All things Dundee FC

[Derry Alli]

21 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

Think it was harry on here saying the under12s are good so going by the 10 year logic do we wait until a decent youngster comes through because right now even if any look remotely good we let them go.

Like who? 

Do you think Robertson should be playing every week, at 17 years old? 

[Ludo*1]

5 minutes ago, srw said:

 

McPake is the worst manager we have had in my lifetime, he makes Kernaghan look good.

 

That's outright nonsense. McPake might not make the list of good Dundee managers, but he's been nowhere near the worst in the past 15 years nevermind most people's lifetimes.

McIntyre, Kernaghan & Chisholm were all categorically worse. Subjectively you could throw in the likes of Jocky in as well considering budgets.

We are also on course to finish on a better points total than Alex Rae did in his first season.

I get McPake isn't doing a great job right now and we are getting closer to the stage where serious conversations need to be made, but fucking hell.

[RossBFaeDundee]

9 minutes ago, srw said:

McPake is the worst manager we have had in my lifetime, he makes Kernaghan look good. He is devoid of any positives bar building a decent looking squad, which he has then massively underachieved with.

Apparently forgotten our two most recent managers before Jazza. The coldest of takes, right there.

[srw]

I think McCann was better than McPake by a good bit, McIntyre has been blocked out of my mind. 

Given the budget and ability to sign his own squad, I think he is worse than Chisholm and Rae. 

Edited to say, looking back, we have had some utter dross.

Edited November 25, 2019 by srw

[Robin.Hood]

Like who? 

Do you thi k Robertson should be playing every week, at 17 years old? 

Are we being serious? Since the americans have taken over we have released plenty youngsters.

We scrapped the entire under 17 team if that counts keeping 4, 2 if whom were 15 so have a little more time to impress.

 

If you are good enough to play then yes, however I am presuming he either isnt good enough or mcpake hasnt a clue about his ability, I mean right now the midfield isnt exactly doing the greatest of jobs.

We should be looking to put players out on loan , but then it seems we are short of players to do this.

 

[Derry Alli]

7 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

Are we being serious? Since the americans have taken over we have released plenty youngsters.

We scrapped the entire under 17 team if that counts keeping 4, 2 if whom were 15 so have a little more time to impress.

 

If you are good enough to play then yes, however I am presuming he either isnt good enough or mcpake hasnt a clue about his ability, I mean right now the midfield isnt exactly doing the greatest of jobs.

We should be looking to put players out on loan , but then it seems we are short of players to do this.

You said we release any that look good enough. I've asked you who falls into that category. 

I'd guess McPake has plenty idea about his ability, he brought him in out of nowhere and continually played him. 

I absolutely agree about punting players out on loan. 

[RossBFaeDundee]

10 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

Are we being serious? Since the americans have taken over we have released plenty youngsters.
If you are good enough to play then yes, however I am presuming he either isnt good enough or mcpake hasnt a clue about his ability, I mean right now the midfield isnt exactly doing the greatest of jobs.
We should be looking to put players out on loan , but then it seems we are short of players to do this.

Oh come on, you are really stretching it now. You know the quality of the individual midfielders isn't the problem with the team. Fin doesn't get in because there are 3 or 4 experienced players ahead of him in the depth chart. McPake knows probably more than anyone about Fin (y'know... because he coached him growing up). The problem is now there's too much depth in the CM role, definitely not his ability. I'd say put him out on loan where he'll have plenty of takers in League One, possibly the Championship.

McPake stated his aim is to get some of the youth players out on loan in January. I think possibly Fin (though Jazza might want to keep him here due to his ability, and I couldn't blame him, though he is not getting gametime), Moore, and possibly others like Mulligan and Anderson. Get a couple in during January window (imo a LM/LW and CB cover are needed).

Edited November 25, 2019 by RossBFaeDundee

[Robin.Hood]

You said we release any that look good enough. I've asked you who falls into that category. 
I'd guess McPake has plenty idea about his ability, he brought him in out of nowhere and continually played him. 
I absolutely agree about punting players out on loan. 

You can agree about punting players out on loan but it wont happen as we are short on players. Think somebody said we have 1 player out on loan ( maybe a second).
Their was a lad scoring for I think berwick ( may have been two seasons with a different name ) however he got zero opportunity. Was one more but think he got injured. Yup out my depth on this one bar we dont really give any youngsters a chance or if we do not for long.
Hamilton for example just seem to throw them in the air and financially it pays off.

[Robin.Hood]

Oh come on, you are really stretching it now. You know the quality of the individual midfielders isn't the problem with the team. Fin doesn't get in because there are 3 or 4 experienced players ahead of him in the depth chart. McPake knows probably more than anyone about Fin (y'know... because he coached him growing up). The problem is now there's too much depth in the CM role, definitely not his ability. I'd say put him out on loan where he'll have plenty of takers in League One, possibly the Championship.
McPake stated his aim is to get some of the youth players out on loan in January. I think possibly Fin (though Jazza might want to keep him here due to his ability, and I couldn't blame him, though he is not getting gametime), Moore, and possibly others like Mulligan and Anderson. Get a couple in during January window (imo a LM/LW and CB cover are needed).

3 or 4 players ahead of him who are under achieving?
Dorrans is our quality.
McGowan you get say 60 minutes out of him at best.
Byrne I quite like but has had more bad games than good.
McDaid we got warned about and he again turns up when he feels like it.
Ness if stays fit see what he can do.
The players you have mentioned, the likelihood of these players getting a run in first team? I'm agreeing with out on loan but why not in our first team who are in general pretty shit ?

[Derry Alli]

The striker you're talking of is Cedwyn Scott. A guy who, if you read reports from boys who go to the games, was nowhere near ready for the step up to first team level. 

He's currently without a team after neither Berwick nor Forfar signed him. 

[Robin.Hood]

The striker you're talking of is Cedwyn Scott. A guy who, if you read reports from boys who go to the games, was nowhere near ready for the step up to first team level. 
He's currently without a team after neither Berwick nor Forfar signed him. 

Ah yes. I'm also wrong as we didnt bring him through, from Huddersfield which I didnt realise. So it's just Kerr we have kept as nobody else has been good enough.

Hopefully Robertson is the next player in or Ross mentioned a few who do well.

[RossBFaeDundee]

14 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

3 or 4 players ahead of him who are under achieving?
Dorrans is our quality.
McGowan you get say 60 minutes out of him at best.
Byrne I quite like but has had more bad games than good.
McDaid we got warned about and he again turns up when he feels like it.
Ness if stays fit see what he can do.
The players you have mentioned, the likelihood of these players getting a run in first team? I'm agreeing with out on loan but why not in our first team who are in general pretty shit ?

Dorrans is playing far too deep imo, should reserve that role for Byrne/Ness, should be more of a CAM-type player. McDaid seems to be our most creative player, and I think he's been largely good this season. In my world, Ness and Byrne are the two holding MFs, Dorrans more attacking, and Gowser taking Dorrans' place in the latter half of the game. We have plenty of quality, the problem is utilising it as effectively as possible. My main issue with McPake is his insistence on attacking the wings with McDaid, but throwing in 4 CMs at once in the squad. I believe McPake knows their strengths, but my issue with him currently is his inability to figure out how to set them up. It feels like a simple issue that he's just not fixing.

As for the youth, aside from 19-year old Callum Moore, they're all under 18. They're also largely midfielders, the part of our squad with the most depth. Robertson can definitely challenge for a first team spot, but the others would struggle currently. Moore's only app is as an extra time sub against Aberdeen, but he's sat on the bench for the most part. Mulligan had several League Cup apps, and Anderson, Cameron & Cunningham had one each. They're still young for this level, but could probably have a decent spell on loan, if our squad's depth was larger. I think there's good potential in our youth, but it still might be a year or two away before we get a clearer picture of what their ceilings are. Only thing we can be sure of is that Robertson has the makings of a cracking player.

Edited November 25, 2019 by RossBFaeDundee

[Shadow Play]

2 hours ago, stu2910 said:

I do get that, but arguable we have improved even if it doesn’t feel like it. The only tangible comparison we can make is that last season Ayr and Dunfermline beat us at Dens, while we were lucky to lose 4-1 to QoS over 2 games. This season we’ve beaten Ayr twice and drawn away at the other 2. The only major blips have been the Elgin game and the derbies. After that, Cove and Peterhead weren’t great but still very early on and Morton away was frustrating but hardly awful.

Where do you think we would be with last years manager and squad still here?

I’m not saying with the same manager (for very obvious reasons) but with a manager who had experience of this sort of league and knew how to set out a team properly I honestly think that even with the same players as last season we would probably be in a position where we would have had more than  two shots at goal in the last two games 

With a bit of luck we may even have got a manager who doesn’t start with one up front and when that isn’t working just simply chuck on another striker about the 60 minute mark.  Who knows with a manager with a better knowledge of management we may have played more than one up front against Alloa and Arbroath at home. 

Of course we will never know where we may be if things were different but surely it couldn’t be as boring as the football we are all paying to see at the moment.

[RossBFaeDundee]

7 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

I’m not saying with the same manager (for very obvious reasons) but with a manager who had experience of this sort of league and knew how to set out a team properly I honestly think that even with the same players as last season we would probably be in a position where we would have had more than  two shots at goal in the last two games 

With a bit of luck we may even have got a manager who doesn’t start with one up front and when that isn’t working just simply chuck on another striker about the 60 minute mark.  Who knows with a manager with a better knowledge of management we may have played more than one up front against Alloa and Arbroath at home. 

Of course we will never know where we may be if things were different but surely it couldn’t be as boring as the football we are all paying to see at the moment.

I wanted Jim Goodwin or Derek Adams. Goodwin wanted to be at St Mirren, and Adams didn't want to be in Scottish football.

Edited November 25, 2019 by RossBFaeDundee

[Shadow Play]

Just now, RossBFaeDundee said:

I wanted Jim Goodwin.

Yeh I would have definitely liked him, although St Mirren would always be a stronger draw for him I’d guess.

[RawB93]

Honestly astounded at the amount of people who think more strikers = more goals.

 

[DieDee]

31 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

Honestly astounded at the amount of people who think more strikers = more goals.

 

Honestly astounded at 2 shots on target in 2 games 

[Shadow Play]

43 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

Honestly astounded at the amount of people who think more strikers = more goals.

 

One striker up front works when you have a team full of creative midfielders that can shoot, run at defences and link up with the striker and other midfielders in a positive way.  In case you haven’t noticed, we don’t have that.

A mate who went to the game on Saturday said the only decent pass he saw all day was the Drumochter Pass.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Shadow Play

[Benjamin_Nevis]

When McPake's risible derby tactics of isolating our (previously) most prolific forward for years on his own up front completely failed and he left changing things far too late, why in the name of purple f**k didn't he learn from it in the Caley game? Not only is he out of his depth, but how long do you think Johnson is going to be happy sitting on the bench whilst we labour to a pass back on target each week with one up front? If McPake lasts the season we'll finish 4th at best with a likely disgruntled squad which will bottle the play offs. Utter pish.

[Dee Bliss]

1 of the many things that is bylin my p!ss as they say is, if his chosen formation is 4-2-3-1 I don’t think he’s filled his squad with the right types. The number 10 role in that formation is hugely important. A guy who is good on the ball, can pick a pass, go past players, can get about the park and has pace to get beyond the lone striker is a priority.  Without being harsh that isn’t Gowser and he needs to come out of that position. His lack of wide players whether out and out wingers or natural wide midfielders is a joke. If he thinks a 17 year old from Rangers is the answer week in week out he’s ripping the p!ss out of us. Looks like he’s inherited a player in Todd he doesn’t want to play. Also if he’s trying to tell us this formation is an attacking 4-3-3 he’s at it again. 
 

For what it’s worth I can see why he went for Meekings on Saturday. I presume he thought he’d deal better aerially with the big lads up front from Inverness than McGhee. Still like most I thought Kerr was 1 of the better performers in the derby which wasn’t hard in a particularly dire game that would get football stopped and I include both teams in that. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Yenitit