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21 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I completely understand the decision to sign Williamson. A cheap (if not freebie) signing to replace Byrne's supposed huge wage so we could bolster elsewhere in the team. The fact he's been a huge disappointment is neither here nor there.

Bowyer is friends with Billy Kirkwood who likely told him that Williamson is one of the most promising youths at Rangers and we could take him on loan for a pittance and he has the ability to do the same job as Byrne. It's a no brainer. It's clearly not working out as intended but I get the logic behind it.

As for getting a new keeper, I think Sharp, Legzdins and Lawlor are all serviceable enough with Legzdins being the best of the 3. Too much hassle to be punting Legzdins and Lawlor and then sourcing another keeper when there's much, much bigger issues in the squad. Although, I did think we should have tried to offload Lawlor and just run with Legzdins and Sharp - thankfully we didn't in retrospect.

I also don't think Grayson is as bad as is being made out. He can be completely anonymous (as can Byrne at times btw) but I think he's suffering from being in a terrible pairing more than anything. 

Ludo you can’t say it’s neither hear nor there that Williamson is a huge disappointment or not. It’s for the manager to do his homework on the player. Warning signs should’ve been he couldn’t get a game at Livingston. He played the league cup section with Byrne anchoring the midfield with 4 in front of him pushed high up the park and it was working. Gives it half an hour of the 1st league game of the season and bins it after a deflected goal and a horrendous error from Sweeney that you can’t legislate for. Bowyer’s shat it imo and gone defensive. 
 

Agreed about the keeper’s but they needed improved on and 100% and new keeper that starts week in week out. 
 

Grayson is a nothing player imo and behind Byrne, Gowser, Anderson, Mulligan and Robertson imo. I just don’t rate him at all. Very good debut but pish since. Being completely anonymous isn’t anywhere near acceptable. Byrne at least took the ball from the centre backs and started to build the play from there. A good coach should be coaching Byrne to be more forward thinking as soon as he receives the ball rather than replacing him. What do you think of the line up and formation I suggested?

Edited by Yenitit
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2 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

By my calculations* in the league it is 30.77%

*my son got an A in Higher Maths - I definitely didn’t 🤣

That probably leaves 28 games to get 20 wins and 8 draws. That leaves us currently needing 15 wins and 4 draws from from 23 games to win the league. Bowyer isn’t doing that. 

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39 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Ludo you can’t say it’s neither hear nor there that Williamson is a huge disappointment or not. It’s for the manager to do his homework on the player. Warning signs should’ve been he couldn’t get a game at Livingston. He played the league cup section with Byrne anchoring the midfield with 4 in front of him pushed high up the park and it was working. Gives it half an hour of the 1st league game of the season and bins it after a deflected goal and a horrendous error from Sweeney that you can’t legislate for. Bowyer’s shat it imo and gone defensive. 
 

Agreed about the keeper’s but they needed improved on and 100% and new keeper that starts week in week out. 
 

Grayson is a nothing player imo and behind Byrne, Gowser, Anderson, Mulligan and Robertson imo. I just don’t rate him at all. Very good debut but pish since. Being completely anonymous isn’t anywhere near acceptable. Byrne at least took the ball from the centre backs and started to build the play from there. A good coach should be coaching Byrne to be more forward thinking as soon as he receives the ball rather than replacing him. What do you think of the line up and formation I suggested?

I can because not every signing is going to work out. On paper, Williamson made sense. He's excelled at this level before and is just a young lad. Whether we like it or not, performances in the top flight for a well oiled team like Livi who have more often or not been in the top 6 the past few seasons isn't really comparable to how he'd do here. Don't disagree with Bowyer shitting it on the first day of the season though.

I feel like I'm always defending Legzdins but I just think he's a decent enough keeper. I think if we were to compare individual goalkeepers, I'd say Legzdins is probably in the top 2-3 keepers in this league if he's not the best. Would need to check who everyone has though but I don't think I'd be swapping him with too many.

I have to say, I think Byrne is the exact same and goes anonymous for huge chunks of the season. I like him because I've seen how good he can be but often he offers absolutely nothing and I think (not necessarily by you) but he's getting rated higher every single game he misses. 

I also have to say that I think Mulligan has largely been awful this season and certainly no better than Grayson. We know there's a player there but he's not shown it. Anderson and Robertson deserve another go in the side, I agree but it'd be at the expense of McGhee opposed to Grayson for me at the moment.

As far as formations and line ups go, yours does look good but I have to come back to the fact that it is basic individual mistakes that have cost us time and time again over the past 3 seasons.

If Rudden scores that one on one last night instead of running straight into the keeper and Sweeney/Cammy don't shit the bed and clear the ball off the opposition and it goes straight in, then it's a different game and as dire as it was, the formation would have been seen to have worked. As fucking always seems to be the case, the team absolutely shite the bed as soon as the opposition score and there's never any signs of recovery. Before QP scored the first, I felt we were on top.

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50 minutes ago, Fifespud said:


Those stats are a complete joke. They completely scream ‘I’m pish’.
This league is particularly shite this season, with a half decent manager we win this at a canter. It’s obvious, no discussion required.

You've been choking to have the pitchforks out since the day he arrived.

Wednesday night you were quoted as saying you're not calling for his head and one game later you're baying for blood. Fs.

 

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You've been choking to have the pitchforks out since the day he arrived.
Wednesday night you were quoted as saying you're not calling for his head and one game later you're baying for blood. Fs.
 

I just put ‘Bowyer out’ because I knew you’d bite!!

Your loyalty has to be admired Ludo, exemplary, but this guy ain’t moving my gauge. How long will you give him?

A decent manager has us out of sight in this shit show of a league. I’d far rather we took a punt on a Kevin Thompson type, who might be good, than a total non entity, whose record is pish and who turns out to be, well, pish.
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4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Partick Thistle getting pumped as it stands. 2-0 down before HT.

2 more Raith goals and we go to 7th. With Ayr drawing with Arbroath, we're 3 points off the top.

What a league.

Partick look an utter mess right now, next week could be fascinating.

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5 minutes ago, Fifespud said:


I just put ‘Bowyer out’ because I knew you’d bite!!

Your loyalty has to be admired Ludo, exemplary, but this guy ain’t moving my gauge. How long will you give him?

A decent manager has us out of sight in this shit show of a league. I’d far rather we took a punt on a Kevin Thompson type, who might be good, than a total non entity, whose record is pish and who turns out to be, well, pish.

I'll give him the season provided he gets rid of the shite. Longer if not.

As previously mentioned, Bowyer's record is far from shite. It's not amazing but it's certainly not another James McPake-esque punt like Kevin Thomson would be which is exactly why we are in this mess.

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6 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

2 more Raith goals and we go to 7th. With Ayr drawing with Arbroath, we're 3 points off the top.

What a league.

Partick look an utter mess right now, next week could be fascinating.

Without Kevin Holt they just seem to have crumbled.

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I'll give him the season provided he gets rid of the shite. Longer if not.
As previously mentioned, Bowyer's record is far from shite. It's not amazing but it's certainly not another James McPake-esque punt like Kevin Thomson would be which is exactly why we are in this mess.

Kevin Thomson with a 61% win record?
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Partick are a very poor side.  Most of us here tried to explain that to their fans after the first game of the season but they just couldn’t see it.  I thought at the time we would improve as Bowyer got used to the league and his players.  Trouble is I don’t think we’ve improved at all.  If anything the confidence seems to have gone and the defence looks more shaky than ever.

Edited by Shadow Play
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At the start of the season there were various comments here assessing why we would win the league on the basis that the "best" opponents were at best average and offered no real danger, down to teams that were pish.  Turns out we are not really different from any other team in the same league.

I dont expect some God-saving defender or striker in January for the simple reason we invariably miss out on most useful transfer chances. Maybe a journey man that has an apparently decent history. Probably has a history of injuries.

Been like that for a long time. 

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So, over a third of the way through the season and we are joint 6th top / joint 4th bottom.

Is there anyone on here seriously thinks Bowyer even remotely deserves pass marks so far?  Yes they are mostly not his players but even so.  Shocking when you consider our playing budget  is probably the best in the league. 

I really don’t think Bowyer understood what this league is all about when he joined and unfortunately it doesn’t look like he’s a quick learner.  At least he’s got something in common with Nelms!

 

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17 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

So, over a third of the way through the season and we are joint 6th top / joint 4th bottom.

Is there anyone on here seriously thinks Bowyer even remotely deserves pass marks so far?  Yes they are mostly not his players but even so.  Shocking when you consider our playing budget  is probably the best in the league. 

I really don’t think Bowyer understood what this league is all about when he joined and unfortunately it doesn’t look like he’s a quick learner.  At least he’s got something in common with Nelms!

 

If he can't get us up this season, then he needs to f**k off at the end of it, and reconsider his career options. 

That's it in a nutshell, no more excuses and bullshite.

Thank you.

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3 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

I can because not every signing is going to work out. On paper, Williamson made sense. He's excelled at this level before and is just a young lad. Whether we like it or not, performances in the top flight for a well oiled team like Livi who have more often or not been in the top 6 the past few seasons isn't really comparable to how he'd do here. Don't disagree with Bowyer shitting it on the first day of the season though.

I feel like I'm always defending Legzdins but I just think he's a decent enough keeper. I think if we were to compare individual goalkeepers, I'd say Legzdins is probably in the top 2-3 keepers in this league if he's not the best. Would need to check who everyone has though but I don't think I'd be swapping him with too many.

I have to say, I think Byrne is the exact same and goes anonymous for huge chunks of the season. I like him because I've seen how good he can be but often he offers absolutely nothing and I think (not necessarily by you) but he's getting rated higher every single game he misses. 

I also have to say that I think Mulligan has largely been awful this season and certainly no better than Grayson. We know there's a player there but he's not shown it. Anderson and Robertson deserve another go in the side, I agree but it'd be at the expense of McGhee opposed to Grayson for me at the moment.

As far as formations and line ups go, yours does look good but I have to come back to the fact that it is basic individual mistakes that have cost us time and time again over the past 3 seasons.

If Rudden scores that one on one last night instead of running straight into the keeper and Sweeney/Cammy don't shit the bed and clear the ball off the opposition and it goes straight in, then it's a different game and as dire as it was, the formation would have been seen to have worked. As fucking always seems to be the case, the team absolutely shite the bed as soon as the opposition score and there's never any signs of recovery. Before QP scored the first, I felt we were on top.

Williamson never made sense to me because we are more than covered in that position, pointless signing imo. 
 

From the minute Bowyer subbied Robinson up at Cove he has had an absolute shocker. The starting 11’s have been baffling. Fairdo’s we beat Ayr but it wasn’t impressive. Last week’s starting 11 was embarrassing. 

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Looking at this from the outside it seems reasonable enough to point to both how early in the season it is and how tight the league is as a justification for giving Bowyer time, when league position doesn't really matter this early and a couple of wins can be the difference between 7th and 1st, but using the squad he's inherited as an excuse for poor results just doesn't stand up at all.

Much of the supposed shite McPake has left him would get a game for almost every side in the division. There's also comfortably more depth in that squad than everyone other than Partick.

Much weaker squads on paper are higher in the league: no one is going to choose to have the Morton squad over the Dundee squad. We have a comfortably superior goalkeeper and full backs but that's about it, Crawford starts for Dundee on current form as well but considering he was on trial at Dundee and Bowyer decided not to sign him before he came to Morton, that hardly works in his defence. A player who isn't guaranteed a start and you're all calling pish every week like Rudden would be an absolutely massive improvement on Raith's centre forwards, yet you're level on points with them.

If Bowyer can't possibly get better results than those sides because of the squad he inherited then that would simply mean he's not as capable a manager as Bullen, Imrie, Murray etc.

Edited by Dunning1874
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15 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Looking at this from the outside it seems reasonable enough to point to both how early in the season it is and how tight the league is as a justification for giving Bowyer time, when league position doesn't really matter this early and a couple of wins can be the difference between 7th and 1st, but using the squad he's inherited as an excuse for poor results just doesn't stand up at all.

Much of the supposed shite McPake has left him would get a game for almost every side in the division. There's also comfortably more depth in that squad than everyone other than Partick.

Much weaker squads on paper are higher in the league: no one is going to choose to have the Morton squad over the Dundee squad. We have a comfortably superior goalkeeper and full backs but that's about it, Crawford starts for Dundee on current form as well but considering he was on trial at Dundee and Bowyer decided not to sign him before he came to Morton, that hardly works in his defence. A player who isn't a guaranteed a start and you're all calling pish every week like Rudden would be an absolutely massive improvement on Raith's centre forwards, yet you're level on points with them.

If Bowyer can't possibly get better results than those sides because of the squad he inherited then that would simply mean he's not as capable a manager as Bullen, Imrie, Murray etc.

Hard to disagree with that. Don’t think there’s a Dundee fan who doesn’t think Bowyer should be very close to winning the league with the squad he inherited bar a few we don’t think are good enough on the evidence so far. 
 

Bowyer has fucked this up so far with his team selection. 

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As always, healthy vibrant views and discussion mostly directed at what appears to be, yet another underperforming manager. Or is he?

Should we be so surprised at results so far, given his previous managerial career record as so eloquently highlighted in the last 24 hours by fellow posters on here.

Mr Bowyer is in fairness a charming fellow, who at the age of 51 accepted a managerial position based approximately a NINE HOUR round trip away from home, this only a few short weeks after being dismissed from his previous post whilst knowing nowt it would appear regarding Scottish football. End of career desperation does not even come into it, lol. Or indeed the club's recruitment desperation for that matter! 

Employed by Mr Nelms' and Mr Strachan only a short time after they had been rejected by their extremely very public shortlist of two, double lol.

Questions now being raised I see towards the club owners regarding the proposed new stadium pipedream.

Shambles of a club, with a clear unprofessional stench from the outside looking in.

Merely a Dark Blue honest opinion.

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