy to keep quiet at the time to maximise our chances of survival.  Then at the end of the season, I would have expressed my hope that Dodds GTF …….

[Shadow Play]

2 minutes ago, Dark Blue Dick said:

Hi Dele,

While I disagree with your opinion, I appreciate your honesty in expressing it. 

Me? I would have been happy to keep quiet at the time to maximise our chances of survival.  Then at the end of the season, I would have expressed my hope that Dodds GTF …….

He’d be off with a big pay off presumably.  

[Ludo*1]

14 minutes ago, Dark Blue Dick said:

 

You say that there's no evidence that Dodds would have made a difference. Well, compare JMs record with Dodds, and without. Now that still doesn't prove that Dodds would have made a difference, but it is certainly a data point. 

 

He won a league title with Dunfermline and had QotS in the promotion play-offs without Dodds at his side. 

And was sacked by Ross County whilst having Dodds at his side admittedly winning the LC. He had a better WR at both clubs.

[Dark Blue Dick]

8 hours ago, johnnydun said:

Great news yesterday.

His position was completely untenable. Easily the worst manager I have seen at Dens. His record confirms this.

We all knew the statement of "Dundee would of stayed up if McIntyre got to work with Dodds" was going to be banded about once the axe fell. 

We all knew it would be the hymn sheet of the roasters in the press and those in Scottish football involved in the old pals act.

What I find obscure is that Dundee fan @Dark Blue Dick would have to even question, and keep questioning about the Dodds situation.

It's like having a guy have an affair with your wife and and ruining your relationship, then going back to him for marriage advice because his mates say he might be good at it.

No fucking way did I want that clown near my club and I am glad the board listened to us. 

I would of found it very difficult to go to Dens and cheer on that man and the cost of relegation is a small one to pay compared to the cost of alienating the majority of the Dee's in the Premier. 

We will be back up again soon and no doubt back down again in years to follow, it is no big deal, we have survived worse and I am glad we did not stay up or get relegated with that arsehole on the books.

I think we are now in an excellent position with very few players on the books and no management team to completely start from scratch. 

All the board have to do now is make the right choice.....

My view is that avoiding relegation was the prime objective this year. Others have already expressed the view that not employing Dodds was more important than avoiding the drop. If that's how you feel, then further discussion is fruitless. 

I still prefer success on the park any day ……. 

But I agree with your final point - it's now up to the board to make the right choice. 

[Dark Blue Dick]

4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

He won a league title with Dunfermline and had QotS in the promotion play-offs without Dodds at his side. 

And was sacked by Ross County whilst having Dodds at his side admittedly winning the LC. He had a better WR at both clubs.

That is certainly  data point …..

Do you have his complete record?

[Dark Blue Dick]

16 minutes ago, Dark Blue Dick said:

That is certainly  data point …..

Do you have his complete record?

I had a look, let me answer my own question.

I think it's fair to say he's had success both with and without Dodds, and he's had failure, both with and without Dodds. 

[Fifespud]

f**k sake my eyes are bleeding. I was prepared to give Shagger a fair chance and for a while I thought we were on an upward trend but at some point after the Hearts game the wheels fell off and clearly Jim had no idea how to turn it around again. Quite frankly we can do better and by the law of averages sooner or later we must get some c**t in who has half a clue.

As far as the board are concerned, and yes they have made some f**k ups (to be fair we were mostly behind the appointments of McCann and Hartley too), this is the most stable the club has been since I started watching them regularly, circa 1980. Angus Cook, Ron Dixon, the Marrs, Clum and Di Stefano - granted its not difficult to come top of that group of shysters but they are by far and away the most sensible.

[RossDee01]

O'Dea looked finished, I'm constantly surprised how many Dundee fans didn't see that.

At this level yes but could easily have done a job in the championship.

[RossDee01]

I never said remove a player, I just said remove his goals. Been worth 11pts.

It’s the most ridiculous argument in football. You can’t just take out a players contribution - you could do the same with almost any team in the world.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, RossDee01 said:

It’s the most ridiculous argument in football. You can’t just take out a players contribution - you could do the same with almost any team in the world.

My point was more that Ayrs successes have been heavily influenced by Shanklands goals, and that without them, McCall hasnt done enough to earn the adulation hes been getting.

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

My point was more that Ayrs successes have been heavily influenced by Shanklands goals, and that without them, McCall hasnt done enough to earn the adulation hes been getting.

McCall signed Shankland though.

That's an utterly bizarre statement. That's like saying without Stevie May's goals St Johnstone didn't deserve to win the Scottish Cup as if to take the shine off the accomplishment.

Without Sergio Aguero's goals for Man City, Pep wouldn't have done enough to earn the adulation of winning the Premier League.

Utter nonsense.

[capt_oats]

According to The Courier we're bringing O'Dea in to take our u18s. There's a space there as we haven't replaced Stephen McManus who took a similar job at Celtic. 

Did O'Dea do much coaching at Dens?

Edited May 14, 2019 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

McCall signed Shankland though.

That's an utterly bizarre statement. That's like saying without Stevie May's goals St Johnstone didn't deserve to win the Scottish Cup as if to take the shine off the accomplishment.

Without Sergio Aguero's goals for Man City, Pep wouldn't have done enough to earn the adulation of winning the Premier League.

Utter nonsense.

Well no, Wright and Pep both have sustained success, McCall is literally your prototype seaside league manager, with Partick being the one job he excelled at almost a decade ago, until Shankland came along and almost helped him exceed that.

Soon as Shankland is injured Ayr have had relegation form, which is what happened to them last time McCall had them in the Championship. 

[Ludo*1]

9 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Well no, Wright and Pep both have sustained success, McCall is literally your prototype seaside league manager, with Partick being the one job he excelled at almost a decade ago, until Shankland came along and almost helped him exceed that.

Soon as Shankland is injured Ayr have had relegation form, which is what happened to them last time McCall had them in the Championship. 

Shankland 'came along' - McCall transformed him. Shankland was a laughing stock in the lower leagues who had just been punted by Aberdeen. There's a reason it was a League 1 team that picked him up.

McCall has won League 1 and achieved promotion through the play-offs, was relegated with Ayr when they were part time (Hardly a criminal offense) and had them punching well above their weight this season. That is sustained success.

He excelled at his last club too. That being Partick as you note, which may well be almost a decade ago, but you skew your argument there because he decided to walk away from the game for 4 year ie, the 4 year he was without a job.

I hate Ian McCall, but to slate his managerial credentials is just bollocks.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Ludo*1

[Radford]

Ian McCall built a brilliant Falkirk team, one of the best second tier teams of recent memory. And he took over a side that would have been relegated but for Airdrieonians going bust. An Airdrie side he had on the brink of promotion to the SPL.

He's done reasonably well in pretty much all his jobs IMO.

[Dirty Arab 83]

Ian McCall built a brilliant Falkirk team, one of the best second tier teams of recent memory. And he took over a side that would have been relegated but for Airdrieonians going bust. An Airdrie side he had on the brink of promotion to the SPL.
He's done reasonably well in pretty much all his jobs IMO.

Well said, and you can't possibly go wrong with an ex Arab in charge. [emoji476]

[Ludo*1]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

According to The Courier we're bringing O'Dea in to take our u18s. There's a space there as we haven't replaced Stephen McManus who took a similar job at Celtic. 

Did O'Dea do much coaching at Dens?

Yeah, he was basically James McPake's sidekick. He was assistant manager of the U18's from the point Hartley signed him until Jim McIntyre was appointed.

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

Yeah, he was basically James McPake's sidekick. He was assistant manager of the U18's from the point Hartley signed him until Jim McIntyre was appointed.

Cheers. I was just curious if this was him getting into it off the back of retiring or if it was something he'd been working on in the background. He's still only 32 right?

Slightly different sort of appointment for us given he has absolutely zero connection with Motherwell but in terms of profile he seems very like-for-like with McManus.

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Cheers. I was just curious if this was him getting into it off the back of retiring or if it was something he'd been working on in the background. He's still only 32 right?

Slightly different sort of appointment for us given he has absolutely zero connection with Motherwell but in terms of profile he seems very like-for-like with McManus.

Yeah, I know it's cliché to say, but he was well thought of in his work with the younger groups. He certainly talks a very good game. He strikes me as being similar to Craigan if honest. I'm surprised we're not wanting to keep him on.

That said, we currently have McPake whom the board adores and Gary Irvine working with the youngsters.