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8 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Genuinely scary folk would accept Simon Murray as our main centre forward for the upcoming season.

I'd like to know what he will apparently bring to the side? 

United fans wouldn't have him back. Hibernian fans wouldn't have him back. He is nowhere near good enough unless you're just wanting to howk it back to front aimlessly and watch somebody chase folk down Hoping THEY make a mistake. 

Case closed M'Lud...

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5 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Last season we had a centre forward who had previously scored 20+ in the division above, yet we struggled for goals for much of the season and couldn't play in a  way that exploited that particular player's qualities. Being a successful side isn't about the individual quality of one particular player.

If Dundee genuinely believe they should be pushing for promotion, then it follows that they should be looking to be on the front foot in most matches, doing more attacking than the opponent, and playing the game mainly in the oppositions half. We couldn't do that at all for most of last season despite having a striker that's individually a better player than Murray, but provided the other flaws in last season's approach are rectified, I still think Murray is more than capable of being a useful centre forward for a team with promotion chasing aspirations. He's a physical nuisance to play against, which should in theory help the team hold the ball further up the pitch and compress the play, and although it's clear he's not a prolific goal scorer, he really shouldn't have to be if the rest of the side also carries their weight.

Pound for pound I think Hemmings is still a far superior player than Murray overall, but strangely enough I think Murray would have been more effective than Hemmings was last season given the exact same role and with the team playing the same way, and I also think he can be a very effective player at Championship level if, and its a big 'if', McPake can actually figure out how to have the side playing more effectively this season. We need to start playing with a lot more urgency for starters. We supposedly had a few players who were of a quality above what you'd expect in this division, so it seems totally counterproductive to play a slow, patient style, when better players can supposedly cope with playing the game at a higher pace than technically poorer counterparts. We made life far too easy for most opponents last season, and I would hope that a player with the energy and workrate of Murray would naturally lead to us playing a bit more of a direct and aggressive style.

I agree with this but my worry is he's horrific at holding the ball up and winning stuff in the air with his back to goal, if we go the same way and style as we've done for a lot of last season, I don't see him being particularly effective either. We're going to need to build everything around his skillset and have the whole team playing that high press system winning the second ball etc.

I think we're probably still missing a midfielder - I like Gowser and Dorrans but both are old and have injuries creeping in, just feel we also need a younger athletic option in there. Ness is finished and all the youth are more attacking options. Virtanen who was on loan at Arbroath from Aberdeen last season would fit the bill and seems to be able to play a bit.

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9 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Genuinely scary folk would accept Simon Murray as our main centre forward for the upcoming season.

I'd like to know what he will apparently bring to the side? 

United fans wouldn't have him back. Hibernian fans wouldn't have him back. He is nowhere near good enough unless you're just wanting to howk it back to front aimlessly and watch somebody chase folk down Hoping THEY make a mistake. 

If it was choice between the two I'd pick Murray. 

Murray is championship level. 

I dont think Wighton is championship level or particularly any good at all.

For me its accepting we are building a championship team. If we were building for a team in the spfl you would scrap more or less the whole team. 

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He scored 10 for United when he was last at this level and was an absolute nightmare to play against, his physicality and pace were a constant pain. I get that he looked like a diddy in the prem apparently, but having seen him, Jak and Mullen at this level I'd take Murray by a long way. 
 
Providing he's recovered. 
At this level physicality is really important - unless Wighton has suddenly beefed himself up then I would rather have Murray. He is a complete nightmare to play against - I don't think you could say the same about Wighton.
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6 hours ago, Grant228 said:

but having seen him, Jak and Mullen at this level I'd take Murray by a long way. 

Here's hoping he signs for Dunfermline then. 

5 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

We made life far too easy for most opponents last season, and I would hope that a player with the energy and workrate of Murray would naturally lead to us playing a bit more of a direct and aggressive style.

I'm not really wanting us to try and bring through wonderfully talented youngsters like Robertson playing alongside Dorrans and then just watch up punt it long to Murray for him to chase. He can't control a ball, he can't pass a ball. He can't hold play up, literally all he has (possibly had) is an abundance of pace. If he signs, I'm out. I would keep an eye in though and when the complaining no doubt starts and shit starts get thrown at McPake for signing and playing such unadulterated shite I'll laugh. 

Nowhere near good enough. 

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

Here's hoping he signs for Dunfermline then. 

I'm not really wanting us to try and bring through wonderfully talented youngsters like Robertson playing alongside Dorrans and then just watch up punt it long to Murray for him to chase. He can't control a ball, he can't pass a ball. He can't hold play up, literally all he has (possibly had) is an abundance of pace. If he signs, I'm out. I would keep an eye in though and when the complaining no doubt starts and shit starts get thrown at McPake for signing and playing such unadulterated shite I'll laugh. 

Nowhere near good enough. 

I'm in agreement.

Wighton has scored a few goals for Dundee... went to heart's and em did zero and scored a few for Arbroath. He is now 23 years old ( didn't realise that) and has really did f**k all . ( that one goal though he can live off of).

However no matter what we can still blame Mcpake ( derryed out his nut as he checked up on our history ) as I presume these are all his signings.

I expect a few players still to come in or I hope so.

 

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24 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

I'm in agreement.

Wighton has scored a few goals for Dundee... went to heart's and em did zero and scored a few for Arbroath. He is now 23 years old ( didn't realise that) and has really did f**k all . ( that one goal though he can live off of).

However no matter what we can still blame Mcpake ( derryed out his nut as he checked up on our history ) as I presume these are all his signings.

I expect a few players still to come in or I hope so.

 

Bit passive aggressive this morning, Gman.

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3 hours ago, harry94 said:

I agree with this but my worry is he's horrific at holding the ball up and winning stuff in the air with his back to goal, if we go the same way and style as we've done for a lot of last season, I don't see him being particularly effective either. We're going to need to build everything around his skillset and have the whole team playing that high press system winning the second ball etc.

I think we're probably still missing a midfielder - I like Gowser and Dorrans but both are old and have injuries creeping in, just feel we also need a younger athletic option in there. Ness is finished and all the youth are more attacking options. Virtanen who was on loan at Arbroath from Aberdeen last season would fit the bill and seems to be able to play a bit.

Absolutely. I'm still a bit concerned about our midfield, specifically the lack of athleticism in there. We've got a load of decent central midfielders, but they're all a bit ponderous and not box-to-box types. It was a problem that was only really overcome last season after we switched back to a back three and Callachan came in. I was hoping we'd sign him permanently, but that's no longer an option, and it looks like it would have been a bit of a luxury under the circumstances. Any time we played with a midfield four the pair in the middle got overrun any time we lost the ball. It didn't matter which two we played, as soon as we lost the ball and they got turned around, the lack of dynamism was exposed and we were hilariously easy to play through. I don't think that's been sorted, so I think we have to continue playing three in the middle for now.

You're right about Murray not being a back to goal player, but there are other ways of effectively holding the ball up. You'd never describe Leigh Griffiths as a target man either, but he's perfectly proficient at holding the ball high up the pitch because he uses his movement to take it in space, then uses the space to hold on to it while the team press forward. Murray is clearly nowhere near the standard of player Griffiths is, but he has the energy and workrate to run constantly, so provided it's made clear what's expected of him I think he could certainly make that sort of role work at our level. I also think he's a useful player for those games where perhaps we're not going to dominate or control the play as much as we'd like. He's quick, or at least he was quick a couple of years ago, so he's still a threat to run onto anything punted from deep on the counter.

Edited by Boo Khaki
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Thought I'd have a read to see how you lot are reacting to the Jakubiak signing. Seems to be positive which is good as I think he can do a good job for you at this level. Mullen too. Lot of time for the lad. Neither seem to be double figure scorers, but then neither got a consistent run at St Mirren.

What's interesting though, is that there is a lot of chat about where you will get your goals, but from seeing Dundee fairly regularly 2 seasons ago, and seeing bits and pieces from them last year, your problem is not at the top end of the pitch. If Hamilton remains your #1 I cannot see you challenging Hearts.

Edited by Ric
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Yes, if we could only make one more signing, and it was a straight choice between a #1 keeper or a centre forward, I'd have the keeper. 

I'd happily terminate Hamilton's contract to make it happen, as I can't see any way Ferrie could be any more of a liability if we were forced into playing him.

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Thought I'd have a read to see how you lot are reacting the the Jakubiak signing. Seems to be positive which is good as I think he can do a good job for you at this level. Mullen too. Lot of time for the lad. Neither seem to be double figure scorers, but then neither got a consistent run at St Mirren.
What's interesting though, is that there is a of chat about where you lot will get your goals, but from seeing Dundee fairly regularly 2 seasons ago, and seeing bits and pieces from them last year, your problem is not at the top end of the pitch. If Hamilton remains your #1 I cannot see you challenging Hearts.
Yup, he's fucking shite.
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59 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Question is then, Is there a target man out there in our range whom we could realistically get?

Some Canadian by the name of Marcus Haber was floated and some other lad called Yordi Teijsse was too.

I think give em a shot imo.

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1 hour ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Question is then, Is there a target man out there in our range whom we could realistically get?

Dem9FyLlf2MZhl4c06LvanFu-20070717arbroathpr-0044pr.jpg.3257abeaf6e9f39eac34ad5cec8be0d4.jpg

Jan and Robbie. BM4L. 

One's already at the club and willing to do it for free. We're getting the gang back together. 

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