All things Dundee FC

[Boo Khaki]

Yup, I've always believed there are certain things that prerequisites for anyone to become a decent manager, and I've never seen any hint of a single one of them in James McPake. Possibly every bit a decent coach, but manager, nope. Can't for the life of me see it ever happening.

[Ludo*1]

5 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

 

I’m obviously seeing things totally different from both of you.  In his time with us I saw no signs that McPake can build a coherent squad, despite the resources he had at his disposal.  I also found myself questioning his line ups and tactics during a game more often than not.  I’m not even going to discuss his use of substitutions.

Remember , no club in the land appeared interested in making McPake their manager.  He only got the gig at Dens because Nelms appears to have no idea what qualities are required in a manager and presumably simply went for the closest and cheapest option.

 

 

You obviously are because he's already been a serious contender for a job down South earlier this season. He's navigated the Championship and got the club out of that league and had the club into two quarter finals, 11th in the league and in touching distance of safety when he left.

I don't think McPake is a good manager - far from it, but he's clearly favoured in the footballing world and a job in Scotland's League 2 isn't exactly hard to get for prospective managers.

You just have to look at who'll be in our dugout on Sunday to see that failure gets rewarded for decades so some achievements sprinkled into McPake's career will see him get another job or 2 if he wishes to stay in management.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Ludo*1

[RossBFaeDundee]

12 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

I’m obviously seeing things totally different from both of you.  In his time with us I saw no signs that McPake can build a coherent squad, despite the resources he had at his disposal.  I also found myself questioning his line ups and tactics during a game more often than not.  I’m not even going to discuss his use of substitutions.

Remember , no club in the land appeared interested in making McPake their manager.  He only got the gig at Dens because Nelms appears to have no idea what qualities are required in a manager and presumably simply went for the closest and cheapest option.

I never said I think he'll succeed or is even good enough for the job, but it's a good opportunity for him to try and get a job and prove he can do it. Why would it matter about what he was up to before the Dundee job? He's got 2.5 years' worth of experience on his resume at a pretty high level, and regardless of what we fans think there'll be some teams willing to take a punt on a young manager who achieved success and managed at the top level early in his career. It's been pretty apparent that people in the industry value his abilities more than we as fans do, so I really don't think it's too far of a reach to see a team like Edinburgh City giving him a shot.

Edited March 17, 2022 by RossBFaeDundee

[Robin.Hood]

35 minutes ago, DieDee said:

Ok, go on, lets see your list of players that have been consistently better. 

 

(from earlier I think you will choose McGhee who's been way off it this season, in a position that clearly doesn't suit him at PL Level. Stick him back in defence and I hope he'll regain his form/confidence of a couple of seasons back when he was our POY and clearly better than CK)

Consistently? Very good. Kerr hasn't even played Consistently.

If you asked me who I think has did okay, McMullan, McCowan, Anderson, maybe Sweeney. That's yer lot. Kerr and pretty much abody else I'd say have failed us this season and have been shite. ( I'm probably missing someone I think is alright) 

[Shadow Play]

9 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

You obviously are because he's already been a serious contender for a job down South earlier this season. He's navigated the Championship and got the club out of that league and had the club into two quarter finals, 11th in the league and in touching distance of safety when he left.

I don't think McPake is a good manager - far from it, but he's clearly favoured in the footballing world and a job in Scotland's League 2 isn't exactly hard to get for prospective managers.

You just have to look at who'll be in our dugout on Sunday to see that failure gets rewarded for decades so some achievements sprinkled into McPake's career will see him get another job or 2 if he wishes to stay in management.

A serious contender but after due diligence didn’t get the job I assume?  IMHO we got out of the Championship largely because of Charlie Adam’s contribution to the team and I don’t think Charlie came to Dens because of McPake either.

Does being 11th in the league and in touching distance of safety amount to anything close to success with the resources McPake had made available to him?

7 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

I never said I think he'll succeed or is even good enough for the job, but it's a good opportunity for him to try and get a job and prove he can do it. Why would it matter about what he was up to before the Dundee job? He's got 2.5 years' worth of experience on his resume, and regardless of what we fans think there'll be some teams willing to take a punt on a young manager who achieved promotion early in his career. It's been pretty apparent that people in the industry value his abilities more than we as fans do, so I really don't think it's too far of a reach to see a team like Edinburgh City giving him a shot.

As I’ve said above, I think Charlie had more to do with us getting promoted and that situation fell into McPake’s lap.

We will obviously have to wait and see what clubs come in for him.  Maybe I’m being unfair towards McPake but at no point in his tenure was I ever truly convinced he was the right man for the job.

All just my opinion of course and what do I know?  I’ve never been a chairperson of any football club.

[Dee Bliss]

5 hours ago, Vernon gilmore said:

Totally agree , Byrne is the most over rated player at dens for years , I honestly don’t see what he brings to the team apart from the very occasional crunch tackle , it would be good to see how many assists he has to his name since joining the Dees , I know he’s a holding midfielder but he should have a least a couple of assists to his name 

My biggest problem with Byrne is I don’t think he can play in a midfield 2 has to be a 3 or nothing which is a pish position to be in. 
 

We appear to have a decent enough budget but it just gets blown on shite tbh. Those contract extensions, holy f**k

[Ludo*1]

44 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

A serious contender but after due diligence didn’t get the job I assume?  IMHO we got out of the Championship largely because of Charlie Adam’s contribution to the team and I don’t think Charlie came to Dens because of McPake either.

Does being 11th in the league and in touching distance of safety amount to anything close to success with the resources McPake had made available to him?

 

Maybe so, but if he's linked to an English side, then the likelihood is, his stock isn't too bad in football regardless of what we fans think.

As I say, we have a perennial failure in the dugout that has had about 1 successful season in almost 30 year. Ability as a manager doesn't really conflate with ability to get another job as a manager. McPake is getting talked of decently by the pundits and all I tipped him for was a League 2 job...

[D TOTAL]

Is it possible Charlie was more detrimental to Mcpake’s squad more than is believed, I doubt he would be a mcpake signing

[RossBFaeDundee]

4 minutes ago, D TOTAL said:

Is it possible Charlie was more detrimental to Mcpake’s squad more than is believed, I doubt he would be a mcpake signing

I think Charlie was and is the best and worst about this team. When he's on form he martials us to success and helps improve the play of those around him, but when he's not or he's injured, the failings of the squad are there for all to see and I think our reliance on him has severely affected McPake's ability to build a functioning, and that's not even taking into account his own failings. I kind of hope Charlie's extension doesn't happen somehow even though it's theoretically already been triggered, as it would force the new manager to find a way to play that wasn't so rigidly needed to play Charlie, i.e. the requirement of a midfield 3. He can't stay fit anymore anyway, and I think he knows he's very near the end of his career with him recently posting about working on his coaching badges on Instagram.

[DieDee]

1 hour ago, Robin.Hood said:

If you asked me who I think has did okay, McMullan, McCowan, Anderson, maybe Sweeney. That's yer lot. Kerr and pretty much abody else I'd say have failed us this season and have been shite. ( I'm probably missing someone I think is alright) 

Missing Adam? Hasn't played as much as we'd hope but without him.....  Sorry, McCowan was good mid part of season but has been woeful recently, constantly just giving the ball away. Anderson has been better than that but is still a bit weak for this level, needs to strengthen up to make the impact required. I like both, and they are young with potential, but can't say they have been better than CK.  

[AmericanFan]

7 hours ago, capt_oats said:

March Madness?

Yessir

[DieDee]

8 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

I kind of hope Charlie's extension doesn't happen

Gut feeling is that he knows getting fit for next season will be beyond him and he'll announce retirement. McPake had more than long enough to put out a team that worked without him, unfortunately with the squad he assembled he couldn't get them to perform. 

[RossBFaeDundee]

6 minutes ago, AmericanFan said:

Yessir

Go Blue 

[Robin.Hood]

13 minutes ago, DieDee said:

Missing Adam? Hasn't played as much as we'd hope but without him.....  Sorry, McCowan was good mid part of season but has been woeful recently, constantly just giving the ball away. Anderson has been better than that but is still a bit weak for this level, needs to strengthen up to make the impact required. I like both, and they are young with potential, but can't say they have been better than CK.  

We will agree to disagree.

Again Adam hasn't been playing most of the season ( I could be wrong). Stat wise... we do good with Adam.

Anderson has contributed more this season than what Kerr has had. 

We did well with McCowan and McMullan on each wing... the defenders behind both players however with Marshall and Kerr are a liability. 

McCowan you go on about giving the ball away, I don't know if your serious if your comparing that too Kerr. 

I believe supporters watch a different Kerr to what I do. He was finished years ago at Dundee. But he will get his testimonial and another season in the championship. 

Also mention McCowan being young but he is 24... I believe he should be playing more. Play players in their positions would be a start. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Robin.Hood

[AmericanFan]

21 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Go Blue 

Big win. Been playing well the last month.

[Shadow Play]

33 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

I think Charlie was and is the best and worst about this team. When he's on form he martials us to success and helps improve the play of those around him, but when he's not or he's injured, the failings of the squad are there for all to see and I think our reliance on him has severely affected McPake's ability to build a functioning, and that's not even taking into account his own failings. I kind of hope Charlie's extension doesn't happen somehow even though it's theoretically already been triggered, as it would force the new manager to find a way to play that wasn't so rigidly needed to play Charlie, i.e. the requirement of a midfield 3. He can't stay fit anymore anyway, and I think he knows he's very near the end of his career with him recently posting about working on his coaching badges on Instagram.

I know exactly what you mean.  I though the same about Kevin Thomson.  Great technical player but it always felt like he never truly got a run in the team due to his injuries.  

In fact, I think signings like Thomson have been part of Dundee’s problem.  Too much money spent on bigger name players nearing the end of their career when they become available with little thought as to whether the position they play in is a priority with regards to new additions.  The result is often a less than balanced squad.

[Fifespud]

I feel sorry for fans of any team that ends up managed by McPake. Totally clueless.
McCowan has had a few decent games, maybe 6, but has otherwise been disappointing. Sweeney has a lot of attributes but also has more of the bombscare about him than is good for him. Often gets caught completely out of position. This season Anderson and McMullen are the only standouts for me, Cammy would be near the top of the next group, above the utter dross.
I hear guys shouting abuse at Cammy around me in the stadium who are clearly absolutely clueless about the game. His crossing leaves a bit to be desired but his primary job is defending and he’s decent at it. Good in the tackle and a good engine. He’s done well to stand up to the abuse he gets from the Derry boo boys. We lose far more goals down the left side where McCowan doesn’t track back, where Marshall goes daydreaming and out of position and can’t defend/tackle very well in the first place and where Sweeney also goes walk about. It’s so glaringly obvious the LHS is where the biggest issues are.

[Robin.Hood]

8 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

I feel sorry for fans of any team that ends up managed by McPake. Totally clueless.
McCowan has had a few decent games, maybe 6, but has otherwise been disappointing. Sweeney has a lot of attributes but also has more of the bombscare about him than is good for him. Often gets caught completely out of position. This season Anderson and McMullen are the only standouts for me, Cammy would be near the top of the next group, above the utter dross.
I hear guys shouting abuse at Cammy around me in the stadium who are clearly absolutely clueless about the game. His crossing leaves a bit to be desired but his primary job is defending and he’s decent at it. Good in the tackle and a good engine. He’s done well to stand up to the abuse he gets from the Derry boo boys. We lose far more goals down the left side where McCowan doesn’t track back, where Marshall goes daydreaming and out of position and can’t defend/tackle very well in the first place and where Sweeney also goes walk about. It’s so glaringly obvious the LHS is where the biggest issues are.

McCowan we know don't track back but we was adding goals... something our midfield wasn't doing. Just so happens Marshall is awful .

Sweeney is our best defender but the whole lot should get binned for this league. Championship should be okay.

Kerr you mentioned does well defending.... he dives in, he gets found out in no man's land. The engine I can agree with. 

Kerr one of our own n all that shite. Just nonsense. He is part of how bad we have been of recent times Another season of it.

Crazy thing for me is I'm not overly fussed. It's done so just need to put up with same squad regardless of what league we are in next season.  However 3 or 4 boys in this squad are this level. The rest are championship or lower level quality. 

McMullan player of season if had to pick anyone. 

[Dee Bliss]

1 hour ago, Robin.Hood said:

McCowan we know don't track back but we was adding goals... something our midfield wasn't doing. Just so happens Marshall is awful .

Sweeney is our best defender but the whole lot should get binned for this league. Championship should be okay.

Kerr you mentioned does well defending.... he dives in, he gets found out in no man's land. The engine I can agree with. 

Kerr one of our own n all that shite. Just nonsense. He is part of how bad we have been of recent times Another season of it.

Crazy thing for me is I'm not overly fussed. It's done so just need to put up with same squad regardless of what league we are in next season.  However 3 or 4 boys in this squad are this level. The rest are championship or lower level quality. 

McMullan player of season if had to pick anyone. 

Do you not think Kerr defends well 1 on 1? I’d keep him next season as back up to both fullbacks. 
 

Sweeney head and shoulders above everyone for player of the year imo. Anderson 2nd best. 

[Robin.Hood]

27 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Do you not think Kerr defends well 1 on 1? I’d keep him next season as back up to both fullbacks. 
 

Sweeney head and shoulders above everyone for player of the year imo. Anderson 2nd best. 

I just feel for Kerr it's time to move on. 1 on 1 depends on who he is against. I reckon out of 12 teams in the league he is the weakest right back in the league quite easily.

Sweeney is a funny one. People see a bombscare and people see a good player. I'm still in middle regarding him. I like Anderson also however already had been telt he ain't built for this league ( I think thats bollox)