All things Dundee FC

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

14 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

If you're happy with this, then more fool you. We are currently 2 points less off than we were last season. People are saying we're playing much better football (Barring 1 or 2 games - I've yet to consistently see that). We've sold off our best CH and allowed our best creative player to leave. We have a manager that is playing tombola with the starting line-ups with no real consistency to any given tactic.

Is it because McCann is a hero that he's being afforded more time than Hartley? Because the league table suggests he's currently doing a poorer job - Particularly so, if you take into account that he's brought in better players than we had last season.

It's not 'panty wetting' - It's realism. It's easy to fall into the Dark Blue trap of thinking everything is going to be okay, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest it will be. I traditionally stick by managers even when most have turned purely because I can see a glimmer of hope. I can't currently.

I'm not happy, I'm fucking depressed. Thank you.

[Louis Litt]

8 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

He got rid of a midfielder he didn't rate.

This isn't true though, Scott Allan's even done in an interview today where he says that Neil wanted to keep him.

Letting him go because he wants to go and not rating him are two very different things.

[RossDee01]

Regardless of your opinion on him, McCann needs to be given at least one more transfer window to get rid of the rest of Hartley's shite and bring in his own players to suit his system.

 

On a different level obviously but you just need to look at Guardiola at Man City last season compared to this season. Last season he was playing with another managers squad and struggled as he tried to get them to adapt to a different style. One year on, and he's imbedded a philosophy, brought in players that suit his system and the comparison is night and day.

 

It takes time.

[Shadow Play]

15 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

We got rid of a defender and brought in a defender .
He got rid of a goalkeeper who didn't wanna play here.
We needed a striker so he brought in one .
He got rid of a midfielder he didn't rate.

I don't think this is far off being his plan A. Whether the players who he brought in are any good we have to wait and see.

First season Hartley got us in top six .
Mccann unfortunately has lost our best defender within half a season to probably no fault of his own however he has replaced him with a defender.

Time for the players to step up and not let their club down.
 

He would have got us relegated two seasons later if the board hadn’t stepped in.  Yes top 6 first season but he showed he couldn’t create a team for the long term.   

Give McCann a chance.  Let’s see if he can adapt play to get the best out of Murray.

[RossDee01]

Seems like some people would genuinely rather a manger like Yogi Hughes where we will have a team of cloggers, consistently finish 8th-10th in the league with the odd cup quarter final thrown in there with no forward thinking or scope for improvement.

Madness.

[Shadow Play]

Just now, G_Man1985 said:

He also got us promoted. Something nobody else could do in a very long time .

However like I have said on quite a few occasions, our manager will be judged at the end of the season.
Right now I'm expecting a bit better than what is going on. However let's see if that changes :-)

You can’t blame McCann for not getting us promoted in his time here.

[RossDee01]

Does this include if we are relegated hypothetically speaking ?
Starting line up
1. Parish - mccann
2. Kerr - Hartley
3. Basque - mccann.
4 Meekings - mccann
5. New player - mccann
6. McGowan - Hartley
7. Ohara - Hartley
8. Kamara - mccann
9. AJLS -.mccann
10. Murray - mccann
11. Deacon - mccann

8 players
Would you get rid of Hartley's 3 starting players who are left ?

You're completely missing the point. We still have so much of Hartley's dead wood on the books making the budgets tighter for McCann bringing players in. Although we've got rid of a few of them we still have the likes of Vincent, Julen, Gadzhalov etc. That's on top of players like Hateley, Williams, Ross etc. that we had at the start of the season. If rumours are to believed, these players aren't on a low wage.

[RossDee01]

Just now, G_Man1985 said:

However I can acknowledge Hartley managed this. You seem to have missed that part when you mentioned Hartley failure as a manager.

If we get relegated or say finish 11th, who is to blame ? And is it a matter of a slap on the hand and keep everything as it is?

Are we really going into the Hartley vs. McCann debate? It's a completely pointless argument.

[RossDee01]

Who mentioned Hartley first ?

My focus is on mccann and what is going on right now.

It all reverts back to Hartley and his mess he has left us in . Is why mccann needs more time /another window to sort our club out regardless of what league we are playing in , is this correct ?

 

However I will talk about our latest game. We just got pumped from bottom of the league.

A cup run do we go for or just chuck it against Motherwell and concentrate on aiming for the top 6?

That is correct, but I'm not comparing them as managers. I'm guessing that you disagree then and you actually believe players like Hateley, Vincent etc. are good? IMO he needs a transfer window where he can replace this dross.

 

Of course we go for a cup run. This Saturday is a good chance to get the confidence back up after a poor performance yesterday.

[Fifespud]

The fact that McCann was a great wee player for us at the start of his career, that he came back and helped us for nothing when we were in the shite, saved us from relegation last season, inherited a very poor squad and seems like an all round decent guy buys him some time from me.

Whether he stays on if we get relegated would depend on the manner of the results between now and then. 10 performances like yesterday and its doon the road I’m afraid.

But this team constantly surprises us, good and bad, in equal measure, so who knows what lies ahead.

He has made mistakes and the signing of the new defender seems very rash to me. The chances of him being better than Gadz have got to be very slim.

I go back to Mark O’Hara as CH. He should see how Jack Hendry gets a 7 figure move after 20 games there as proof as how few decent central defenders there are out there, comfortable on the ball. He’s a bang average midfielder and always will be.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Some real heads gone here.

So we lost to Ross County - given our previous shit results against them should it be a surprise? We've, for whatever reason, always struggled against them.

Every team has a bad day - remember Well's 5-0 down at halftime against us? That didn't suddenly make them a bad team just a team that on the day didn't perform and where the manager got his tactics wrong.

Sound familiar?

I think even without Hendry and Allan we still have a squad more than capable of keeping us up - it's getting the right selection and formation that matters - we saw earlier in the season that even with Hendry and Allan it took a little time for the team to gel. McCann admitted himself that he got it badly wrong yesterday - the lack of width was a big big mistake. Still don't think he had his best possible defence either - get that right and in place and unchanged then we will improve. There is still creativity there and Murray does provide something different but he needs to be used correctly.

If we start to panic then that's when it rubs off on the team - keep calm and grind the points out. A draw yesterday wouldn't have been a disaster - perhaps that's what we should be looking for as a minimum in our next 3 games?

[RossDee01]

You're guess would be wrong. Would you still have mccann if we got relegated?

Yes.

[capt_oats]

36 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Every team has a bad day - remember Well's 5-0 down at halftime against us? That didn't suddenly make them a bad team just a team that on the day didn't perform and where the manager got his tactics wrong.

Sound familiar?

I beg to differ.

We were on a run of 1 win in 6, the Dundee result was our 5th loss on the bounce, we had been pumped 7-2 by Aberdeen and our aggregate score through February was 17-3 against. We were a fucking awful team. 

On that 5-1 game though, you're correct, as much as anything it was about us playing an inexperienced back 4 (comprising Jack McMillan, Ben Heneghan, Zak Jules and Joe fucking Chalmers) who had literally never played together with an absolute bombscare in goals behind them.

It's not an stretch to say that only reason we stayed up was because we emptied McGhee and got Robinson in who successfully managed to set us up to shitfest our way to results and make decisions like getting Craig Samson as far to f**k from our goals as possible.

Edited February 4, 2018 by capt_oats

[ravabelli]

Heads gone or not facts are we've been bottom or skirting around the relegation/playoff spot all season so I'm not quite getting the optimism of some guys on here who seem to think we're better than we are? Our relegation rivals have had injuries and are getting players back or like County have strengthened their squad, we haven't and are weaker than we were a week ago! Murray will score I think but needs service from a bang average midfield with the exception of Kamara and O'Hara at times, there's little flair there. 

We were utterly horsed yesterday at home by the bottom of the league, we know that and so do the players, confidence will be dented severely. McCann has a massive job picking them up and as I've stated previously he's a novice/ beginner at this game, straight in at the deep end in the top league up against seasoned pros with much more experience. I wish him all the best but think about it, forget budgets and look at that squad, realistically 10th would be a result

Edited February 4, 2018 by ravabelli

[rainbowrising]

I worry when a manager speaks of how he has to shoulder the blame but the players have to as well. Creates an image that the two arent connected the way they should be.

[Fifespud]

Heads gone or not facts are we've been bottom or skirting around the relegation/playoff spot all season so I'm not quite getting the optimism of some guys on here who seem to think we're better than we are? Our relegation rivals have had injuries and are getting players back or like County have strengthened their squad, we haven't and are weaker than we were a week ago! Murray will score I think but needs service from a bang average midfield with the exception of Kamara and O'Hara at times, there's little flair there. 
We were utterly horsed yesterday at home by the bottom of the league, we know that and so do the players, confidence will be dented severely. McCann has a massive job picking them up and as I've stated previously he's a novice/ beginner at this game, straight in at the deep end in the top league up against seasoned pros with much more experience. I wish him all the best but think about it, forget budgets and look at that squad, realistically 10th would be a result

I agree with most of that except your comments re midfield. O’Hara has an eye for a goal but no flair whatsoever. Kamara has a lot of qualities but he is slightly lacking in flair at this time and he gives the ball away far too much. The only midfielder with flair we have is Gowser yet he gets the most criticism. If he gave the ball away as much as Kamara he’d get crucified. I’d say flair in midfield is where we are lacking so in that, we agree.

I don’t think there are too many ‘heads gone’. Ludo is the most upset but he is a very loyal supporter - goes to tonnes of games and an ever present on here and he is perfectly entitled to his opinion without getting abuse.

[Savage Henry]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

I beg to differ.

We were on a run of 1 win in 6, the Dundee result was our 5th loss on the bounce, we had been pumped 7-2 by Aberdeen and our aggregate score through February was 17-3 against. We were a fucking awful team. 

On that 5-1 game though, you're correct, as much as anything it was about us playing an inexperienced back 4 (comprising Jack McMillan, Ben Heneghan, Zak Jules and Joe fucking Chalmers) who had literally never played together with an absolute bombscare in goals behind them.

It's not an stretch to say that only reason we stayed up was because we emptied McGhee and got Robinson in who successfully managed to set us up to shitfest our way to results and make decisions like getting Craig Samson as far to f**k from our goals as possible.

Kilmarnock against Celtic are a perfect example of that.  They were awful to watch, but Celtic didn't lay a finger on them.  They'll be fine, even though they aren't any better 1-11 than some of the other relegation candidates.  They are much better managed than most of the teams in the division though.  Hamilton, County and Dundee are fighting it out to see which team can be the best shitfester.  It's one of the problems with having such a small, tight league.

[RossDee01]

I worry when a manager speaks of how he has to shoulder the blame but the players have to as well. Creates an image that the two arent connected the way they should be.

He's right though. He set the team up wrong but that doesn't forgive that woeful performance. Both have to take responsibility for yesterday.

[RossDee01]

Kilmarnock against Celtic are a perfect example of that.  They were awful to watch, but Celtic didn't lay a finger on them.  They'll be fine, even though they aren't any better 1-11 than some of the other relegation candidates.  They are much better managed than most of the teams in the division though.  Hamilton, County and Dundee are fighting it out to see which team can be the best shitfester.  It's one of the problems with having such a small, tight league.

Not sure I agree. I would say Killie have a better and more experienced side than any of the bottom few. Excluding maybe County now with the signing of the likes of N'Gog but still think he's a bit of a donkey.

They also have the spark of Jordon Jones who can create something out of very little. Something I haven't seen from any of the other teams in the bottom half.

[Savage Henry]

36 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

Not sure I agree. I would say Killie have a better and more experienced side than any of the bottom few. Excluding maybe County now with the signing of the likes of N'Gog but still think he's a bit of a donkey.

They also have the spark of Jordon Jones who can create something out of very little. Something I haven't seen from any of the other teams in the bottom half.

That's fair.  I'd say that Steve Clarke would have County, Dundee and Hamilton doing significantly better than they currently are.