All things Dundee FC

[RossBFaeDundee]

Ashcroft, Legzdins and Sheridan all finally back in proper training sessions, and Bowyer wants to set up a bounce game next week to help get their fitness levels up.

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[Shadow Play]

23 hours ago, Girth said:

How’s the boy French looking btw? 

He looks steady enough to me and seems to win his fair share of challenges.  Fairly composed on the ball, although his passing wasn’t all that great against Blackburn (IIRC).  I think he was partly to blame for the Forfar goal as he was caught out of position but by that time the game was well and truly won.  

[locheedee]

A couple of possible new signings on the horizon but no one going out, either on loan or being told to gtf.

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[Pens_Dark]

How confident are we now then? We've been very strong in pre-season and in league cup games but the real test begins Saturday. 

Feels like a massive change in mood in the club and the fans in the space of a couple months and Bowyer hasn't done much to change that except come across as an actual manager, who'd have thought it? 

[Boo Khaki]

Pretty much the main difference for me. 

The squad itself isn't really any different to the past couple of seasons, but the feel is different because the manager gives the impression of basic competence instead of constantly looking like he's just fumbling around in the dark with no real method or understanding of what he's trying to achieve.

Can't remember if it was in this thread or another, but a few months ago I was  making the point that when fans of other clubs laugh at Dundee for being perennial under-achievers, a yoyo-club etc, they totally overlook the fact that when we have had a competent manager we've pretty much achieved what any realistic fan would expect. The problem is we have a habit of appointing clueless managers and sticking by them for too long. I was one of those who wanted McPake sacked after we won the playoffs last May, because for me he'd proven his incompetence by taking half the season to get the team looking organised in both his years in charge, and finished even further behind Hearts than he should have with the players at his disposal. I saw no reason at all to think he'd be capable of keeping us up because the only way that would happen is if the club somehow gave him a squad that was easily capable of mid-table and he underachieved with it. We made two signings, so it really didn't come as any surprise that we struggled all season long and were eventually relegated. That's exactly what I expected from McPake under the circumstances, and I don't believe the eventual outcome would have been any different had we kept him in position the entire season long.

I don't have these concerns with Bowyer. It may turn out in time that he's no managerial genius either, his record certainly suggests that he's a bit of a journeyman, but being a competent journeyman is still a huge improvement over his predecessors. I think Bowyer will achieve the expected level of the squad and players that he's given, whereas with McPake and McCann I always felt that they were a hindrance themselves and over the longer term the team would invariably under-achieve in terms of league position, points totals, cup runs, and so on. I feel reasonably confident that we can expect to take the league title this coming season, and while we might not run away with it, I think that is an unreasonable expectation in the first place. Inverness, Partick or some other team might turn out to be a bit better than expected, and someone else might do an Arbroath, but provided we are challenging for top spot all the way I'd say that's job done. If McPake was still here I could easily see us being 10-12 points adrift of top spot by Christmas, and while I don't think our squad is anywhere near good enough to expect to just blow the league away, there's absolutely no excuse for it being 7th at Christmas or something. That would be entirely down to managerial incompetence.

[Girth]

11 hours ago, locheedee said:

A couple of possible new signings on the horizon but no one going out, either on loan or being told to gtf.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecourier.co.uk%2Ffp%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Fdundee-fc%2F3529393%2Fdundee-gary-bowyer-couple-brewing-signing-front-rules-out-departures%2F

Great stuff. Excited to see who he brings in. 

No one leaving...does that mean we'll get to see the 'Canadian Crippler' control the middle of the park in his slippers at some point?

 

[Boo Khaki]

I'd expect to see Cameron, Robertson, and Fisher go out on loan once the senior pros are back fit, but I think Bowyer's "nobody out" means that's not happening just yet, and that there are no plans to drop any of the senior players still under contract. I think Lawlor might get 'mutually consented' at some point though.

[locheedee]

27 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

I'd expect to see Cameron, Robertson, and Fisher go out on loan once the senior pros are back fit, but I think Bowyer's "nobody out" means that's not happening just yet, and that there are no plans to drop any of the senior players still under contract. I think Lawlor might get 'mutually consented' at some point though.

I hope so re Lawlor tbh but I guess he's keeping him for now until he sees Legzdins in action at least or just as a third keeper to cover injuries.

As for the kids, he's said a few times now his focus is on developing them and getting them in to the first team so I'm not sure they will go out on loan.

[Pens_Dark]

It seems like the goalkeeper position is Sharps to lose and to be honest, I'm totally fine with that. 

Legzdins was decent at this level, hopeless at Premiership level in my opinion and coming off the back of what seems a bad knee injury I wouldn't want to see him thrust back in.

Sharp any time I saw him looked a decent shot stopper and fairly commanding. Not the best distribution but an ability that can be trained in to him.

Lawlor can get so far in to the Tay.

[Lalo]

31 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

I'd expect to see Cameron, Robertson, and Fisher go out on loan once the senior pros are back fit, but I think Bowyer's "nobody out" means that's not happening just yet, and that there are no plans to drop any of the senior players still under contract. I think Lawlor might get 'mutually consented' at some point though.

I reckon Cameron stays. Bowyer has subbed him on in every game in the league cup I believe and he's got 2 goals, and based off Cameron's interview in the Courier last night it seems like he is hopeful of staying this season and making his mark on the first team. Personally, I think he has shown enough to warrant his place as a sub and I hope he stays. 

[Boo Khaki]

3 minutes ago, locheedee said:

As for the kids, he's said a few times now his focus is on developing them and getting them in to the first team so I'm not sure they will go out on loan.

Well intentioned I'm sure, but with the three I mentioned specifically I think they've already missed the boat with that. Players need to be getting a bit of time off the bench and the odd start at 16 & 17. At 19 & 20 they need to be starting and playing virtually every match or they're not going to progress. Josh Mulligan has been playing regularly and looks absolutely ready to be a fixture in the starting eleven, so I think between him and Max Anderson, Gowser, Williamson in on loan, Byrne, Chapman, the fact Fisher has 4 senior CB's for competition, and we have 3 senior wingers, 4 if you include Jak, I can't see how on earth those three will get anywhere near enough game minutes if they stay at Dens.

[Girth]

Would anyone take Adam Rooney at Dens?

I know he's out of contract, ex Salford...

[AlanPartridge]

6 minutes ago, Girth said:

Would anyone take Adam Rooney at Dens?

I know he's out of contract, ex Salford...

Yes.

[Boo Khaki]

The Rooney of 3-4 years ago, absolutely, in a heartbeat, but his record over the past few seasons suggests he's struggled a bit, and I'd be concerned that at 34 a player who always relied on physicality might just be a bit past it and too much of a statue. We've already got something similar in Sheridan, so I'd be wary. Would have no issue with offering him a trial and playing him in a bounce game to have a look if that was an option. 

[Girth]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

The Rooney of 3-4 years ago, absolutely, in a heartbeat, but his record over the past few seasons suggests he's struggled a bit, and I'd be concerned that at 34 a player who always relied on physicality might just be a bit past it and too much of a statue. We've already got something similar in Sheridan, so I'd be wary. Would have no issue with offering him a trial and playing him in a bounce game to have a look if that was an option. 

Good idea. Potentially a good idea off the bench. Also, is Sheridan ever coming back!?

[Boo Khaki]

2 minutes ago, Girth said:

Good idea. Potentially a good idea off the bench. Also, is Sheridan ever coming back!?

He's back in training, but GB said he's still a way off the full load and being available to play.

[Pens_Dark]

1 hour ago, Girth said:

Would anyone take Adam Rooney at Dens?

I know he's out of contract, ex Salford...

Definitely. He would be worth a fair few goals if he was to stay fit. He didn't play for Bowyer at Salford I think but he will know about him surely.

[The Derry]

No to Rooney.  A good player back in the day but we need to build for the future he is not someone we could rely on next season when we're aiming for European positions.  

[Girth]

24 minutes ago, The Derry said:

No to Rooney.  A good player back in the day but we need to build for the future he is not someone we could rely on next season when we're aiming for European positions.  

[Peadar BigDinnerO'Driscoll]

1 hour ago, The Derry said:

No to Rooney.  A good player back in the day but we need to build for the future he is not someone we could rely on next season when we're aiming for European positions.  

Would have to agree. If we want to finish ahead of the old firm next year we need to stick with proven strikers like Sheridan. Rooney more a top 6 at best shout.