All things Dundee FC

[Derry Alli]

58 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

I’d be tempted to go back to Hartley, although I know many won’t agree with that.

Ole! Ole! Ole! Ole! 

Hartley! 

Hartley! 

[RossDee01]

I'd have Hartley back in a heartbeat. Last manager that I remember at least some form of entertaining football under. (Last season excepted)

Unfortunately couldn’t see it happening. Not sure he would come even if asked tbh. A section of the fans were fairly brutal towards him at the end of his time here.

 

Edited to add that the way things are going his current team could be at a higher level than us in 5 years time

[MacArab]

13 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Please be true . . .

Mcpake should be given until at least the next Derby to prove himself imo.....

[Shadow Play]

4 hours ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said:

Agree about McPake being the dullest man in the world, his interviews don't fill me with confidence, in fact it's a struggle to stay awake.
Thank you.

Correct.  He comes across as the son and the heir of a shyness that is criminally vulgar.  

Doesn’t strike me as someone who can motivate players.

[RossBFaeDundee]

What a shit draw.

[This Charming Man]

1 hour ago, Shadow Play said:

Correct.  He comes across as the son and the heir of a shyness that is criminally vulgar.  

Doesn’t strike me as someone who can motivate players.

Absolutely spot on Shadow my man.

So for once in my life, let me get what I want,

Lord knows it would be the first time. 

Best regards 

 

[rainbowrising]

That Cup draw is an excellent chance to assess the strength of our squad against top league opposition........

 

[stu2910]

This thread could be one of the biggest overreactions on P&B which would certainly be saying something.

Last season we had such a horrific run that despite losing almost the entire squad at the end of the season, the depression was still around the club, especially in the stands. We appointed a rookie manager which everyone criticised, despite the fact that our worst manager this decade was the most experienced. Other than him, Smith, Hartley, McCann, McPake and even Brown had decent spells during their time in charge.

We have built a team from scratch, with a back room team built from scratch, yet after an extremely unpredictable start to the season, with a toxic atmosphere around the club, we are a maximum of 6 points off 2nd place, sitting in the playoff spots and only any real distance behind the biggest spenders in the league who had a settled team and added a striker that can’t stop scoring. Anyone that believed we would be significantly better off than this is delusional and considering what’s happened to St Mirren and Patrick after relegation in recent years, and Falkirk over a longer period, McPake has done a fantastic job to make sure the club avoids going the same way.

People saying this is a worse period in the clubs history than basically anything between 1980 and 2014 need their heads examined. It’s also obvious that off the field the club cant even be compared with the one that started in Div 1 in 2005.

At no point have we ever stuck with a manager for more than a few seasons and look where that’s got us. The idea that you can continuously change everything about a club in the hope that one day it all clicks is ridiculous.

Wtf happened to spirit of the 2010/11 season? Many people raise those players up as heroes that changed the course of our clubs history and to an extent they’re right. But the fight started in the stands when everyone came together to make sure that no matter what was happening on the pitch, the players knew the fans would be right behind them.

Is it depressing to see Utd run away with the league - of course it is.

Is it disappointing to not be at least comfortable in 2nd - of course.

Could a more experienced manager have done a better job up to this point - possibly but unlikely.

Is the club ever going to reach the levels we want it to if we keep calling for every man and his dog to be sacked cause we lost a game - not a hope in hell.

[srw]

Thats a cracking defeatist post, summed up perfectly by the second last sentence.

6 points off second place, in the second league in Scotland, lets all rejoice.

No wonder our club is an abject failure if this is what is acceptable.

[stu2910]

Thats a cracking defeatist post, summed up perfectly by the second last sentence.
6 points off second place, in the second league in Scotland, lets all rejoice.
No wonder our club is an abject failure if this is what is acceptable.

Well done in completely ignoring everything about the post to focus on one sentence. We have literally just had the worst run in the clubs history, but 4 months into the recovery period people are wanting to sack everybody.

If we were sitting top of the league right now considering everything that’s happened then McPake should have got the Spurs job.

[srw]

15 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

Well done in completely ignoring everything about the post to focus on one sentence. We have literally just had the worst run in the clubs history, but 4 months into the recovery period people are wanting to sack everybody.

If we were sitting top of the league right now considering everything that’s happened then McPake should have got the Spurs job.

I could comment on each point, but we wont agree, so its pointless really.

The recovery period must show signs of recovery, of which there are none. Thats the absolute key issue.

If your auntie had baws.......

Who says we should be sitting top, seriously, I don't think anyone has said that, certainly not that I can recall. Theres a massive difference from expecting instant success, and expecting signs of improvement, no one expects the 1st, but the 2nd should be the minimum, and its quite clearly not happening. Still, lets dawdle along, eyes closed, fingers crossed.

[Robin.Hood]

Well done in completely ignoring everything about the post to focus on one sentence. We have literally just had the worst run in the clubs history, but 4 months into the recovery period people are wanting to sack everybody.

If we were sitting top of the league right now considering everything that’s happened then McPake should have got the Spurs job.

Mcpake hasnt a clue.
Tactically he seems clueless, would you disagree ?
Lots of changes in youth with new coaches etc Many players have we produced since the Americans have been in charge?
Mcpake needs help if we are to hit any sort of form. He has spent on big players ( dorrans and hemmings I cant imagine they will be on pennies ) out budget is higher than a good few teams in the top league and we are still struggling.

The club is not in a good place and Mcpake sadly isnt helping and like every other manager the board have backed him

[stu2910]

I could comment on each point, but we wont agree, so its pointless really.
The recovery period must show signs of recovery, of which there are none. Thats the absolute key issue.
If your auntie had baws.......
Who says we should be sitting top, seriously, I don't think anyone has said that, certainly not that I can recall. Theres a massive difference from expecting instant success, and expecting signs of improvement, no one expects the 1st, but the 2nd should be the minimum, and its quite clearly not happening. Still, lets dawdle along, eyes closed, fingers crossed.

I do get that, but arguable we have improved even if it doesn’t feel like it. The only tangible comparison we can make is that last season Ayr and Dunfermline beat us at Dens, while we were lucky to lose 4-1 to QoS over 2 games. This season we’ve beaten Ayr twice and drawn away at the other 2. The only major blips have been the Elgin game and the derbies. After that, Cove and Peterhead weren’t great but still very early on and Morton away was frustrating but hardly awful.

Where do you think we would be with last years manager and squad still here?

[stu2910]

Mcpake hasnt a clue.

Tactically he seems clueless, would you disagree ?

Lots of changes in youth with new coaches etc Many players have we produced since the Americans have been in charge?

Mcpake needs help if we are to hit any sort of form. He has spent on big players ( dorrans and hemmings I cant imagine they will be on pennies ) out budget is higher than a good few teams in the top league and we are still struggling.

 

The club is not in a good place and Mcpake sadly isnt helping and like every other manager the board have backed him

Regarding youth we are certainly not doing any worse now than in the years previous. In terms of youths having a major impact on the first team since admin 1, we’ve had Kevin McDonald, Scott Robertson, Paul Dixon, Craig Forsyth...maybe Brian Deasley if we are being generous. Anyone else?

 

Since they’ve come in we’ve had, Cammy, Wighton, Jesse Curran and probably Fin Robertson. Kerr Waddell should have had more opportunities too and there were several youths at the start of this season looking promising. By its nature it’s hard to judge youth investment over any less than 10 years anyway.

 

I do agree that tactically McPake has looked questionable, not so much in terms of line ups but subs have been baffling at times. I do have faith that he will improve given more than 20 games though.

 

In terms of spending, I don’t think at any point in my lifetime (90s onwards) we have ever finished higher than we have budgeted to? We have rarely ever matched it. That’s not just a problem with the current owners or manager and other than potentially the new stadium complex I’m not sure what we can do to change that without hoping for a miracle appointment.

[Pull My Strings]

1 hour ago, stu2910 said:

...

Anyone that believed we would be significantly better off than this is delusional and considering what’s happened to St Mirren and Patrick after relegation in recent years, and Falkirk over a longer period, McPake has done a fantastic job to make sure the club avoids going the same way.
...

 

[stu2910]

Fair enough maybe that’s a bit far, but I was genuinely worried at the start of the season that double relegation was a possibility.

[Robin.Hood]

 

 

Regarding youth we are certainly not doing any worse now than in the years previous. In terms of youths having a major impact on the first team since admin 1, we’ve had Kevin McDonald, Scott Robertson, Paul Dixon, Craig Forsyth...maybe Brian Deasley if we are being generous. Anyone else?

 

Since they’ve come in we’ve had, Cammy, Wighton, Jesse Curran and probably Fin Robertson. Kerr Waddell should have had more opportunities too and there were several youths at the start of this season looking promising. By its nature it’s hard to judge youth investment over any less than 10 years anyway.

 

I do agree that tactically McPake has looked questionable, not so much in terms of line ups but subs have been baffling at times. I do have faith that he will improve given more than 20 games though.

 

In terms of spending, I don’t think at any point in my lifetime (90s onwards) we have ever finished higher than we have budgeted to? We have rarely ever matched it. That’s not just a problem with the current owners or manager and other than potentially the new stadium complex I’m not sure what we can do to change that without hoping for a miracle appointment.

 

Since the Americans in we have found nobody.

Kerr is not as good as he use to be

Waddell is at ?

And Curran sure somebody said hasnt a club

We gave Robertson a game but he has since went back into youths ( I think ).

The ones you mentioned in your first paragraph were good players , how much money did we make out of them?

Think was harry on here saying the under12s are good so going by the 10 year logic do we wait until a decent youngster comes through because right now even if any look remotely good we let them go.

 

Surely if we are chucking big wages we expect better results ? Regarding lines up, one upfront and playing players out of position ( unless Nelson is a left winger but isnt exactly paying off )

 

[RossBFaeDundee]

I will concede that after Saturday I find myself much less enthusiastic and more pissed off. As has been made aware, I want McPake to succeed and want to believe that he will learn quickly and give us something to feel positive about this season, and hopefully have us promoted by 2021. I'd made my case through bad results, and felt vindicated to an extent through the 3-game winning streak. While the derby game was dreadful, if you look past the rivalry we lost to the best team in the league, so I didn't consider it the end of the world. On paper, Saturday's loss wasn't really either, as we lost a tight game to another team vying for promotion at their home, a place we've never won at in a league game.

However, the nature of the loss was disgraceful, and for me it all centered around that line-up. Cammy, the best player in the derby, out for McGhee (who imo is far superior as a CB) and his role filled in by Meekings. Bizarrely enough, our issue in midfield now, in stark contrast to last season, is that we have too many experienced players for that area. Dorrans, Ness, Byrne and McGowan all fill those slots, and McPake feels he needs to play all of them. Controlling the midfield is good, but what does it mean when you are not doing anything with it? And not having Johnson in... for fucks sake. Only person who can get a decent shot on goal! Why play a 4-3-3 with Gowser up there when you have a fucking sharpshooter like Johnson on the bench? Jazza just shoves in whoever to any position available, and I'm pretty sure that's not a particularly ingenious idea. Gowser has been in his best form for a while this season, but he's not a striker. McPake had 2 weeks to analyse the derby failures and realise what his best team was. Instead I feel he just tinkered with the wrong areas and felt that now all his star CMs are fit he'll play all 4 of them in 1 team. Wonder why we barely managed a shot on goal...

This weeks' game vs QoS is extremely important imo. While losing isn't acceptable, it's more acceptable to a supposedly better team league-wise such as ICT away. QoS at home however... we should be winning these games, hands down. If we lose, I may have to cross the picket line in terms of my opinions of Jazza's managerial capabilities. I sincerely hope I don't have to though.

But why even argue? Whether you want him in or not, Jazza's not getting the sack under most circumstances, save a relegation battle.

Edited November 25, 2019 by RossBFaeDundee

[srw]

1 hour ago, stu2910 said:

I do get that, but arguable we have improved even if it doesn’t feel like it. The only tangible comparison we can make is that last season Ayr and Dunfermline beat us at Dens, while we were lucky to lose 4-1 to QoS over 2 games. This season we’ve beaten Ayr twice and drawn away at the other 2. The only major blips have been the Elgin game and the derbies. After that, Cove and Peterhead weren’t great but still very early on and Morton away was frustrating but hardly awful.

Where do you think we would be with last years manager and squad still here?

I genuinely wonder if you’re at it, that’s the only explanation. 

McPake is the worst manager we have had in my lifetime, he makes Kernaghan look good. He is devoid of any positives bar building a decent looking squad, which he has then massively underachieved with.  

Our goal scoring is pathetic, our play is dismal, our defence is iffy. Since you like comparisons, compare our squad with Arbroath’s, our budget, our results, what conclusion do you come to?

[Derry Alli]

20 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

Think it was harry on here saying the under12s are good so going by the 10 year logic do we wait until a decent youngster comes through because right now even if any look remotely good we let them go.

Like who? 

Do you thi k Robertson should be playing every week, at 17 years old?