All things Dundee FC

[Meeniedee]

5 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Think we are giving Curran a harder time than he deserves. He's never a striker/football player but he does add legs to the team. Not his fault McIntyre seen him as the main striker.

Bringing him off the bench for a knackered 40 year old Miller after 70 minutes to change things up or to help hold onto a lead and he'll be ideal.

hes fucking stinking worse than moussa...everything curran does moussa did better and moussa even scored a few.

[Ludo*1]

3 minutes ago, srw said:

Im hoping Miller isnt at Dens next season, his attitude is awful and he is finished as a player. If we can get rid of Curran as well, my god that would be outstanding news.

Think he'll eat the Championship up and he's not shown much of a bad attitude in his time at Dens so far tbf to him.

1 minute ago, Meeniedee said:

hes fucking stinking worse than moussa...everything curran does moussa did better and moussa even scored a few.

He certainly is worse than Moussa. But as an impact sub to harass defenders in the league below? I'd have Moussa in a heartbeat...

[srw]

1 minute ago, Meeniedee said:

hes fucking stinking worse than moussa...everything curran does moussa did better and moussa even scored a few.

Agreed.

He shouldnt on the pitch. The only shot I can remember him having was a 20 yard passback at St Johnstone, he simply cant score, he has no ability apart from running into players. Moussa who was utter shyte, was miles better,

Utd must have pissed themselves that we signed him.

[Meeniedee]

the problem was moussa was brought in to be our main striker if he was signed to do a curran type of role we'd probably have been happy with what he brought to the team....his hold up and link up play was decent but he was never a natural goalscorer…..curran is none of the above.

[Shadow Play]

Gowser has triggered another year on his contract as he has played 25 matches this season.

Does anyone know how many games he has actually played this year?

[srw]

6 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

Gowser has triggered another year on his contract as he has played 25 matches this season.

Does anyone know how many games he has actually played this year?

29 league appearances according to soccerbase

[Fifespud]

We all see games differently but to me the idea that anyone is worse than Moussa just doesn’t compute. The notion that Moussa’s hold up play was good is utter nonsense and folk are looking back with rose tinted glasses. Moussa is probably the most ineffective player I’ve ever seen. He was complete dogshite, a total donkey, fucking useless.

[Dindeleux]

Ayr wouldve finished below Morton, and been involved in the relegation battle, if you remove Shanklands goals from their season, McCall is surely a joke shout.
I hope its Hughes.

What a stupid way of looking at it.

[Shadow Play]

7 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

We all see games differently but to me the idea that anyone is worse than Moussa just doesn’t compute. The notion that Moussa’s hold up play was good is utter nonsense and folk are looking back with rose tinted glasses. Moussa is probably the most ineffective player I’ve ever seen. He was complete dogshite, a total donkey, fucking useless.

That could describe Moussa or Curran to be fair.

[srw]

30 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

The notion that Moussa’s hold up play was good is utter nonsense and folk are looking back with rose tinted glasses. Moussa is probably the most ineffective player I’ve ever seen. He was complete dogshite, a total donkey, fucking useless.

Totally agree, until Curran comes into sight.

[Ludo*1]

He's the cheap option, but I honestly wouldn't be upset if we gave McPake the job. Perfect time to do so if any. He's more experienced than McCann was at the point we appointed him and he's got his pro license. We would need someone with a lot of experience beside him and no one instantly comes to mind which is the main problem.

A combination of McPake/Irvine and let's say Archie Knox/Craig Brown/Jocky Scott/Jim Jefferies/Jim Duffy type would be absolutely ideal. None of those are realistic and would they get on with McPake? 

[Ludo*1]

Squad for next year as it stands:

Goalkeepers

#1: Jack Hamilton (25) - May 2021

#: Calum Ferrie (20) - May 2020

Defenders

#3: Nathan Ralph (26) - May 2020

#14: Andrew Davies (34) - May 2020

#24: Josh Meekings (26) - May 2020

 

Midfielders

#18: Paul McGowan (31) - May 2020

 

Strikers

#20: Kenny Miller (39) - May 2020

#21: Andrew Nelson (21) - May 2021

#23: Craig Curran (29) - May 2021

[Moo]

Squad for next year as it stands:
Goalkeepers
#1: Jack Hamilton (25) - May 2021
#: Calum Ferrie (20) - May 2020
Defenders
#3: Nathan Ralph (26) - May 2020
#14: Andrew Davies (34) - May 2020
#24: Josh Meekings (26) - May 2020
 
Midfielders
#18: Paul McGowan (31) - May 2020
 
Strikers
#20: Kenny Miller (39) - May 2020
#21: Andrew Nelson (21) - May 2021
#23: Craig Curran (29) - May 2021

You could add Josh Todd to that list as I guess he’ll still be signing.

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

 

You could add Josh Todd to that list as I guess he’ll still be signing.

 

Forgot about him.

I've not included Moore and Anderson as I don't know whether they'll just be supplementing the squad or right in about it next season.

[harry94]

He's the cheap option, but I honestly wouldn't be upset if we gave McPake the job. Perfect time to do so if any. He's more experienced than McCann was at the point we appointed him and he's got his pro license. We would need someone with a lot of experience beside him and no one instantly comes to mind which is the main problem.
A combination of McPake/Irvine and let's say Archie Knox/Craig Brown/Jocky Scott/Jim Jefferies/Jim Duffy type would be absolutely ideal. None of those are realistic and would they get on with McPake? 

For me, it's definitely the worst time.

If you look through young managers who have went on to have good careers or do a good job, they usually start off in their first job by having some sort of spine of a team in place and working with that. When it comes to recruiting a whole side, it gets much tougher and that's when the wheels start to come off.

He's a really good guy but his coaching career has been spent with the 18s and not really around first teamers. That's an asset in some ways if those guys come through but it's a huge risk that he can go and sign 10-15 players first time of asking, especially with time limitations and not having any structure in place for another football person with a network.

[Ludo*1]

3 minutes ago, harry94 said:

For me, it's definitely the worst time.

If you look through young managers who have went on to have good careers or do a good job, they usually start off in their first job by having some sort of spine of a team in place and working with that. When it comes to recruiting a whole side, it gets much tougher and that's when the wheels start to come off.

He's a really good guy but his coaching career has been spent with the 18s and not really around first teamers. That's an asset in some ways if those guys come through but it's a huge risk that he can go and sign 10-15 players first time of asking, especially with time limitations and not having any structure in place for another football person with a network.

You can apply that logic to absolutely anyone though. Paul Hartley had a rebuild job with Alloa and took them up twice in 2 seasons because the freedom allowed him to build the squad exactly as he wanted.

It's a huge risk for anyone.

If we get promoted next season, and he takes over whilst we are in a relegation battle - That'd be a worse time. Or if we fail to get up next season and we have less of a parachute payment with duds tied down to longer deals - That'd be a worse time.

We are a blank canvas right now. There'll never be a perfect time, but this is as good as it gets as Ross County proved this season.

[harry94]

You can apply that logic to absolutely anyone though. Paul Hartley had a rebuild job with Alloa and took them up twice in 2 seasons because the freedom allowed him to build the squad exactly as he wanted.
It's a huge risk for anyone.
If we get promoted next season, and he takes over whilst we are in a relegation battle - That'd be a worse time. Or if we fail to get up next season and we have less of a parachute payment with duds tied down to longer deals - That'd be a worse time.
We are a blank canvas right now. There'll never be a perfect time, but this is as good as it gets as Ross County proved this season.

The difference with Hartley is that he was working previously with players at a level who were perfect for Alloa at that time. Old pros who he knew like Darren Young and Robbie Winters and then youngsters like Bain, McCord, Doyle etc who were falling down the ladder and he knew from playing/coaching in the under 20s league and were released or available on loan.

McPakes last few 5 years have been spent with Dundee and the last 2 or so spent with the kids. I'm sure he knows people but it's not immediately obvious that he's got an easy source of players to tap into in the way that you could see Hartley did.

[Ludo*1]

11 minutes ago, harry94 said:

The difference with Hartley is that he was working previously with players at a level who were perfect for Alloa at that time. Old pros who he knew like Darren Young and Robbie Winters and then youngsters like Bain, McCord, Doyle etc who were falling down the ladder and he knew from playing/coaching in the under 20s league and were released or available on loan.

McPakes last few 5 years have been spent with Dundee and the last 2 or so spent with the kids. I'm sure he knows people but it's not immediately obvious that he's got an easy source of players to tap into in the way that you could see Hartley did.

I'm sorry Harry, but just because it's not immediately obvious doesn't mean anything. I feel for whatever reason, you're just not feeling McPake which is fair enough but you're clutching at straws with that point and you previously asserted that you thought he wouldn't want to be a manager either, which is now clearly not the case.

I'm not saying McPake will grow into being a sensational manager, but in my opinion if there's a time to give an untested coach the job it's when there is a blank canvas and the biggest budget in the league opposed to a firefighting situation.

[harry94]

I'm sorry Harry, but just because it's not immediately obvious doesn't mean anything. I feel for whatever reason, you're just not feeling McPake which is fair enough but you're clutching at straws with that point and you previously asserted that you thought he wouldn't want to be a manager either, which is now clearly not the case.
I'm not saying McPake will grow into being a sensational manager, but in my opinion if there's a time to give an untested coach the job it's when there is a blank canvas and the biggest budget in the league opposed to a firefighting situation.

I'm not saying it does. I'm saying I'm ignorant of all of the facts about how he'd operate but just on the face of it (i.e. a daft fan with no inside knowledge), there's no real suggestion of how he'd operate and on paper, he's a novice youth coach. It doesn't seem logical to me to say 'x manager is experienced and was shite so let's just give it to the opposite'.

That might not be the case but I'd just hate for the next five to six weeks to be spent on him just having YouTube videos thrown in his direction and having insufficient information needed to commit potentially upwards of £1 million long-term into Dundee's books.

I'm not totally against him but I just think it's a bit of a tightrope whilst someone like Ian McCall has been brilliant at squad building for years and that's the biggest thing we need right now with no squad.

If we're going the route of a novice, at least someone like Stewart Petrie has actually spent a few years in first team management at part time level so that would make more sense to me.

[Kyle]

18 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I'm sorry Harry, but just because it's not immediately obvious doesn't mean anything. I feel for whatever reason, you're just not feeling McPake which is fair enough but you're clutching at straws with that point and you previously asserted that you thought he wouldn't want to be a manager either, which is now clearly not the case.

I'm not saying McPake will grow into being a sensational manager, but in my opinion if there's a time to give an untested coach the job it's when there is a blank canvas and the biggest budget in the league opposed to a firefighting situation.

Surely in the conditions described above, an experienced manager/coach is the way to go? A blank canvas and big budget could go either way - just look at what happened to Falkirk last season - but surely bringing in a manager with experience of building squads at a club playing below their natural level is a more sensible approach?