All things Dundee FC

[This Charming Man]

Number 4 today for Kelty Hearts, Jordon Forster.

Number 4 today for St Johnstone, Jamie McCart.

Hmmm, just thinking aloud.

Hiya Jack Ross, hiya pal and best regards.

[LM_0803]

Today was poor by all accounts and it changes nothing. 

Anything other than a win on Wednesday is unacceptable. Surely he'll be out the door if it's another defeat? Surely? 

 

[Liam89]

I’d take a defeat if it meant he was replaced. However, I’m worried his PCA signings (one confirmed and rumoured) suggest he’s here regardless of what happens this season.

[Louis Litt]

16 minutes ago, LM_0803 said:

Anything other than a win on Wednesday is unacceptable. Surely he'll be out the door if it's another defeat? Surely? 

 

If don't see them even considering it unless we're properly cut adrift tbh. It's frustrating as f**k. 

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Louis Litt said:

If don't see them even considering it unless we're properly cut adrift tbh. It's frustrating as f**k. 

[Boo Khaki]

5 hours ago, LM_0803 said:

Today was poor by all accounts and it changes nothing. 

Anything other than a win on Wednesday is unacceptable. Surely he'll be out the door if it's another defeat? Surely? 

 

It would be classic Dundee to get promoted with a Championship calibre squad, do virtually nothing in the summer to improve it, watch it circle the drain for months, then fire a totally hopeless manager with only hours left of the January window. Only way to top that would be to fire him just after it closes and leave the new guy no option but to get relegated with McPake's bunch of stiffs. I don't know why anyone would take the job under these circumstances, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's not a factor that's at the back of the minds of prospective new signings, given that there is apparently nobody of any stature with the slightest interest in making a sideways or slightly downwards move to come play at Dens.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[D TOTAL]

On the bright side chapman should be here by now and training with the boys today or tomorrow, that’s at least something.

[johnnydun]

6 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

It would be classic Dundee to get promoted with a Championship calibre squad, do virtually nothing in the summer to improve it, watch it circle the drain for months, then fire a totally hopeless manager with only hours left of the January window. Only way to top that would be to fire him just after it closes and leave the new guy no option but to get relegated with McPake's bunch of stiffs. I don't know why anyone would take the job under these circumstances, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's not a factor that's at the back of the minds of prospective new signings, given that there is apparently nobody of any stature with the slightest interest in making a sideways or slightly downwards move to come play at Dens.

That's the thing, managers can dump players at a drop of a hat, bring in replacements and even overhaul whole squads. Why does it take so long to replace managers?

[Fifespud]

Just watched the ‘highlights’. An extremely soft penalty, which Griffiths nearly missed. Anyway we are still in, unlike the agriculturalists.

[D TOTAL]

5 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

Just watched the ‘highlights’. An extremely soft penalty, which Griffiths nearly missed. Anyway we are still in, unlike the agriculturalists.

I’m a wee bit disappointed in cammy for that tbh, not an area of his game that I thought he had in him

if that was against us I’d be absolutely seething as it completely changed the game…well not really as it was still shite and anyones, but with the extra man Dumbarton may have really hurt us

pen was Shanny boggles, a wins a win onto Peterhead.

[derrybiy]

I don't miss this.

 

[Shadow Play]

57 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

That's the thing, managers can dump players at a drop of a hat, bring in replacements and even overhaul whole squads. Why does it take so long to replace managers?

Agree in principle JD but Nelms has boxed himself into a horrible position.

McCann’s full time appointment was a disaster.

McIntyre’s appointment was not only a disaster but perfectly illustrated the lack of knowledge Nelms has about the club and Scottish football.

McPake’s appointment was simply a toss of the coin as to whether it would work or not given Mcpake had never before managed an adult team at any level.

I also don’t think there is a budget to pay off McPake and fund an overhaul of the squad which I’m sure a new manager of any stature would demand.

In short Nelms is doing what he always does.  Simply hoping  and praying things will turn around while ignoring the evidence in front of him.

[Boo Khaki]

Certainly feels like it's just been one mistake after another and a constant spiral of decline since Hartley run out of ideas. You'd think by happy coincidence that something would go right eventually, and getting promoted through the playoffs was a welcome break in the narrative, but the club have just appointed one absolute numpty after another and don't seem to have the intuition to recognise that things aren't going to magically correct themselves by just standing by and watching.

I could understand taking a punt on McCann. He's articulate and at least gives the passing impression of knowing what he's talking about, but the timing of his firing, the appointment of McIntyre, and especially the appointment of McPake all scream of an upper management at the club who really have no idea what they are doing. The fact they went into this season not only with a questionable manager, but without significantly strengthening a squad that, if we're honest, struggled a bit in the Championship just underlines the impression that they don't really possess any ability to accurately assess where the club is and what is needed to fulfil their stated ambitions.

I think it's become apparent this window that this is quite possibly an impression that is shared in wider footballing circles, given that nobody appears to want to actively make themselves a part of what is currently happening at Dens. I think I could accept things if they punted McPake right now, they brought in a few new bodies in the areas we are obviously deficient in, and they still went down, but standing by without doing a thing about it and waiting for the inevitable is unforgivable. I know that sounds similar to the scenario with McCann/McIntyre that I've just slated them for, but that was a subtly different scenario in that we weren't a newly promoted club at that time. McCann was incapable of halting a slide that really started in the last couple of seasons of Hartley's time, whereas this time around it's a total failure to build on a little bit of traction gained in the latter half of last season.

I said in spring last year that I thought firing McPake would be entirely justified even if he somehow got us promoted, because I felt he was totally underperforming across an extended period and that there wasn't a hope in hell of him keeping us in the Premiership, and I think I'm still entirely justified in having said that.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[Robin.Hood]

1 hour ago, Boo Khaki said:

 

I said in spring last year that I thought firing McPake would be entirely justified even if he somehow got us promoted, because I felt he was totally underperforming across an extended period and that there wasn't a hope in hell of him keeping us in the Premiership, and I think I'm still entirely justified in having said that.

Now I thought I was in the minority thinking this. Even getting us promoted I wanted him out. However majority came back with ... how can you sack someone who has did there job in getting us promoted etc. This argument was fairly full on. 

Now we have every c**t n there dog wanting McPake out and we aren't even bottom and could easy move up the league if scores were to go our way ( yes I hear the laughing ). I genuinely don't understand some people thinking however granted good to have different opinions.

I didnt watch the game yesterday ( thank f**k) . Where did Mulligan play and how he do ? The keeper how did he do ? 

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, Robin.Hood said:

 

I didnt watch the game yesterday ( thank f**k) . Where did Mulligan play and how he do ? The keeper how did he do ? 

Mulligan was completely anonymous at CM. Can't remember him touching the ball. Game passed him by completely.

Keeper was alright. Didn't have a save to make. Hesitated coming for a ball that should have been his that the Dumbarton player should have ultimately done better with. That's been super critical though. There was nothing really to judge him on. Kicking was alright bar one daisy cutter of a slice that still went to our player.

[Robin.Hood]

6 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Mulligan was completely anonymous at CM. Can't remember him touching the ball. Game passed him by completely.

Keeper was alright. Didn't have a save to make. Hesitated coming for a ball that should have been his that the Dumbarton player should have ultimately done better with. That's been super critical though. There was nothing really to judge him on. Kicking was alright bar one daisy cutter of a slice that still went to our player.

Oh so we are going to play him in middle of midfield. There we go then. See how this goes.

Keeper wonder if just be used for cup games

[RossBFaeDundee]

I would like to see Mulligan being used at RB, considering that's where he seemed to impress the most.

[D TOTAL]

3 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

I would like to see Mulligan being used at RB, considering that's where he seemed to impress the most.

I doubt even the Peterhead fans ken his best position with the boy being that versatile 

[Boo Khaki]

17 minutes ago, Robin.Hood said:

Now I thought I was in the minority thinking this. Even getting us promoted I wanted him out. However majority came back with ... how can you sack someone who has did there job in getting us promoted etc. This argument was fairly full on. 

It's strange how many football fans don't seem to be able to grasp that you can get promoted, win cups etc (Davidson) and still be a clueless manager who is totally underperforming. 

It's like somebody at work who only just scrapes their minimum target while everyone else in the same department is totally blowing the targets away feeling aggrieved at being the first out of the door.

Being realistic about it, there was absolutely no excuse for any manager NOT getting Dundee promoted from the Championship in two seasons given their resources. It was a bare minimum expectation. The fact we finished so far adrift of Hearts and made no title challenge whatsoever is what McPake should really be judged on, not the fact we got into a bit of a run late on and came up against the worst Killie side in 25 years. HIs overall record is shockingly poor, it's silly to let a lucky promotion via the Playoffs cloud the fact that he's been piss-poor right from the day he was hired, has shown no growth whatsoever as a manager, and has taken until February/March in both his full seasons in charge to figure out how to get his side playing. Yet again, that's something else I gave for a reason for punting him at the close of last season. If this year followed suit and it took him until near the league split to get us playing consistently then we'd already be functionally relegated by that point in the season. And here we are...

[Ludo*1]

McPake on STV news saying that he's wanted Rudden in for a few year.

Goes on to say that when he did his presentation interview to the board, his planned striking trio was Shankland, Nisbet & Rudden and he's finally got one of the three.