All things Dundee FC

[an-dee]

Steady on, chief. It just seems like it would be a prudent (and obvious) move to state the correct interpretation in such a statement. Right now it rants at the media for getting it wrong (fair enough), then goes on to not explain exactly what they got wrong, nor clarify anything.

I can see what you're saying, but in the original statement along with releasing the accounts information it stated the loss, that our directors had purchased more shares, that the loss involved paying staff off (or something along those lines) and that we expected to be in a better position this year. I really don't see what they could add to that.

[rambling syd rumpo]

Steady on, chief. It just seems like it would be a prudent (and obvious) move to state the correct interpretation in such a statement. Right now it rants at the media for getting it wrong (fair enough), then goes on to not explain exactly what they got wrong, nor clarify anything.

The original statement had the interpretation that the board placed on the accounts. The problem was that the Courier ignored that and dived into the accounts where they were out of their depth. I'm being generous with that judgement. Their failure to correct a false story for more than three days casts doubt on more than their competence.

Company accounts aren't arithmetic. It's not a matter of adding up cans of beans and saying "there are exactly 943". There are all sorts of assumptions, judgements and nuances. It's a bit more like mapping. A map isn't the same as the territory it describes; it conveys information about the territory. Drawing up a map requires an understanding of conventions, assumptions, compromises, and above all a clear idea of the story you're wanting to tell. A map for a driver is different from one for a hill walker. It's the same with accounts. It all depends what narrative you're trying to sell.

I gave a quick run through the net current liabilities in a post above. I was a bit hesitant in doing so, because what I wrote is a wild over-simplification. Sure, it's better to have positive net current assets than a negative figure, but it's theoretically possible to go bust with a positive figure for net current assets while making a profit. Cash flow is king. Profit is just paper. Of far greater importance than a simple total of the current liabilities is what they're made up of and when the money is due. Money owed to HMRC for VAT/PAYE is very different from advance season ticket sales or bonds bought by supporters, but they're all lumped in together under creditors. Seriously, how many people want to wade through a full analysis of all that?

Dundee FC board gave an interpretation of the accounts that was consistent with the pledge they gave in the summer of 2013 that they would not load any debt onto the club. When the Courier wrote that they'd run up debts of £3.2m it wasn't only factually incorrect, it was also an attack on the integrity of the board. It's hardly surprising that the club was furious. The Courier were as good as accusing the board of lying in 2013 and lying again now.

You can place all sorts of spin on company accounts with varying degrees of justification. The spin that the Courier used was well beyond the limits of reasonable justification. They were trying to sell a story, and it wasn't intended to be one that showed the Dundee FC board in a good light. The Courier were either utterly incompetent in the way they did it, or dishonest. The episode leaves them looking stupid at best.

Edited March 3, 2015 by rambling syd rumpo

[Humf]

Interesting that the statement has a go at the media for poor interpretation, but then doesn't state explicitly what the correct interpretation should be.

The financial report states explicitly what the correct interpretation should be. Unfortunately some people were too thick to notice

[Dee Man]

The original statement had the interpretation that the board placed on the accounts. The problem was that the Courier ignored that and dived into the accounts where they were out of their depth. I'm being generous with that judgement. Their failure to correct a false story for more than three days casts doubt on more than their competence.

Company accounts aren't arithmetic. It's not a matter of adding up cans of beans and saying "there are exactly 943". There are all sorts of assumptions, judgements and nuances. It's a bit more like mapping. A map isn't the same as the territory it describes; it conveys information about the territory. Drawing up a map requires an understanding of conventions, assumptions, compromises, and above all a clear idea of the story you're wanting to tell. A map for a driver is different from one for a hill walker. It's the same with accounts. It all depends what narrative you're trying to sell.

I gave a quick run through the net current liabilities in a post above. I was a bit hesitant in doing so, because what I wrote is a wild over-simplification. Sure, it's better to have positive net current assets than a negative figure, but it's theoretically possible to go bust with a positive figure for net current assets while making a profit. Cash flow is king. Profit is just paper. Of far greater importance than a simple total of the current liabilities is what they're made up of and when the money is due. Money owed to HMRC for VAT/PAYE is very different from advance season ticket sales or bonds bought by supporters, but they're all lumped in together under creditors. Seriously, how many people want to wade through a full analysis of all that?

Dundee FC board gave an interpretation of the accounts that was consistent with the pledge they gave in the summer of 2013 that they would not load any debt onto the club. When the Courier wrote that they'd run up debts of £3.2m it wasn't only factually incorrect, it was also an attack on the integrity of the board. It's hardly surprising that the club was furious. The Courier were as good as accusing the board of lying in 2013 and lying again now.

You can place all sorts of spin on company accounts with varying degrees of justification. The spin that the Courier used was well beyond the limits of reasonable justification. They were trying to sell a story, and it wasn't intended to be one that showed the Dundee FC board in a good light. The Courier were either utterly incompetent in the way they did it, or dishonest. The episode leaves them looking stupid at best.

That's what I was going to say.

[eindhovendee]

The original statement had the interpretation that the board placed on the accounts. The problem was that the Courier ignored that and dived into the accounts where they were out of their depth. I'm being generous with that judgement. Their failure to correct a false story for more than three days casts doubt on more than their competence.

Company accounts aren't arithmetic. It's not a matter of adding up cans of beans and saying "there are exactly 943". There are all sorts of assumptions, judgements and nuances. It's a bit more like mapping. A map isn't the same as the territory it describes; it conveys information about the territory. Drawing up a map requires an understanding of conventions, assumptions, compromises, and above all a clear idea of the story you're wanting to tell. A map for a driver is different from one for a hill walker. It's the same with accounts. It all depends what narrative you're trying to sell.

I gave a quick run through the net current liabilities in a post above. I was a bit hesitant in doing so, because what I wrote is a wild over-simplification. Sure, it's better to have positive net current assets than a negative figure, but it's theoretically possible to go bust with a positive figure for net current assets while making a profit. Cash flow is king. Profit is just paper. Of far greater importance than a simple total of the current liabilities is what they're made up of and when the money is due. Money owed to HMRC for VAT/PAYE is very different from advance season ticket sales or bonds bought by supporters, but they're all lumped in together under creditors. Seriously, how many people want to wade through a full analysis of all that?

Dundee FC board gave an interpretation of the accounts that was consistent with the pledge they gave in the summer of 2013 that they would not load any debt onto the club. When the Courier wrote that they'd run up debts of £3.2m it wasn't only factually incorrect, it was also an attack on the integrity of the board. It's hardly surprising that the club was furious. The Courier were as good as accusing the board of lying in 2013 and lying again now.

You can place all sorts of spin on company accounts with varying degrees of justification. The spin that the Courier used was well beyond the limits of reasonable justification. They were trying to sell a story, and it wasn't intended to be one that showed the Dundee FC board in a good light. The Courier were either utterly incompetent in the way they did it, or dishonest. The episode leaves them looking stupid at best.

Well said Rumps but can you simplify that for any Courier "reporters" looking in.

[rambling syd rumpo]

Well said Rumps but can you simplify that for any Courier "reporters" looking in.

Simplify it? No chance. Sometimes professionals need to do the hard work for themselves. Here's a starter text for them.

[Ludo*1]

Evening Tele says that Hartley has spoken to QoS LB Kevin Holt about signing next season.

[SweeperDee]

We are after Kevin Holt from QOS apparently.

[die hard doonhamer]

Hope you have stacks of cash for the compensation you'll be due us if he signs.

[Deemons]

Hope you have stacks of cash for the compensation you'll be due us if he signs.

Of course we do, you not seen the news about us in the papers lately?

[DensParkNumber1]

Hope you have stacks of cash for the compensation you'll be due us if he signs.

We're Dundee FC, We pay what we want

[rambling syd rumpo]

Hope you have stacks of cash for the compensation you'll be due us if he signs.

When is he out of contract?

[die hard doonhamer]

When is he out of contract?

End of the season. He's under 23 and been with us 10 or 11 years though so we will be due a reasonable development fee. More than 2 bob and a donut.

[The Master]

End of the season. He's under 23 and been with us 10 or 11 years though so we will be due a reasonable development fee. More than 2 bob and a donut.

It depends on your developmental category.

First three years are capped at £10,000 each regardless then it's somewhere between £10,000-£90,000 per year for the remaining 6 (it's only calculated up to 21st birthday). I'd imagine it'll be somewhere in the region of £100-£150k.

[Mr Gandosaur]

Absolute joke that there is still no word from the league on when our outstanding fixture against Celtic will be played.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Mr Gandosaur

[SweeperDee]

End of the season. He's under 23 and been with us 10 or 11 years though so we will be due a reasonable development fee. More than 2 bob and a donut.

Have you not heard? We're in stacks of debt, and we're just going to continue to plough on offering 5k a week and 6 figure transfer fees. It's the Dundee way (apparently).

[rambling syd rumpo]

End of the season. He's under 23 and been with us 10 or 11 years though so we will be due a reasonable development fee. More than 2 bob and a donut.

Thanks. That seems fair enough. Queens are due a decent wedge.

[LiamDFC]

Rumple has summed up the situation fairly and succinctly.

That's at least twice this season they've tried to stir up drama from absolutely nothing. I appreciate the necessity to try and sell papers, however there's a fine line between exaggerating stories and simply fabricating information to generate content. I stopped buying it (along with their abismal sister paper the 'Tully') long before I moved out of the City and it has saddened me to see both publications slide to such lows. Like it or not, these newspapers have been part of Dundee culture for many years now and to see them get it so badly wrong (again at the expense of Dundee FC) is a reflection of DC Thompson's unquestionably low standards.

To summarise in language they might understand; The Courier is a tartan Tory, Dundee United infested journalistic sewer overflowing with a substandard and quite frankly outdated approach to reporting.

Edit: typo

Edited March 3, 2015 by LiamDFC

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

They are so fucking desperate to sell their papers you often get a free bottle of sauce or shampoo when you buy a tully.........absolutely tragic.

[The Master]

They are so fucking desperate to sell their papers you often get a free bottle of sauce or shampoo when you buy a tully.........absolutely tragic.

If you buy The Courier in the Wellgate today they're giving away something (else) to wipe your arse with.