All things Dundee FC

[Boo Khaki]

2 hours ago, stu2910 said:

I have full confidence that our team is good enough to stay up. Unfortunately the person telling them how to play isn’t.

This is it in a nutshell.

This squad, even with garbage up front, is easily capable of pushing for sixth. There's one single reason why, instead, we're looking like relegation certainties, and it's not any of the players.

[Ludo*1]

It's cropped up in the match thread, and there's always a lot of hyperbole about these sorts of things such as 'Worst player ever' when they're clearly not, but our current strike force of Mendy, Moussa, Wighton & Kallman (Let's be fair - Too early to write him off but he's barely touched the ball in 135 minutes of action) is one of the most impotent that I can recall.

I figured the Kernaghan era would have produced worse, but I'd take a fully fit Simon Lynch ahead of those? Possibly the season we had Jani Sturm, Jan Zemlik, Andy Ferguson, Bob Davidson, Andy McLaren and Derek Lyle? But again, I reckon McLaren and Lyle would have done more for us than any of our current strikers.

I'd probably have Zemlik ahead of Mendy. For all he wasn't a target man, he had nifty feet whereas Mendy looks like bambi on ice when he receives the ball.

Depressing stuff.

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, The Derry Steps said:

You've taken that too far

I assume you're referring to me? I'm being serious, I genuinely don't think our strike force is as good as that sides. Obviously the squad as a whole is lightyears ahead but up front, man for man?

[DigOutYourSoul]

Next week is make or break for McCann.

A win makes things look a lot better, IMO, as there’s already a well defined top and bottom 6 after only a couple of games.

A win next week will give McCann time, no matter the results against rangers and Hibs, to go into the big stretch of games in October time and try and get the season going. A defeat next week and I think he might be out the door giving someone a chance to get the team sorted before the October run.

The thing with sacking McCann is I’ve got no idea who you’d even want to come in. Of the names mentioned Nielson is probably the only one that doesn’t give me the complete fear.

Get it done next week, Neil, and we can see how things are looking after the first round of games.

In isolation a 1-0 away defeat isn’t a sackable offence, but the current atmosphere around the fans is awful so pressure is building. The cup defeat really made things so much worse as I still don’t think he’d take us down this season but any potential excitement for the season is now gone until the Scottish cup starts.

[Ludo*1]

Just now, The Derry Steps said:

Taking Zemlik ahead of anyone is reason enough for a direct referral to carseview ward 2.  

History has been unkind to Zemlik purely because of his height. Yes, he was out of his depth but just because he was 6'7 didn't automatically mean his best role was as a target man. The game where we got put out the cup by Celtic at Dens, he looked like a threat when we played it to his feet. As it is, we tended to just hoof it up the park to him. He was certainly better than Sturm in my book, not that that's hard.

However, my point was, McLaren and Lyle are probably better than anything we have right now and that was probably our weakest strike force in my lifetime.

The opposing argument could be that Mendy and even Moussa could be much more effective players in a team that play's Motherwell or Hearts style of football. I'm not 100% sure.

[Shadow Play]

We really do need a win against Motherwell.  McCann better spend the whole of this week in training practicing to make the other team score an own goal!

[dd23]

[harry94]

It's cropped up in the match thread, and there's always a lot of hyperbole about these sorts of things such as 'Worst player ever' when they're clearly not, but our current strike force of Mendy, Moussa, Wighton & Kallman (Let's be fair - Too early to write him off but he's barely touched the ball in 135 minutes of action) is one of the most impotent that I can recall.
I figured the Kernaghan era would have produced worse, but I'd take a fully fit Simon Lynch ahead of those? Possibly the season we had Jani Sturm, Jan Zemlik, Andy Ferguson, Bob Davidson, Andy McLaren and Derek Lyle? But again, I reckon McLaren and Lyle would have done more for us than any of our current strikers.
I'd probably have Zemlik ahead of Mendy. For all he wasn't a target man, he had nifty feet whereas Mendy looks like bambi on ice when he receives the ball.
Depressing stuff.

Tbh, I have come round to thinking that the forward thing has become a convenient excuse - it can't be the case that everyone we sign there is pish. All our strikers look bad because we don't give them the opportunity for proper one on ones and we don't flood the box with crosses (and when we do, it's after the opposition have had twenty minutes to regroup).

We are perceived to create a fair bit and we do have some howlers in us but a lot of games where we create a lot of chances, they are from positions where we're very statistically unlikely to score. Moussa for example was only three goals under his expected goals stats for the season and although that could be significant, it isn't totally irregular. IMO, the extent of our sitters have been exaggerated out of proportion.

If you've got someone like Mendy playing deep with three players surrounding them and forced to play a narrow game, you may as well bring on another midfielder. He's got pace and in the twenty minutes or so against St Mirren where we tried the ball over the top, it resulted in the only period of the season where I felt we were likely to score.

Kallman has arrived with a reputation for getting himself into good areas and scoring. My hunch is that this will be difficult in the midst of our unconventional type of play and no crossing.

[Shadow Play]

45 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Tbh, I have come round to thinking that the forward thing has become a convenient excuse - it can't be the case that everyone we sign there is pish. All our strikers look bad because we don't give them the opportunity for proper one on ones and we don't flood the box with crosses (and when we do, it's after the opposition have had twenty minutes to regroup).

We are perceived to create a fair bit and we do have some howlers in us but a lot of games where we create a lot of chances, they are from positions where we're very statistically unlikely to score. Moussa for example was only three goals under his expected goals stats for the season and although that could be significant, it isn't totally irregular. IMO, the extent of our sitters have been exaggerated out of proportion.

If you've got someone like Mendy playing deep with three players surrounding them and forced to play a narrow game, you may as well bring on another midfielder. He's got pace and in the twenty minutes or so against St Mirren where we tried the ball over the top, it resulted in the only period of the season where I felt we were likely to score.

Kallman has arrived with a reputation for getting himself into good areas and scoring. My hunch is that this will be difficult in the midst of our unconventional type of play and no crossing.

Moussa scored 7 goals in the league and took until April to score from open play.  4 of these goals were penalties, 1 was in the 5th last game of the season, 2 were in the 2nd last game of the season.  That is poor by any standards for the main striker.    Guardiola would struggle to get goals out of Moussa.

However, there is little doubt that McCann is struggling big time to get the best out of the players.  McCann’s thinking is muddled at best.  He has boxed himself into a corner with his numerous comments about passing football.  It’s an experiment that has failed.

I think it’s a fair bet we will be bottom of the league 4 points adrift come Saturday evening.  Is there anyone, other than the board that thinks McCann can turn it around?

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Shadow Play

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

 

This squad, even with garbage up front, is easily capable of pushing for sixth. 

Its really not. Kamara and McGowan aside, there literally no balance at all to your side. Caulker and Meekings both seem utterly devoid of sense when it comes to defending and seem to regularly be caught out of position, all your full back options have severe weaknesses, your only winger, Deacon, is a player I've literally never seen contribute anything and your attacking options are absolutely laughable.

McCann has you under performing, but theres a massive delusion amongst your support about a lot of your players.

[tree house tam]

I've sometimes thought it but this is the first time I can actually mention it knowing it's true,

Dundee are pointless.

 

[Chewing Taffies]

1 minute ago, tree house tam said:

I've sometimes thought it but this is the first time I can actually mention it knowing it's true,

Dundee are pointless.

 

If only we were pointless enough for you to stop talking about us

[tree house tam]

2 minutes ago, Chewing Taffies said:

If only we were pointless enough for you to stop talking about us

When the big team come up I'll leave you alone. I actually hate those orange wearing fannies.

[Muzziedee]

23 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

Moussa scored 7 goals in the league and took until April to score from open play.  4 of these goals were penalties, 1 was in the 5th last game of the season, 2 were in the 2nd last game of the season.  That is poor by any standards for the main striker.    Guardiola would struggle to get goals out of Moussa.

However, there is little doubt that McCann is struggling big time to get the best out of the players.  McCann’s thinking is muddled at best.  He has boxed himself into a corner with his numerous comments about passing football.  It’s an experiment that has failed.

I think it’s a fair bet we will be bottom of the league 4 points adrift come Saturday evening.  Is there anyone, other than the board that thinks McCann can turn it around?

 

IMO no McCann isn't able to turn it around.

An inexperienced manager can only develop with time. You get time by showing progress and development. This for me is McCann's downfall. This is my main frustration with him. He hasn't shown that much growth in the time he has been the manager. He seems to not know what his best side is, one of Dundee's best prospects (cammy) seems to have gotten worse (maybe he just had one good season?), his recruitment has been hit and miss (don't expect any player to be a world beater at dens), he has failed to address Dundee's main problem when he took charge and recruit a decent striker (Moussa before dundee - P120 17 goals...so he was shit before he came to us...so why did we get him?)

I don't expect Dundee to be a side that wins every week nor play magnificent football every week. I do expect the players to give a 100% and look like they know what they are doing. This seems to be less of the case lately and for me is just a basic standard that should always be held.  I hope any Dundee manager can turn it around but for the above reasons we will all be soon chatting about who the next manager will be more likely than not. 

[Girth]

When the big team come up I'll leave you alone. I actually hate those orange wearing fannies.

You pished again mate?

[tree house tam]

1 minute ago, Girth said:

 

You pished again mate?

 

Just topping up, you still in the pub?

[DigOutYourSoul]

Interesting piece of second hand information about a certain ginger prince from last season. Apparently hated playing Infront of the Bobby Cox because of the abuse he used to get when taking corners etc.

Even taking this with a pinch of salt, as it’s second hand information. In what world do people think abusing their own players is going to make them perform better. I just can’t get my head round it at all.
Fair enough booing at the end of the game but abusing your own players during the game is madness. It’s totally counterproductive but seems to be fairly common at Dens.

Think the atmosphere next week will be completely toxic from the first minute.

[DigOutYourSoul]

Interesting piece of second hand information about a certain ginger prince from last season. Apparently hated playing Infront of the Bobby Cox because of the abuse he used to get when taking corners etc.

Even taking this with a pinch of salt, as it’s second hand information. In what world do people think abusing their own players is going to make them perform better. I just can’t get my head round it at all.
Fair enough booing at the end of the game but abusing your own players during the game is madness. It’s totally counterproductive but seems to be fairly common at Dens.

Think the atmosphere next week will be completely toxic from the first minute.

[Fifespud]

On the plus side yesterday when Kamara slipped the ball through for the Wolf it was a great turn and shot that more times than not would have gone in.

We’ve just got to go to a back 3 if we persist with Curran and Ralph.

[akuram]

In Mail on Sunday today quotes McCann talking about Tony Watt being a cheat. What did he do?  He really tries to make people like him doesn't he.

Did he not see your centre back arms round Tony Watt every tackle?

That's not cheating?