All things Dundee FC

[RossBFaeDundee]

11 minutes ago, DieDee said:

Arbroath currently on 1.77 points per game, we finished last season, with an on form Charlie Adam, with 1.67 points per game. Don't think we should be underestimating anyone

I wasn't joking fwiw, I wouldn't underestimate any side. Unless we bring in the right manager and players in, we won't be much different to the mediocrity of the last couple seasons.

[rainbowrising]

Arbroath achieved way beyond expectation this season. It will take an even bigger effort to stay at that level or higher for next season. I dont see that happening.

If we were in the play offs I would take them right now (not if it was them around October of '21 though!). The last 30 minutes against Kilmarnock they were done. Energy levels gone, running on empty. They would be faced with back to back games like that.

[Girth]

Hopefully we can finish above 5th in the champ next season. 

Really depends on who comes and goes and who the new manager is. 

Thank you. 

[Boo Khaki]

I think if, and when we get punted it would be a great time to clear house and ditch the deadwood. The squad is a bit more weighty than it was for most of McPake's time, but that's not entirely a bad thing because it means we can realistically pare a few off and not be looking at yet again going into a season with glaring holes in specific positions. I think they need to get the finger out and 'thanks for your efforts' McGhee as soon as we are mathematically relegated, then I would hope they'll have the new permanent manager in place as soon as it's realistically possible. Either immediately as his current employer's last ball of the season is kicked, or at worst in place well before the end of May and the expiry of Scottish based players contracts. We need the new guy in place so that he can start shaping the squad and targeting replacements ASAP, so that we avoid the usual nonsense of nearing September with only one recognised LB, no wingers, no back-up Goalie, 3 senior CB's on the books etc. Get the squad sorted early and concentrate on the fitness and tactical side, hit the ground running in August, not this 'shite until February' stuff we've been watching for years. 

Yeah, I noticed too that both Killie and Arbroath have comprehensively beaten our Championship points total from last season, that's why we can not afford the late squad tinkering and slow starts we've been used to seeing. Get the manager in ASAP and get that to f**k. It's totally unprofessional.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[RossBFaeDundee]

3 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Yeah, I noticed too that both Killie and Arbroath have comprehensively beaten our Championship points total from last season, that's why we can not afford the late squad tinkering and slow starts we've been used to seeing. Get the manager in ASAP and get that to f**k. It's totally unprofessional.

Fwiw in the spirit of pedantry, they've had 9 more games to work with and we were heading into our best form of the season by the time the shortened season ended. McGhee will definitely get until his contract runs out, but the preparations should already underway for his successor.

The squad is definitely the trickiest thing to upheave with 15 players (not incl. youth development like Anderson, Mulligan, Robertson and the rest) returning and two players supposedly set to come under PCAs (Zak Rudden & Ricki Lamie). Charlie Adam has also met his extension clause, however I believe there is also a relegation clause in his contact. Here are the returning and incoming players:

• Adam Legzdins
• Cammy Kerr
• Jordan Marshall
• Ryan Sweeney
• Jordan McGhee
• Alex Jakubiak
• Shaun Byrne (Signed until 2024)
• Paul McGowan
• Jay Chapman
• Lee Ashcroft
• Luke McCowan
• Paul McMullan
• Ian Lawlor
• Cillian Sheridan
• Niall McGinn
• Zak Rudden (PCA)
• Ricki Lamie (PCA)

Spoiler

Goalkeepers:
Adam Legzdins
Ian Lawlor
Harrison Sharp

Defenders:
Cammy Kerr
Jordan Marshall
Ryan Sweeney
Jordan McGhee
Lee Ashcroft
Ricki Lamie

Midfielders:
Shaun Byrne
Paul McGowan
Jay Chapman
Josh Mulligan
Finlay Robertson
Max Anderson

Wingers:
Luke McCowan
Paul McMullan
Niall McGinn
Lyall Cameron

Forwards:
Alex Jakubiak
Zak Rudden
Cillian Sheridan

I'm sure at least a few like Charlie will have relegation clauses, I'd guess players like McGinn and maybe Sweeney. One would imagine we would have to buy a few out of their contracts if the new manager's going to get some space to make it their team. My worry is that the owners will be reluctant to spend too much with a team pretty much already bought and paid for, and would just be interested in a head coach rather than a manager to alter the squad too much.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

I would keep the same back 4 if we go down. Get in a competent experienced keeper, revamp the midfield and add a couple of strikers.

Simple.

Thank you.

[Boo Khaki]

20 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Fwiw in the spirit of pedantry, they've had 9 more games to work with and we were heading into our best form of the season by the time the shortened season ended. McGhee will definitely get until his contract runs out, but the preparations should already underway for his successor.

Yes, I was working on the basis of projecting our 45 points to a full season total of 60, which is still short of Killies 66-69 and Arbroath's 62-65

Take on board your point about form being better towards the end of that campaign, but I honestly believe that we really should have been much closer to Hearts that season, and if you project their points total over 36 games then they'd have been looking at 76 points, which I think is both attainable, and a much more realistic figure to be aiming for if we want to ensure promotion straight back. So in reality we were going to still finish miles off the pace even with our improved form had that been a 36 game season, and I think we should absolutely be aiming to emulate Hearts 20-21 season rather than Killie or Arbroath, hence why we can not afford to start the season slowly yet again.

If you set out with the ambition of winning all of your Home fixtures and drawing your Away, then oddly enough that equates to 76 points. Now it's not realistic to expect that exact sequence of results, but I think aiming for an average of 2PPG absolutely should be the target, because you'll pick up wins on the road which will offset the times you don't quite manage to grab all the points at Home. Killie have done well to come back up, and I'd be loathe to look at their record of slightly short of 2PPG as a bit of an underachievement, because they have actually had stiff competition all the way from an opponent. But that doesn't mean we should be setting out looking to emulate Killie, we should be aiming to win the league comfortably, and that means doing a Hearts.

Edit - yeah sorry, realise I'm thinking in terms of 38 game season and not the Championship 36, but still, we should be looking for 2ppg

Edited April 25, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[Ludo*1]

We really should be bulleting McGhee now and fully accepting and focusing on getting the right guy in to start sorting the squad out for next season. Already other clubs are making moves for the push in the Championship next season.

[johnnydun]

50 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

We really should be bulleting McGhee now and fully accepting and focusing on getting the right guy in to start sorting the squad out for next season. Already other clubs are making moves for the push in the Championship next season.

Now don't shoot the messenger, and let's face it, everyone loves a rumour, especially a good one....

I have heard that Nelms has been in regular contact with Jack Ross and the reason he was never going to replace McPake this season is because he didn't want to risk a relegation on his CV. He is looking to take over next season.

Allegedly mind!

[locheedee]

29 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Now don't shoot the messenger, and let's face it, everyone loves a rumour, especially a good one....

I have heard that Nelms has been in regular contact with Jack Ross and the reason he was never going to replace McPake this season is because he didn't want to risk a relegation on his CV. He is looking to take over next season.

Allegedly mind!

I hope you're right Johnny, I'm dreading him giving McGhee or some other fandango the gig.

I did wonder if Ross maybe had some sort of clause in his Hibs pay off that meant he hadn't taken any of the vacant jobs on offer yet myself. Yours is probably more likely though

[Ludo*1]

1 hour ago, johnnydun said:

Now don't shoot the messenger, and let's face it, everyone loves a rumour, especially a good one....

I have heard that Nelms has been in regular contact with Jack Ross and the reason he was never going to replace McPake this season is because he didn't want to risk a relegation on his CV. He is looking to take over next season.

Allegedly mind!

I hope you're right but all I'm left thinking is, 'What a shitebag'.

[RossBFaeDundee]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Yes, I was working on the basis of projecting our 45 points to a full season total of 60, which is still short of Killies 66-69 and Arbroath's 62-65

Take on board your point about form being better towards the end of that campaign, but I honestly believe that we really should have been much closer to Hearts that season, and if you project their points total over 36 games then they'd have been looking at 76 points, which I think is both attainable, and a much more realistic figure to be aiming for if we want to ensure promotion straight back. So in reality we were going to still finish miles off the pace even with our improved form had that been a 36 game season, and I think we should absolutely be aiming to emulate Hearts 20-21 season rather than Killie or Arbroath, hence why we can not afford to start the season slowly yet again.

If you set out with the ambition of winning all of your Home fixtures and drawing your Away, then oddly enough that equates to 76 points. Now it's not realistic to expect that exact sequence of results, but I think aiming for an average of 2PPG absolutely should be the target, because you'll pick up wins on the road which will offset the times you don't quite manage to grab all the points at Home. Killie have done well to come back up, and I'd be loathe to look at their record of slightly short of 2PPG as a bit of an underachievement, because they have actually had stiff competition all the way from an opponent. But that doesn't mean we should be setting out looking to emulate Killie, we should be aiming to win the league comfortably, and that means doing a Hearts.

Edit - yeah sorry, realise I'm thinking in terms of 38 game season and not the Championship 36, but still, we should be looking for 2ppg

Fair enough, I do agree that regardless of what we could've done in good form for another 9 games it would've still been a disappointing league season. There really needs to be a cut-throat mentality going into next season, everyone in the club needs to think that they need to make a statement because they definitely do. Regardless of the potential competitors, so long as nobody goes up in the play-off (which I don't see happening) we will be the definitive favourites to win the league for the first time since we last won the league.

[RossBFaeDundee]

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

I hope you're right but all I'm left thinking is, 'What a shitebag'.

What manager would take that job in February tbf? Poisoned chalice if ever there was one, only a man desperate to get games under his managerial belt for some random purpose, regardless of how bad the results may be (and who is besties with the Technical Director and has no self-awareness)...

3 hours ago, johnnydun said:

Now don't shoot the messenger, and let's face it, everyone loves a rumour, especially a good one....

I have heard that Nelms has been in regular contact with Jack Ross and the reason he was never going to replace McPake this season is because he didn't want to risk a relegation on his CV. He is looking to take over next season.

Allegedly mind!

Sounds a lot like the rumour from February where an agreement is in place and it was because he was still being paid off by Hibs that he couldn't take it until the summer, though I bet if it was true that he wouldn't take the job in such a hopeless situation. Again, desperately hope it is true but I'll believe it when I see it.

Edited April 25, 2022 by RossBFaeDundee

[hk blues]

15 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The big difference being that there won't
be a Killie/Hearts/United in the league.

My big worry is Cove throwing money at players ala Gretna.

There might be a Saints (take you pick which)  or an Aberdeen though.

[The Derry]

We need a proper clear out, I'd keep about 7 players from this current lot.  They are bottom of the worst Premiership I've ever seen.  

 

Kerr, Byrne, Rudden, McMullan, Mulligan, Anderson and McCowan.  McGinn and Sweeney would be maybes, but Sweeney is slow as death and scares the shite out of me.

 

Anyone who says Kerr has been shite this season is at it and I would be willing to fight anyone who says it.

[Derry Alli]

Kerr is shite. 

See you at the club shop, 6pm.

[Spikethedee]

Kerr's first half performance against the Fermers was like watching him when he first broke into our first team again - if he played like that every week he would be a real asset.

Agree with the list of "keeps" from TheDerry, also Robertson and Sharp, and possibly Legzdins if no better options are available.

[Peadar BigDinnerO'Driscoll]

58 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

Kerr is shite. 

See you at the club shop, 6pm.

Byrne is shite as well, dunno why some seem to rate him so highly.

[Netan Sansara]

Mad how incredibly wrong people can be about some things. 

[Netan Sansara]

Also, the thought of Jack Ross taking over is enough to get me through the rest of this season. Undoubtedly Dundee will come out and crush our hopes by making a dreadful appointment, but at least I can dream for now.