All things Dundee FC

[Dundee-FC92]

1 hour ago, RossDee01 said:

You’ve opened a can of worms here. Signed a lot of players, some very good, some duds. Had some very good ideas on how to play but didn’t get given enough time to implement them properly. Had he been given  more time he’d certainly have kept us up and wouldn’t have signed clowns like Andrew Davies and Martin fucking Woods.

Do you remember the performances in the Motherwell, St Johnstone, Hibs and Ayr games before his departure?

We had hit rock bottom and we were absolutely dreadful. He already had a full season behind him so what makes you think he would've suddenly changed the fortunes?

McIntyre actually came in and improved things dramatically until February. It then fell apart in outstandingly bad fashion,  particularly after the St Mirren away collapse.

We were going down with McCann and needed change. The board believed of all candidates Jim McIntyre was the right man - that's the decisive factor and not McCann being sacked

All about opinions, however it has to be remembered the depths of performance we had hit that season. We were falling like a stone and needed change; McCanns time was up.

Spence was just as bad as Woods also.

Thank you.

[Dundee-FC92]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

TBF McKay will be the reliable one there if they're still using Wallace Duffy.

Surely you can be used by the NHS instead of sleeping pills?

A very useful tool. Very tired now.

Than k y

[harry94]

You've appointed the angriest man in Scottish football. Takes zero shit. Will have you playing from the back and there will be no variance from this model. Philosophy is more important than results.

In fairness, as an interim he didn't change much and season one, he did eventually more direct when we were in the shit.

I think it was more of a case of him signing himself into a situation where he simply had no control over playing style anymore. O'Hara, Holt and even Spanish Jon could handle that sort of direct game and moved on but none of his new batch really looked like they could. O'Hara in particular bailed him out big time the previous season after not being fancied and then needing to be played as a combative at wing back.

[RiG]

10 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

TBF McKay will be the reliable one there if they're still using Wallace Duffy.

It's not the thread for this but Duffy has looked perfectly fine at the back for us and scored a cracker about 1 hour before you posted this.

Brad Mckay is still utter shite.

[johnnydun]

Announce Lennon.

[bp33]

You’ve opened a can of worms here. Signed a lot of players, some very good, some duds. Had some very good ideas on how to play but didn’t get given enough time to implement them properly. Had he been given  more time he’d certainly have kept us up and wouldn’t have signed clowns like Andrew Davies and Martin fucking Woods.

Tried to play like Barcelona, with Dundee FC players. Can’t believe he failed.

[Derry Alli]

1 minute ago, bp33 said:

Tried to play like Barcelona, with Dundee FC players. Can’t believe he failed.

 

He never "tried to play like Barcelona" at all. He asked players - who train 5 days a week with a football, play 90minufes every week with a football and were paid handsomely as professional footballers - to be calm, composed, control a football and pass to a man in the same coloured uniform as themselves. The fact that it failed and that "it never works in Scotland" isn't the fault of the man trying to change bad habits. 

Until more people realise this we will forever be an utter backwater in footballing terms. 

[hk blues]

12 hours ago, RossDee01 said:

Had he been given  more time he’d certainly have kept us up ...

Hmm...

[Dundee-FC92]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

He never "tried to play like Barcelona" at all. He asked players - who train 5 days a week with a football, play 90minufes every week with a football and were paid handsomely as professional footballers - to be calm, composed, control a football and pass to a man in the same coloured uniform as themselves. The fact that it failed and that "it never works in Scotland" isn't the fault of the man trying to change bad habits. 

Until more people realise this we will forever be an utter backwater in footballing terms. 

You're right. We should expect players to do that.  That's why I'm so against the likes of Kerr - he literally has no footballing ability.

Asking Cammy Kerr, O'Hara  Spence, Moussa etc to do this was lunacy. He had the odd great signing which could contribute to this style such as Hendry and Kamara but his overall tenure was cataclysmic. He's put us back years.

Thank you.

[Shadow Play]

1 hour ago, Mr. Alli said:

He never "tried to play like Barcelona" at all. He asked players - who train 5 days a week with a football, play 90minufes every week with a football and were paid handsomely as professional footballers - to be calm, composed, control a football and pass to a man in the same coloured uniform as themselves. The fact that it failed and that "it never works in Scotland" isn't the fault of the man trying to change bad habits. 

Until more people realise this we will forever be an utter backwater in footballing terms. 

It is possible to play good football in Scotland.  Rangers have played some exceptional football this season but they have some exceptional players.  Bar one or two, McCann never brought in exceptional players.  He brought in numerous players that could not do as he asked.  That is his fault. A good manager looks at what is available and sets out the team accordingly.
 
Anyone can ask people to do something above their ability or above what is possible under all the circumstances .  The skill is knowing exactly what your employee is capable of and building them to that level.  Don’t demand they do more than they are capable of as that will only lead to mistakes, resentment and ultimately a collapse in confidence.

[bp33]

He never "tried to play like Barcelona" at all. He asked players - who train 5 days a week with a football, play 90minufes every week with a football and were paid handsomely as professional footballers - to be calm, composed, control a football and pass to a man in the same coloured uniform as themselves. The fact that it failed and that "it never works in Scotland" isn't the fault of the man trying to change bad habits. 
Until more people realise this we will forever be an utter backwater in footballing terms. 

Passed it about the back, with no real result. Admitted he was about to change his philosophy, just before he was sacked, about 9 months to late. Don’t get me wrong, his idea was tried for the correct reasons, but it was an abject failure, and should have been abandoned long before he was sacked.

[bp33]

It is possible to play good football in Scotland.  Rangers have played some exceptional football this season but they have some exceptional players.  Bar one or two, McCann never brought in exceptional players.  He brought in numerous players that could not do as he asked.  That is his fault. A good manager looks at what is available and sets out the team accordingly.
 
Anyone can ask people to do something above their ability or above what is possible under all the circumstances .  The skill is knowing exactly what your employee is capable of and building them to that level.  Don’t demand they do more than they are capable of as that will only lead to mistakes, resentment and ultimately a collapse in confidence.

Correct. Sean Dyche Burnley manager said publicly, if you want to play like Barcelona, sign Barcelona quality players.

We’re now even seeing it with Finn, Moore, and others that when they get the ball, they look for a square pass, or go backwards. That’s due to McCann trying to get the whole club playing with this philosophy.

Rangers are a good football team, as are Celtic, but look at the budgets they have.

[EpicMike]

2 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

He never "tried to play like Barcelona" at all. He asked players - who train 5 days a week with a football, play 90minufes every week with a football and were paid handsomely as professional footballers - to be calm, composed, control a football and pass to a man in the same coloured uniform as themselves. The fact that it failed and that "it never works in Scotland" isn't the fault of the man trying to change bad habits. 

Until more people realise this we will forever be an utter backwater in footballing terms. 

It actually takes a lot of ability, composure and footballing intelligence to consistently do that in the modern game where teams are drilled to press and enforce errors. Look at Glen Kamara, he wasn't a midfield sentinel who broke up play and started dangerous counter attacks, he wasn't a creative dynamo who set up or scored 20 goals a season. He was a player who could receive the ball under pressure, spot a pass, and make the pass with a consistent degree of accuracy. That was enough to get him a big move to Rangers, probably an even bigger move to the Premier League in the future and be regarded as one of Dundee's best midfielders in the last 10 years. Players of that ability get big moves to move clubs.

It's unrealistic for a team of Dundee's standing to field an entire team capable of doing that.

[Dee Bliss]

15 hours ago, SteveAn said:

What was McCann like when he was in charge of you guys? 

Tbh I enjoyed his 1st season in charge and like the style of play he wants to play despite people around me at games near combusting because he likes to play the ball out from the back.  
 

His signing policy in his 2nd summer was bizarre, trying to cherry pick half a dozen or so players from the English National league and below when it should only be 1 or 2 at a time came back to bite him on the arse and our club big time. Don’t know if this was his policy or the club’s directors though right enough. The guys a winner and won’t take passenger. I would take him back in a heartbeat over the current incumbent and his predecessor

Hope he does well at your club but obviously not to the detriment of my own!

 

Edited to say don’t let him sign a goalkeeper

Edited February 24, 2021 by Yenitit

[Dee Bliss]

Regards McCann I’d only put him behind Hartley in terms of manager’s since Jocky got punted that’s how bad our appointments have been in the last 10 years  

Chisholm - pish

Bomber - fuckin lunatic 

Hartley - 1 bad season 

Mcintyre - ahahahahaha, oh ma sides. Absolutely brutal. 
 

McPake - decent signings, tactically inept and uninspiring. 

[Dee Bliss]

3 hours ago, bp33 said:

 

Tried to play like Barcelona, with Dundee FC players. Can’t believe he failed.

 

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Regards McCann I’d only put him behind Hartley in terms of manager’s since Jocky got punted that’s how bad our appointments have been in the last 10 years  

Chisholm - pish

Bomber - fuckin lunatic 

Hartley - 1 bad season 

Mcintyre - ahahahahaha, oh ma sides. Absolutely brutal. 
 

McPake - decent signings, tactically inept and uninspiring. 

Interesting idea. Here's my list of managers since I started watching Dundee. Note: Barry Smith would instantly go to the top of my list for that single season, but I'll treat it over the spell. And John McCormack was just appointed manager when I started going to Dens, but remember very little.

1. Jocky Scott.

2. Paul Hartley

3. Barry Smith

4. Jocky Scott II

5. Jim Duffy

6. Alex Rae

7. Ivano Bonetti (Love him enough to be in my top 3, but let's be real. He's lucky to get this high!)

8. John Brown

9. Neil McCann

10. Gordon Chisholm

11. James McPake

12. Alan Kernaghan

13. Jim McIntyre

Absolute madness.

Only Jocky, Hartley & Smith can be deemed as successful over their whole stints IMO and I'm sure that not everyone would be unanimous on that!

[Derry Alli]

39 minutes ago, EpicMike said:

It actually takes a lot of ability, composure and footballing intelligence to consistently do that in the modern game where teams are drilled to press and enforce errors. Look at Glen Kamara, he wasn't a midfield sentinel who broke up play and started dangerous counter attacks, he wasn't a creative dynamo who set up or scored 20 goals a season. He was a player who could receive the ball under pressure, spot a pass, and make the pass with a consistent degree of accuracy. That was enough to get him a big move to Rangers, probably an even bigger move to the Premier League in the future and be regarded as one of Dundee's best midfielders in the last 10 years. Players of that ability get big moves to move clubs.

It's unrealistic for a team of Dundee's standing to field an entire team capable of doing that.

To create composure, confidence in your own ability and in game intelligence you need to have it drummed into you from a young age and be allowed to make mistake and learn from them. Things which do not happen in Scotland - or Dundee - as we swung from one philosophy to a polar opposite in the "tried and tested" manager that was McIntyre. Signs absolute huddies and hoof the ball. Release anybody with any semblance of ability to hold onto the ball and get in boys to kick it upto Curran as quick as possible. 

It absolutely isn't unrealistic to expect a club with a wage bill the size of Dundee's to be able to select from a team of professionals who are able to do the bare basics of control, pass and move. Players will move on, it happens. Apparently Fin just "looks for an easy pass" rather than retains possession and works the field. It's a prime example. 

[RandomGuy.]

Nothing finer than da's exploding at teams having the temerity to pass the ball.

Absolute NAP yer man here was screeching "get the ball forward!" before the keepers pass had even reached the CB.

[K.T]

Neil McCann had his play it out from the back philosophy - fine. But that begins with a goalkeeper and the goalkeeper he signed to do that was Jack Hamilton. What little remained of that boys confidence evaporated day 1 of the season against St Mirren. Stick to the punditry, Neil.