Ludo*1 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said: Posted this on the new managerial thread but thought I'd bring it here too just to be annoying. Decided to have a look at how our managers have fared in the second tier in the past (post-1970), in order to see where McPake really stands in terms of win percentage, not including interim managers unless they become proper managers later on. Paul Hartley - 14 GP, 9 W, 2 D, 3 L - 64.29% Tommy Gemmell - 78 GP, 49 W,14 D, 15 L - 62.82% Gordon Wallace - 48 GP, 30 W, 8 D, 10 L - 62.50% Jocky Scott - 12 GP, 7 W, 2 D, 3 L - 58.33% Don Mackay - 39 GP, 22 W, 8 D, 9 L - 56.41% John Brown - 22 GP, 12 W, 4 D, 6 L - 54.55% David White - 39 GP, 21 W, 9 D, 9 L - 53.85% Barry Smith - 66 GP, 32 W, 20 D, 14 L - 48.49% Jim Duffy - 95 GP, 46 W, 28 D, 21 L - 48.42% Alex Rae - 82 GP, 39 W, 17 D, 26 L - 47.56% John McCormack - 40 GP, 19 W, 14 D, 7 L - 47.50% Iain Munro - 20 GP, 9 W, 7 D, 4 L - 45.00% Simon Stainrod - 13 GP, 5 W, 5 D, 3 L - 38.46% James McPake - 32 GP, 12 W, 10 D, 10 L - 37.50% Gordon Chisholm - 17 GP, 6 W, 5 D, 6 L - 35.29% Alan Kernaghan - 30 GP, 6 W, 14 D, 10 L - 20.00% Illustrious company there. Alternatively here's the losing percentages of each manager. Sure wouldn't want to be near the top of this list. Gordon Chisholm - 35.29% Alan Kernaghan - 33.33% Alex Rae - 31.71% James McPake - 31.25% John Brown - 27.27% Jocky Scott - 25.00% Simon Stainrod - 23.08% David White - 23.08% Don Mackay - 23.08% Jim Duffy - 22.11% Paul Hartley - 21.43% Barry Smith - 21.21% Gordon Wallace - 20.83% Iain Munro - 20.00% Tommy Gemmell - 19.23% John McCormack - 17.50% Stop stealing mah' things. Next you'll be posting up Next Manager threads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said: Stop stealing mah' things. Next you'll be posting up Next Manager threads. Had you already done this, or is looking up stats your thing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 03/11/2020 at 00:50, Ludo*1 said: I've not counted McPake's awarded 3-0 win vs Forfar in the stats, but it doesn't make a difference to anything. James McPake - GP: 39 W: 15 D : 11 L: 13 WR: 38.46% Jim McIntyre - GP: 31 W: 4 D : 7 L: 20 WR: 12.90% Neil McCann - GP: 65 W: 22 D : 8 L: 34 WR: 33.85% Paul Hartley - GP: 138 W: 46 D : 37 L: 55. WR: 33.13%. John Brown - GP: 39. W: 18. D : 8. L: 13. WR: 46.15% Barry Smith - GP: 102. W: 39 D :27 L: 36. WR: 38.24% Gordon Chisholm - GP: 21. W: 8 D : 5. L: 8 WR: 38.09% Jocky Scott - GP: 65. W: 31. D : 13. L: 21. WR: 47.69% Alex Rae - GP: 97. W: 42. D : 22. L: 33. WR: 43.29% Alan Kernaghan - GP: 37. W: 9 D : 16 L: 12 WR: 24.32% Jim Duffy - GP: 142. W: 44. D : 38. L: 60 WR: 30.99% Ivano Bonetti - GP: 90 W: 29 D : 21 L: 40 WR: 32.22% Jocky Scott - GP: 95 W: 35 D : 18 L: 42 WR: 36.84% John McCormack - GP: 47 W: 22 D : 15 L: 10 WR: 46.81% Jim Duffy - GP: 137 W: 57 D : 42 L: 38 WR: 41.61% Managers since I have been watching Dundee. Jocky (1st), Ivano, Duffy (2nd), Smith and Hartley, McCann & McIntyre's records are skewed by playing in the top flight. Therefore, discounting them then it ranks: 1. Jocky Scott (2nd) 2. John McCormack 3. John Brown 4. Alex Rae 5. Jim Duffy 6. James McPake 7. Gordon Chisholm 8. Alan Kernaghan Taking into account Hartley & Smith's first division/championship only record would see them slot in at: Barry Smith GP: 76 W: 36 D : 22 L: 18 WR: 47.37% - 3rd place Paul Hartley GP: 14 W: 9 D : 3 L: 3 WR: 64.29% - 1st place. Therefore, the only managers to have a poorer record than McPake at this level in almost 30 years are Kernaghan & Chisholm. Kernaghan almost certainly had a much, much lower budget than McPake and there's essentially a 1 win difference between Chisholm & McPake. Yer a b*****d @RossBFaeDundee. You do it and done it better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: Yer a b*****d @RossBFaeDundee. You do it and done it better. Well I kept it strictly to the league, specifically the Championship, so I'm counting that as unique. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinkle Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 No bad mate. Your mrs still loving the derry cock yeh?[emoji38] absolutely byling. Magnificent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewing Taffies Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Just now, Twinkle said: absolutely byling. Magnificent No need to be mate - everyone loves the derry boaby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Starting to believe these white sleeves are fucking curses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Twinkle said: Alright lads, hows things? Why do you have Jeremy Vine as your profile pic? Thank you. Edited November 21, 2020 by Bigmouth Strikes Again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Still not an acceptable result, but can anyone genuinely claim they are surprised by it? How many times can you start a match with a back three, watch the side fold, and bin it after 45mins to an hour, before it fucking dawns on you that it simply doesn't work for us? FWIW, I still genuinely believe that with the players we have back 3 is the correct setup for us, but it's clear that McPake and his staff are either incapable or organising it, the players are not grasping it, or there's some fundamental reason why it's failing over and over despite being persevered with time and time again. It could just simply be that the players are too shite, but I don't accept that because there are teams at a far lower level than Dundee with players who are far poorer who still manage to play with a back 3 system and do so perfectly competently. It seemed to be clicking when we had Berra back there, so I am tempted to believe that is is a case of not having that one key player organising and orchestrating the whole thing. That's a recruitment failing, which is ultimately down to McPake, again. Pleased to see the back of Hamilton, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us have a mediocre run of results, and McPake to bring him back, as if he's the answer to anything at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) One more stat dump because I'm depressed and this is all I want to do tonight apparently. Went and looked up how each of our first 5 games in every Championship season had went prior to this season, with all point totals updated to show a win as being worth 3 points. Obviously this doesn't mean much necessarily to season success, but just shows how this season is already comparing to others. 1st. 1991-92 (15 Pts) J-2nd. 1997-98, 2007-08 (13 Pts) J-4th. 1976-77, 1978-79 (11 Pts) J-6th. 1946-47, 1990-91, 1994-95, 2008-09 (10 Pts) J-10th.1977-78, 2009-10 (9 Pts) J-12th. 1996-97, 2005-06, 2013-14, 2019-20 (8 Pts) J-16th. 1938-39, 1995-96, 2010-11, 2011-12 (7 Pts) 20th. 2006-07 (6 Pts) 21st. 2020-21 (5 Pts) 22nd. 1980-81 (1 Pts) The good news is that the abysmal start to 1980-81 meant little as we were still promoted, but that team had 34 more games to turn the tide. McPake has 22. Also, the 12 goals conceded in the first 5 games is the most we've ever conceded in the first 5 games of any Championship. Fun fact, last season was joint-worst with the dismal 1938-39 season (9 GA) until today. 2nd worst GD at this point ever too (-5), just behind 1980-81 again. Anyone still not convinced this is probably our worst start to any season ever? Edited November 22, 2020 by RossBFaeDundee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Feels already like we're going to be in the same situation as last season, i.e. hoping that things settle down in the new year, and that we can claw our way back into some sort of position where we are still in the hunt. Still means we're doing everything the hard way though. It's a damning indictment that with only 5 games gone, a club that really should have been thinking about competing for the championship is more or less out of the running for that already. I can't see a situation whereby this gets turned around and we go on the sort of tear that would have us at the top of the table by April/May. You're talking about something like a 15 match unbeaten run, 12 wins or so in that time, and I just don't think that's remotely realistic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 McPake admitting in the paper that he spent the summer trying to replace Jack Hamilton in goal but couldn't find a keeper until Legzdins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 34 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: McPake admitting in the paper that he spent the summer trying to replace Jack Hamilton in goal but couldn't find a keeper until Legzdins. Holy f**k His signings of old team mates and local based players give me the fear. Anyway, how the f**k hasn’t he been sacked today 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 56 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: McPake admitting in the paper that he spent the summer trying to replace Jack Hamilton in goal but couldn't find a keeper until Legzdins. Not the wisest of things to finally admit to considering, should have been the top priority after the league was called. Mind you he's "100% confident" he can turn our form around. Like most on here, I'm swiftly losing interest in our worst ever team. 14 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said: The good news is that the abysmal start to 1980-81 meant little as we were still promoted, but that team had 34 more games to turn the tide. McPake has 22. Also, the 12 goals conceded in the first 5 games is the most we've ever conceded in the first 5 games of any Championship. Fun fact, last season was joint-worst with the dismal 1938-39 season (9 GA) until today. 2nd worst GD at this point ever too (-5), just behind 1980-81 again. Anyone still not convinced this is probably our worst start to any season ever? In case John Nelm's is not overly concerned as yet, worth noting an average of one point per game relegated Partick Thistle last season. Regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said: McPake admitting in the paper that he spent the summer trying to replace Jack Hamilton in goal but couldn't find a keeper until Legzdins. Interesting Man manager skills 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, Yenitit said: Anyway, how the f**k hasn’t he been sacked today I genuinely hate to have to tell you this, but he's not going anywhere 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 How long until Ross gets bored writing "I hate to tell you this but he's going nowhere"? I'll put £10 on December 26th. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. Alli said: How long until Ross gets bored writing "I hate to tell you this but he's going nowhere"? I'll put £10 on December 26th. Probably not until he goes somewhere, which I suspect won't be for quite some time. I'm glad it's getting annoying at this point though, that was the aim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 You could write it until the day you die and it still wouldn't be as annoying as McPake still being in a job this morning. Untoppable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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