Boo Khaki Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Also beginning to think Cammy Kerr is a truly unique talent, in that he's the only player I can ever recall watching who is possibly worse in his 'natural' position than he is played on his 'wrong' side. I said a few years back that I thought playing on the left limited him to the point where he really had to knuckle down and think much harder about what he was doing, and I genuinely think that's the case. He's better on the left because he has less opportunity to make an absolute mess of things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 59 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: You could probably get Jack Ross this time. I’d 100% take him although it would probably save you’s a lot of money so for that reason no thanks just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said: McGuire just looks like another Byrne, only probably even less influential on the game. He needs another midfielder close to him that he can just give the ball to rather than playing pass the parcel with Sweeney. Problem is, we currently are not playing with another CM who can take the ball and do something with it. Personally I would stop trying to shoe-in a Defensive Centre Mid into the squad. If none of them break up play or create 'outs' in counter attacks, then it doesn't work. Play a flat 4-4-2 with actual fucking wingers and support upfront for Robinson. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Get Robinson and Jakubiak together as a front to 2 and have a fuckin go at sides. McGhee should play in defence and nowhere else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Yenitit said: Get Robinson and Jakubiak together as a front to 2 and have a fuckin go at sides. McGhee should play in defence and nowhere else. I still rate Bowyer and think he's a decent manager but how the f**k everyone else can see this and he can't is soul destroying at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Another thing... Why the f**k do we launch the ball into the air all the time? Or even at crosses? We have, possibly Robinson, as the only guy outside the defence who is good in the air. We have players who are excellent with the ball at their feet (including Robinson), Cameron, McMullan, McCowan, Anderson, Jakubiak, etc... play it to feet ffs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Personally I would stop trying to shoe-in a Defensive Centre Mid into the squad. If none of them break up play or create 'outs' in counter attacks, then it doesn't work. Play a flat 4-4-2 with actual fucking wingers and support upfront for Robinson. No sure which pair we'd play in the middle in a 4-4-2, and I'm generally not a fan any more because it tends to get exploited by teams playing more modern systems with players that play in the gaps, but it really shouldn't be a huge issue in this standard of league compared to when we were in the Premiership and generally the poorer team most weeks. Maybe McGuire and Williamson, or Williamson and Mulligan, but either way I think you really need both CM's in a 4-4-2 to be able to get up and down the pitch, play with the ball at their feet, and be willing and able to track runners and do the shitwork, and I'm not certain we have two I trust completely to do all of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Just now, johnnydun said: Another thing... Why the f**k do we launch the ball into the air all the time? Or even at crosses? We have, possibly Robinson, as the only guy outside the defence who is good in the air. We have players who are excellent with the ball at their feet (including Robinson), Cameron, McMullan, McCowan, Anderson, Jakubiak, etc... play it to feet ffs. And another thing, to give McPake a slight bit of credit, under his management we were very, very good at set-pieces particulary in attack (even without Charlie) - why, with a more competent manager (I don't think that's in question - is it?!), do we now seem to concede from a set piece every fucking week and fail to beat the first man with offensive set pieces?! Unreal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) As soon as I heard Bowyer only praising the players for Saturday past the fear set in, how does a team who is being told they're playing well when they're not getting results go into the next one eager to up the levels? They don't, and it's yet another horsing from Partick. I still have faith in Bowyer, but there needs to be an immediate tactical reaction on Saturday. McGhee and Maguire are too passive to play together, Cameron isn't a starter and we need to try Robinson and Jakubiak together. Edited March 1, 2023 by RossBFaeDundee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Another thing... Why the f**k do we launch the ball into the air all the time? Or even at crosses? We have, possibly Robinson, as the only guy outside the defence who is good in the air. We have players who are excellent with the ball at their feet (including Robinson), Cameron, McMullan, McCowan, Anderson, Jakubiak, etc... play it to feet ffs. Mentioned this earlier, but there were a lot of occasions both tonight and against Morton when Sweeney was given all the time he wanted on the ball on or near the half-way line, and there wasn't a single Dundee player in the 20-25 yards of space in front of him. If nobody is willing to come and take the ball, and they are all just going to hang up the pitch and let the opponent midfield collapse back on to their backline, mark up, and leave no space, then it's easy to see how it just descends into the ball getting hoofed and losing it straight away. It's a midfield issue as much as it is the defenders hoofing it. They have to come deeper and try and play the ball through, but we're not playing CM's who can or will do that. Gowser would have been ideal in both games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said: Gowser would have been ideal in both games. 100%. At least he would have also been bathered for the full 90 and not just the last 20, like some of the shysters on show tonight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: And another thing, to give McPake a slight bit of credit, under his management we were very, very good at set-pieces particulary in attack (even without Charlie) - why, with a more competent manager (I don't think that's in question - is it?!), do we now seem to concede from a set piece every fucking week and fail to beat the first man with offensive set pieces?! Unreal. Or we beat the first man, plus every other c**t and it heads straight out. It is not difficult to cross a ball to head height in between the pen spot and the 6 yard box. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: And another thing, to give McPake a slight bit of credit, under his management we were very, very good at set-pieces particulary in attack (even without Charlie) - why, with a more competent manager (I don't think that's in question - is it?!), do we now seem to concede from a set piece every fucking week and fail to beat the first man with offensive set pieces?! Unreal. Bloody annoys me how ever corner is just a dinked floater to the six yard box/penalty spot. Fair enough if you are a team of brick shithouses and you can totally bully the opponent in their own box, but we aren't. It's much easier to defend or for the GK to claim than a driven, moving ball, and while I accept that you won't see many genuine dead-ball masters capable of delivering accurate but moving crosses in the Championship, these guys have all fucking week to practice something better than a lame chipped floater. It stinks to high heaven of 'nobody can be arsed' and looks like it's just left to be a complete afterthought. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 minute ago, johnnydun said: It is not difficult to cross a ball to head height in between the pen spot and the 6 yard box. 1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said: Bloody annoys me how ever corner is just a dinked floater to the six yard box/penalty spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, johnnydun said: It's true enough though. The ball isn't fucking moving. You have all day to practice hitting it firmly but accurately to a general area, but time after time we get the weak floater that is easily dealt with or grabbed by the GK. It looks like it just isn't practiced at all. Actually, the penalty kicks as well. If you want more evidence of a team that doesn't give a toss about practicing set pieces and dead ball stuff... Edited March 1, 2023 by Boo Khaki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: Mentioned this earlier, but there were a lot of occasions both tonight and against Morton when Sweeney was given all the time he wanted on the ball on or near the half-way line, and there wasn't a single Dundee player in the 20-25 yards of space in front of him. If nobody is willing to come and take the ball, and they are all just going to hang up the pitch and let the opponent midfield collapse back on to their backline, mark up, and leave no space, then it's easy to see how it just descends into the ball getting hoofed and losing it straight away. It's a midfield issue as much as it is the defenders hoofing it. They have to come deeper and try and play the ball through, but we're not playing CM's who can or will do that. Gowser would have been ideal in both games. The midfield partnership of McGhee & Maguire is absolutely brutal. Individually in the right system they're good to decent players (McGhee as a CH and perhaps Maguire in a midfield 3) - neither want the ball from the defence though. And Ashcroft and Sweeney are only absolutely delighted to punt to no-one or out of play. As @johnnydun says, McGowan absolutely wouldn't allow that to happen in midfield. His pirouettes are already greatly missed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: As @johnnydun says, McGowan absolutely wouldn't allow that to happen in midfield. His pirouettes are already greatly missed. They opened up the play and created space. Can't forgive Bowyer for letting him go....ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I still don't believe that's a footballing decision. We're totally lacking a playmaker of some sort, and we sorely missed him earlier in the season when he was in and out of the team, so I can't believe a manager of Bowyer's experience can't recognise that or hasn't noted the difference earlier in the season when he was/was not available. Something has happened that has made it totally impossible for Gowser to be in the dressing room on match days. He was supposedly 'close' for weeks, yet never once appeared on the bench. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: I can't believe a manager of Bowyer's experience can't recognise that He plays Mulligan out wide with McCowan on the bench. I can totally believe he can't recognise that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Just now, johnnydun said: He plays Mulligan out wide with McCowan on the bench. I can totally believe he can't recognise that. Fair point. Funnily enough, I'm sure most of the feedback on Mulligan from Peterhead fans last season said that he ran the show regardless of whether he played on the right or through the middle. Different level of league of course, but all the good stuff I've seen from him in a Dundee shirt, the wee cameos at the end of last season and the earlier part of this, have come when he's been given the role of driving through the middle from deep. It's difficult to understand then why Bowyer plays him out wide constantly. I don't think he's totally ineffective, because he does provide a decent outlet and does seem to be able to hold the ball up even though he's stuck out wide, but I think he has the ability to be a genuine game winner playing through the middle and we're not getting to see that. It's frustrating. I thought he looked like he needed a wee break from the team earlier in the season, round about the time we went on the unbeaten run, so it grates a bit to see him being played all the way through and still getting game time even now. Also a bit baffling how when he comes on he invariably improves the overall cohesiveness of the team and somewhat rectifies the problems of the first half... yet the next week he's back on the bench, again... I know a lot of fans hate three at the back because there are no genuine wingers, but I honestly thought that was our set up for the rest of this season. I'd like to see it played with McGuire, Mulligan, and A.N. Other in the middle. I thought McMullan playing off the striker worked ok because it still permitted him to drift out wide and play like a winger when it suited, and I think Jak playing off Robinson could be much the same. The only reason I can think of for Bowyer abandoning that is the injury to French, but I don't think having a CB who is willing to come forward with the ball is a make-or-break part of that set-up anyway. It's all very strange. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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