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8 hours ago, Shadow Play said:

 

Byrne and McGinn are going nowhere.  They can’t move on from us because they are still too busy still  laughing at the deals Nelms gave them - and I don’t blame them.


 

 

When does brynes deal run out?  We were rumoured to be after him in the summer and that’s likely to be stronger in January.  We’re unlikely to contribute enough wages to make bowyer jump at at but if he’s refusing to play him the surely any contribution is better than nothing. 

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2 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

When does brynes deal run out?  We were rumoured to be after him in the summer and that’s likely to be stronger in January.  We’re unlikely to contribute enough wages to make bowyer jump at at but if he’s refusing to play him the surely any contribution is better than nothing. 

Summer 2024.

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So, over a third of the way through the season and we are joint 6th top / joint 4th bottom.
Is there anyone on here seriously thinks Bowyer even remotely deserves pass marks so far?  Yes they are mostly not his players but even so.  Shocking when you consider our playing budget  is probably the best in the league. 
I really don’t think Bowyer understood what this league is all about when he joined and unfortunately it doesn’t look like he’s a quick learner.  At least he’s got something in common with Nelms!
 
Ludo.
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Just now, DeeTillEhDeh said:
4 hours ago, Shadow Play said:
So, over a third of the way through the season and we are joint 6th top / joint 4th bottom.
Is there anyone on here seriously thinks Bowyer even remotely deserves pass marks so far?  Yes they are mostly not his players but even so.  Shocking when you consider our playing budget  is probably the best in the league. 
I really don’t think Bowyer understood what this league is all about when he joined and unfortunately it doesn’t look like he’s a quick learner.  At least he’s got something in common with Nelms!
 

Ludo.

Where did I say he gets pass marks?

Stop making shite up ffs.

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10 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:
1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:
Where did I say he gets pass marks?
Stop making shite up ffs.

Ah - so he is a failure then?

Has the league finished?

Just because I think there are very pertinent reasons unrelated to Bowyer for us being shit doesn't mean I agree with every decision he makes.

Think it's laughable to be trying to write a manager off as a 'failure' after 13 games without his own squad though.

Edited by Ludo*1
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20 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Sorry but this is tosh.

Our club has never been as stable in my lifetime.

I don't know what your timescale is here, but given the various utter shitshows I've seen at boardroom level since the late 80s, that's not a particularly high bar 😂

I'll probably get pelters for this, but to be brutally honest our natural place these days is an upper-level second tier club that occasionally punches through the first tier, maybe had a good season and stays, or more likely gets generally rinsed and fucked straight back down. We haven't been an established top-tier club since the early to late eighties. This is entirely due to chronic mismanagement at boardroom level which has filtered down to absolute fuckwittery in manager selection, player sales and player recruitment. It is of course entirely possible that we can get up at some point and establish ourselves in the top division, however that needs competence on the football side and we haven't really seen any of that in the last few years. 

The common thread running through the clusterfuck of the McCann-Sackintyre-McPake-Bowyer era is of course Nelms. I assume he must bring something to the table at boardroom level other than the football side, because it sure as f**k hasn't been in evidence. There is absolute zero chance of us moving forward in football terms until Nelms is either allowed nowhere near the football/recruitment side, or preferably is fired into fucking orbit. 

Edited by Day of the Lords
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1 minute ago, Day of the Lords said:

I don't know what your timescale is here, but given the various utter shitshows I've seen at boardroom level since the late 80s, that's not a particularly high bar 😂

I'll probably get pelters for this, but to be brutally honest our natural place these days is an upper-level second tier club that occasionally punches through the first tier, maybe had a good season and stays, or more likely gets generally rinsed and fucked straight back down. We haven't been an established top-tier club since the early to late eighties. This is entirely due to chronic mismanagement at boardroom level which has filtered down to absolute fuckwittery in manager selection, player sales and player recruitment. It is of course entirely possible that we can get up at some point and establish ourselves in the top division, however that needs competence on the football side and we haven't really seen any of that in the last few years. 

The common thread running through the clusterfuck of the McCann-Sackintyre-McPake-Bowyer era is of course Nelms. I assume he must bring something to the table at boardroom level other than the football side, because it sure as f**k hasn't been in evidence. There is absolute zero chance of us moving forward in football terms under Nelms is either allowed nowhere near the football/recruitment side, or preferable is fired into fucking orbit. 

The mid 80's is when I remember my first Dundee game.

It has been chancer after clown in the boardroom but Keyes and Nelms have brought a financial stability to the club that has not been seen in my lifetime. They came in to have a slow turn around and build a profitable venue and club, they said this from the start. Give Keyes his due, he has put cash up for managers to spend but unfortunately it has been the wrong managers. Nelms has tried to rectify this by bringing in a DOF in Strachan, and if you go by Strachan's history, on paper to a newbie to Scottish football, it would look like a sensible appointment.

I would agree with you that at this current point in time, the Yo-yo club is our level, but with the youth system starting to show signs of fruition and new infrastructure on its way (this is 100% happening) I think we have a bright future ahead of us.

I think we have suffered a lot as a support, but if we are just patient that wee bit longer, things will come good.

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Has the league finished?
Just because I think there are very pertinent reasons unrelated to Bowyer for us being shit doesn't mean I agree with every decision he makes.
Think it's laughable to be trying to write a manager off as a 'failure' after 13 games without his own squad though.
There's only so far you can take the "it's McPake's fault" excuse.

Bowyer's signed 5 players and ultimately he is the person picking the team and deciding the tactics. You have to question after 13 games why he still doesn't seem to have a clear first choice eleven and why he persists with the same players in certain positions who week after week are either giving away goals or contributing little to the team. Why are Sweeney, Rudden, Sheridan and Kerr still in this team?

You also have to look at other teams in this league - we have the deepest squad and despite being shite McPake signings some of the players are still better than other teams in the League.

Why is it that other managers manage to get a tune out of lesser players but we don't? That's down to man management and building confidence - something we seem to seriously lack right now.

No - I'm not calling for his head right now - he needs to be given to at least January to see if there is progress - but at the moment there are very few signs that any progress has been made.

That's worrying.
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The mid 80's is when I remember my first Dundee game.
It has been chancer after clown in the boardroom but Keyes and Nelms have brought a financial stability to the club that has not been seen in my lifetime. They came in to have a slow turn around and build a profitable venue and club, they said this from the start. Give Keyes his due, he has put cash up for managers to spend but unfortunately it has been the wrong managers. Nelms has tried to rectify this by bringing in a DOF in Strachan, and if you go by Strachan's history, on paper to a newbie to Scottish football, it would look like a sensible appointment.
I would agree with you that at this current point in time, the Yo-yo club is our level, but with the youth system starting to show signs of fruition and new infrastructure on its way (this is 100% happening) I think we have a bright future ahead of us.
I think we have suffered a lot as a support, but if we are just patient that wee bit longer, things will come good.
Having a DoF makes sense but for the reality that Strachan is a neanderthal when it comes to modern football.
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12 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Has the league finished?

Just because I think there are very pertinent reasons unrelated to Bowyer for us being shit doesn't mean I agree with every decision he makes.

Think it's laughable to be trying to write a manager off as a 'failure' after 13 games without his own squad though.

I don’t think you were aiming this at me but just to clarify my position.  I’m not calling for Bowyer’s departure but we need to see things starting to improve.

After the transfer window shut Bowyer’s demeanour appeared to change.  I think he was bitterly disappointed with the lack of new signings.  I also think Bowyer’s apparent despondent attitude filtered through to the squad.  That is something Bowyer should have avoided. 

Any expected budget for signings  is something that should have been sorted out at the time of Bowyer joining the club.   We are left wondering who has let who down.

On the subject of signings I am looking for people who know the system better than me to answer this.  Is it possible that Bowyer knows the lower leagues of English football well enough but he can’t persuade them to come to Dundee due to the fact the wages and expenses being offered aren’t sufficient?

Let me explain.  If you want to sign a player who currently lives in the populated areas of Scotland they can continue to live where they currently do and commute each day.  If you are coming from England you would have to uproot your family / have the expense of finding a new house.  To do that you would presumably be looking for significantly more money.  Is that proving to be a stumbling block?

Partick next week is a massive game.  Let’s all get behind the team and see where that takes us. 

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Surprised there's not been one mention of Kerrs defending for Queens second goal but that's Dundee fans all over. 

Used to laugh when people would hone in on Charlie Adam after poor results whilst Kerr dilly dallied and contributed little in the same matches. The managers seem to have the same footballing intelligence as many of the Dundee fans when it comes to Kerr. Sick to death of it and have been for the last decade.

Thank you.

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Yo-yo club or not, the manner in which we are shipping goals, often against part time opposition is completely unacceptable IMO.

Anyone that thinks there has been any real progress under bowyer is on the wine. The league is utter dross and we are woefully underperforming even with the squad of McPakes duds. 

We certainly don’t look like a team capable of challenging for the title at this stage which I thought would be the minimum requirement for this season.
 

 

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1 hour ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said:

Would say we need a minimum of three signings in January, a left back, a right back and a striker. Anything else?

Thank you.

French covers right back for me. Agree with the other 2. 
 

Any upgrade in any position would be beneficial as well. Bowyer gives me the fear if he’s to chop and change in January going on his previous signings for us. 

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Just now, Yenitit said:

French covers right back for me. Agree with the other 2. 
 

Any upgrade in any position would be beneficial as well. Bowyer gives me the fear if he’s to chop and change in January going on his previous signings for us. 

Said it for ages now, you are all probably sick hearing it, Bowyer underestimates Scottish Football.

Ayr United get a player on loan from Aston Villa, while we get a loan from Barrow.

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