All things Dundee FC

[harry94]

A rookie manager isn't going to admit that he's clueless and spends the majority of his time asking what someone else would do.
Strachan is heavily involved in everything that happens at Dundee footballing wise. There's hints of that if you want to see them. McPake has admitted, in the middle of conversations about different subjects, that Strachan is regularly consulted on things.
You won't believe me, and that's fine, I'm just telling you why you're stuck with a rookie manager even when McPake leaves.

Re the mentions of Strachan, I think this needs to be taken in context of his arrival at the club.

The club knew the optics of appointing another novice and made attempts to visualise the 'management team' at all costs, even before Strachan had a formal position, it wasn't even clear if McPake was manager or co-manager with Nicholl at the time of his arrival when you read the actual statement.

McPake's first interview was focused on emphasising that he had the approval of the 'auld heids' and 'advice'. It was the spin we were going for and drafted to alleviate fans concerns.

Having a technical director is very common for full time clubs and more likely the case than not. In our case, Strachan is on no contract and has dived into the academy stuff and there's never really been a suggestion from a first team player or management that he's really involved on that side.

I'm sure he's well trusted by Nelms and may well be the key person for major decisions but I don't think there's anything to suggest especially rare influence. Think we're full of shit and try to imply Strachan does a lot more than he does.

In all honesty, I would actually say we're probably giving way too much freedom to our manager and should have a full time technical director with one of their briefs being assisting on first team recruitment, as is the case in most of the top flight.

[Dee Bliss]

8 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

I honestly can't see McPake being canned before January, and only then if we're sitting 6th or lower in the table. I think it's more likely he makes it through the entire season only to be binned once the dust has settled.

This is the problem with tiered incompetence. By dumping your third managerial hire on the bounce, Nelms would essentially be admitting that he himself is utterly incompetent. After all, if McPake was the right guy for the job 18 months back, why is he no longer the right guy for the job right now? If he's not the right guy for the job, why the hell was he inserted into that role in the first place? 

I think there's a good possibility he makes it through the entire season only to be 'mutually consented', which would be a bit of a face-saver for Nelms.

Apologies, because I can't recall the precise poster right now, but the Motherwell fan who posted in here a few days back was spot on. At least when you have relatively competent executive staff, they're still going to appoint the occasional honking manager from time to time, but their core competence permits them to recognise the mistake quickly, rectify it in good time, and there's a far lesser chance that they go on to appoint a second complete donkey in quick succession. The failures are not as catastrophic, or as far-reaching, whereas the truth about Dundee FC is we are still dealing with the after effects of the idiotic appointments of McCann first of all, then McIntyre, while we are also dealing with a totally incompetent incumbent. 

You can still be a perfectly competent BoD/GM/CE etc, and admit that you screwed up and gave the managerial job to a numpty. That's the nature of appointing managers. No team gets it right every single time. Your competence is judged on how you react to a mistake, how you recover from it, and how frequent or infrequently you make mistakes in the first place. We appoint numpty after numpty, give them the means to totally rehash the playing squad including binning off all the previous numpty's signings, persevere with them for too long, then repeat the entire process over again. You can't build anything when you are starting from scratch constantly, but also lumbering yourself with the long-term consequences of one failed appointment after another.

One of the main things I'd hoped for out of the Strachan appointment was that we'd move away from giving the 1st team manager role to totally untested candidates that don't really make any sense in the first place. Obviously all managers have to start somewhere, and logic suggests that you're bound to find a decent rookie from time to time, but my concerns are that the last two we've appointed never struck me as remotely credible managerial candidates to begin with. They just don't give off manager 'vibes' at all. McCann talks like he understands the game well enough, but I wasn't surprised at all at his pig-headed determination to demand that players played in a manner that they were completely incapable of. I think that's one of the common flaws in very naturally gifted players, i.e. they simply can't comprehend that most players are not capable of doing the things they may have found relatively easy themselves. The McPake appointment baffled me, purely from the perspective that he comes across as being a bit thick. I feel horrible saying that, because he might well be a lovely guy in person, he's supposedly a decent youth coach, and there's no doubting his commitment to the club, however, I genuinely believe he lacks the mental capacity to grasp the subtleties of the tactical side of the game. There's a huge difference in terms of being a good day-to-day football coach, and a competent match-situation manager.  I can't recall a single performance in his year and a bit in charge where I felt he got the better of another manager tactically. So it seems that what we were told was going to be a 'Director of Football' type role for Strachan is really nothing of the sort, either that, or Strachan has no input into 1st team management appointments, or he does and he's just as bloody hopeless as Nelms at judging a manager. If that's not the case, surely McPake would have been binned by now for the Hamilton debacle and the inability to find a working tactical system alone.

the only thing I can add to that is Strachan’s title is Technical Direct and not Director of Football and has nothing to do with anything above the youths. I wish he was Director of Football. 

[RossBFaeDundee]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

There's not a single experienced manager who's going to put up with Strachan having a say in everything.

And if you don't believe Strachan is having a say in everything, then you're on the wrong track.

 

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

A rookie manager isn't going to admit that he's clueless and spends the majority of his time asking what someone else would do.

Strachan is heavily involved in everything that happens at Dundee footballing wise. There's hints of that if you want to see them. McPake has admitted, in the middle of conversations about different subjects, that Strachan is regularly consulted on things.

You won't believe me, and that's fine, I'm just telling you why you're stuck with a rookie manager even when McPake leaves.

Congratulations on somehow upping the ante on the level of shite you make up. Giuliani levels of doubling down on baseless claims.

[Boo Khaki]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

There's not a single experienced manager who's going to put up with Strachan having a say in everything.

I'm not completely convinced of that. Just because it's not the norm, or even a common set-up in Scotland, doesn't rule it out completely as a possibility. Provided you know exactly what you are getting into and the boundaries are quite clear, I don't see why the mere presence of Gordon Strachan would immediately send every potential experienced manager running for the hills. Some, probably most, are not going to contemplate it, but I don't agree that it would rule out every single last one.

Quote

And if you don't believe Strachan is having a say in everything, then you're on the wrong track.

I'm making no assertions either way about what Strachan does or doesn't do, I'm just not familiar enough with the inner-workings of the club to express a view. What I was getting at, is that I'd hoped by appointing Strachan there would be something of a safeguard against rank incompetence at every single level of the coaching, management, and executive structure of the club. That falls down if either Strachan himself is incompetent, or he has no role to play or input to give with regard to hirings. Firstly, I think he's been around the block too much and had far too many jobs to be just written off as an incompetent, and secondly, he may well have had a hand in appointing McPake, but I would have thought if that was the case, then his remit must also surely stretch to advising on the binning of McPake. Perhaps it's genuinely not something he takes any interest in, who knows? But if it is within his competence, then I would have thought that by now he'd have been in Nelms' ear suggesting that perhaps first team performances weren't up to an acceptable standard, and that perhaps faith in McPake is misplaced.

Looking at the structure of the club prior to bringing Strachan on board, I'm having a hard time believing that the only driving factor in bringing him in was his youth plan. There was a glaring lack of genuine, experienced 'football' men in senior roles at the club, so I think it's natural to conclude that he was also brought in to act in an advisory capacity regarding all matters football-related. If that's the case, why would Strachan persevere overlong with a failing manager before he expresses a view to the people paying the wages? That doesn't serve any purpose for Strachan either, because as much as you might want to imply that all he really wants is a dumb 'yes' man, the lack of satisfactory results is, in itself, a poor reflection on not just McPake but Strachan also. 

[Derry Alli]

Strachan is hardly ever in Dundee, never mind at Dens. Is he "having his say in everything" via e-mail, @RandomGuy.? 

[Robin.Hood]

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

you'd know that it was McPake that iniated getting Strachan on board as he wanted him as an advisor.

 

Is this fact ? 

[Dee Bliss]

That’s some line up today answers on a postcard what Sow’s done to get a start and sign a centrehalf and not play him. Is it back to 5 at the back again today

[Benjamin_Nevis]

That’s some line up today [emoji23] answers on a postcard what Sow’s done to get a start and sign a centrehalf and not play him. Is it back to 5 at the back again today

Just saw it on the match thread. My initial reaction was: [emoji23]

Now it's: [emoji23][emoji23]

[locheedee]

4 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

That’s some line up today answers on a postcard what Sow’s done to get a start and sign a centrehalf and not play him. Is it back to 5 at the back again today

Only bright spot is McPake has put Legzdins in the goal. Can only assume Fontaine isn't match fit that's he's not featuring but Ashcroft's getting over covid so I'd have him on the bench at least.

+

No idea wtf Sow is doing even near the team but have to think Mullen must be injured if he's not even on the bench. Not 100% sold on him yet but he's at least a better option than that shitebag...

[RossBFaeDundee]

Mullen self-isolating due to coming into close contact with someone with COVID. That'll be a full 14 days then.

[locheedee]

Just now, RossBFaeDundee said:

Mullen self-isolating due to coming into close contact with someone with COVID. That'll be a full 14 days then.

Hope Jakubiak shows something when Sow inevitably goes off with a mystery muscle strain then...

Any word on how long Afolabi is still out for - think I saw something saying he was due back soon?

[Derry Alli]

14 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

That’s some line up today answers on a postcard what Sow’s done to get a start and sign a centrehalf and not play him. Is it back to 5 at the back again today

Sow and McGowan up front. Long, direct passes get in behind quickly. UTILISE THE PACE. 

[RossBFaeDundee]

Just now, locheedee said:

Any word on how long Afolabi is still out for - think I saw something saying he was due back soon?

McPake said he should be back for next week, but this game was just a bit too soon.

[D TOTAL]

Has N.Hamilton had any minutes yet?

 

[RossBFaeDundee]

Just now, D TOTAL said:

Has N.Hamilton had any minutes yet?

 

About 3 against Cove Rangers. Got the ball once and lost it nearly immediately.

[D TOTAL]

6 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

About 3 against Cove Rangers. Got the ball once and lost it nearly immediately.

Already made more of an impact than Davies and SBJ put together- promising.

[Dee Bliss]

32 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Just saw it on the match thread. My initial reaction was:

Now it's:

Mines is just “ahh ffs I’ve paid for this sh!te again”

[Dee Bliss]

Mullen’s self isolating. 

[Dee Bliss]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

Sow and McGowan up front. Long, direct passes get in behind quickly. UTILISE THE PACE. 

Ayr better not play a high line or they’ll get punished

[Fifespud]

This is hilarious.