All things Dundee FC

[Crawford]

I've got the day off. Who's heading to the wee derby? Free entry at Dens at 2.

[Widge]

I’ve always liked Cammy Kerr. Remember the season he started playing and this wiry little kid was going through players left right and centre, in a fair manner and wasn’t shirking a tackle. Limited going forward but defensively sound. I’d certainly take him and have him and Foster battle it out for a starting spot. Lack of competition and burden of expectation seem to have stalled his development. He wouldn’t get an easy ride of it at saints coming from Dundee, but if he did all would be forgotten the moment he gets stuck in.

All hypothetical for what it’s worth, I expect him to stay at Dundee since he’s born and bred. Sometimes it’s hard for these guys though since they almost try too hard as fans and take criticism very personally, we’ve the same issue with Wotherspoon tbh. It shows he cares more than anything.

[RossDee01]

I’ve been Cammy’s biggest critic this season but I would also keep him. Not sure McIntyre sees him in his plans though.

[harry94]

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Absolutely wouldn't be getting rid of Cammy. He won't be on a great wage and he's a better rotational option that most have in the league. We need to build a squad to be successful, not just a key starting 11 and I think people don't recognise that sometimes. Same goes with Gowser.

This summer, we let Holt go and then replaced him with someone totally untested. Ralph has come on to be very good but we relied on him alone which was a mistake when he took time and also was injured.

In Hartley's last season, he let Konrad go. Konrad wasn't spectacular but he was generally injury free and played around 70 games for us where he performed very well for 90% of them. We then let him go and spent the summer window scrambling around for another centre back before ending up with Kevin Gomis who was leaving a team at quite a high level and would have been on a fair bit of money. We got one or two good games out of Gomis but he was very erratic and I don't really think many people would argue he was better business than keeping Konrad.

Hartley also let Jim McAlister walk out the door and he was a valuable utility man who we never really replaced. The next few years, we often had gutless midfields and sometimes just had no one to fill certain gaps, leading to magical mystery formations etc. The same window, Letheren was replaced by David Mitchell (which certainly wasn't an improvement) and there are a few others I can think of similar.

Whatever you maybe think about specific players, it's not the worst thing in the world to have someone pretty bang average and keep them for longer. People talk about needing to progress etc but quite often, these guys aren't the biggest problem and we've got 5 or 6 on the wage bill who are more useless.

Say what you like about both of them but Cammy was/is an exceptional defender for a mid table team. Under McCann, we changed our style of play to slow build up which didn't do his game any favours (I don't imagine many right backs would be that happy to have slow passing from the 'keeper result in being closed down by two players and having to play the ball on your weaker foot) and changed the way he'd play when he'd hit the byline with pace and just run (winning a few penalties that way). He used to struggle much more defensively but last season, he put in some great performances and was used to specifically neutralise some threats like Cadden etc.

I don't know what's gone on with him but I do think the poor form has been exaggerated a bit and he has actually put in a few really good performances since McIntyre come in. I wouldn't be throwing a contract at him but if he recovers to play a team role until the end of the season, I'd be happy enough  to offer something reasonable. We had the worst ever side assembled in the first half of the season at some times and he was under an unreal amount of pressure - we had very little to press up front or in midfield and I think the defence were really up against it. He's been resilient in his Dundee career so far so I think he'll come back and do OK tbh. If not, someone like Tommy Wright will see the good in him and be happy to take him.

Gowser is Gowser. Not much to say there but we've spent seasons getting frustrated at him before he's come back into the fold and saved us - I remember being delighted at him being dropped one season when we played Hearts at home and he come on at 2-0 down to inspire a semi-flukey 3-2 comeback! He's very dependent on his mobility for his style of play which is at risk of becoming a problem but I think he's still got stuff left in the tank. He had a real impact on the game at Hamilton last week when he come on and I still think we'll see him play a lot. Like Cammy to a certain extent, he's been playing in a team with no real attacking intent and players around him who can't really provide any pressure - Kenny Miller has provided a few big moments but we've seen Curran and Nelson provide some presence with their athleticism. I think the way the team is set up now, he'll look more effective. Gowser is one of these players who I think looks bad when things are falling apart as he doesn't shriek responsibility and hide like others. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by harry94

[RossDee01]

Two pretty strong lineups in the reserve match against United today.

[RossBFaeDundee]

3 hours ago, Crawford said:

I've got the day off. Who's heading to the wee derby? Free entry at Dens at 2.

I'd be there if I didn't have uni. Looks like it'll be a good one.

[Crawford]

1 hour ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

I'd be there if I didn't have uni. Looks like it'll be a good one.

It isn't. 4-0 half time.

[RossBFaeDundee]

16 minutes ago, Crawford said:

It isn't. 4-0 half time.

Tbf, I didn't expect them to put their first team on. Really desperate for this one apparently.

[Fifespud]

This summer, we let Holt go and then replaced him with someone totally untested. Ralph has come on to be very good but we relied on him alone which was a mistake when he took time and also was injured.
In Hartley's last season, he let Konrad go. Konrad wasn't spectacular but he was generally injury free and played around 70 games for us where he performed very well for 90% of them. We then let him go and spent the summer window scrambling around for another centre back before ending up with Kevin Gomis who was leaving a team at quite a high level and would have been on a fair bit of money. We got one or two good games out of Gomis but he was very erratic and I don't really think many people would argue he was better business than keeping Konrad.
Hartley also let Jim McAlister walk out the door and he was a valuable utility man who we never really replaced. The next few years, we often had gutless midfields and sometimes just had no one to fill certain gaps, leading to magical mystery formations etc. The same window, Letheren was replaced by David Mitchell (which certainly wasn't an improvement) and there are a few others I can think of similar.
Whatever you maybe think about specific players, it's not the worst thing in the world to have someone pretty bang average and keep them for longer. People talk about needing to progress etc but quite often, these guys aren't the biggest problem and we've got 5 or 6 on the wage bill who are more useless.
Say what you like about both of them but Cammy was/is an exceptional defender for a mid table team. Under McCann, we changed our style of play to slow build up which didn't do his game any favours (I don't imagine many right backs would be that happy to have slow passing from the 'keeper result in being closed down by two players and having to play the ball on your weaker foot) and changed the way he'd play when he'd hit the byline with pace and just run (winning a few penalties that way). He used to struggle much more defensively but last season, he put in some great performances and was used to specifically neutralise some threats like Cadden etc.
comeback! He's very dependent on his mobility for his style of play which is at risk of becoming a problem but I think he's still got stuff left in the tank. He had a real impact on the game at Hamilton last week when he come on and I still think we'll see him play a lot. Like Cammy to a certain extent, he's been playing in a team with no real attacking intent and players around him who can't really provide any pressure - Kenny Miller has ...........provided a few big moments but we've seen Curran and Nelson provide some presence with their athleticism. I think the way the team is set up now, he'll look more effective. Gowser is one of these players who I think looks bad when things are falling apart as he doesn't shriek responsibility and hide like others. 

I agree with most of what you say except I’m beginning to think Gowser’s pace has diminished to such an extent he cannot play at this level anymore.

[RossDee01]

7-0[emoji23]

[ah-dee]

if we let cammy go we will end up regretting it. the lad just needs some confidence back. i think McCann was probably the worst manager for a player like cammy. some players need an arm round the shoulder and some need a cunting. cammy appears to be the first type whereas McCann seems only able to give the later.

[RandomGuy.]

34 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Tbf, I didn't expect them to put their first team on. Really desperate for this one apparently.

Yet another example of why scrapping the u20 league for a reserve league isn't going to help youngsters develop.

They'll spend most of them on the bench behind senior players who need game time.

[Pull My Strings]

35 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Tbf, I didn't expect them to put their first team on. Really desperate for this one apparently.

Sorry RossB, but those are the guys we kept as reserves when we upgraded the first team last month. The really shit players have moved on. 

[harry94]

6 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

Sorry RossB, but those are the guys we kept as reserves when we upgraded the first team last month. The really shit players have moved on. 

You really should be winning that league comfortably (and any play off) if that's the sort of 11 you are fielding as second string.

[Pull My Strings]

Just now, harry94 said:

You really should be winning that league comfortably (and any play off) if that's the sort of 11 you are fielding as second string.

That's the plan. Fingers crossed.

[RossBFaeDundee]

6 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

Sorry RossB, but those are the guys we kept as reserves when we upgraded the first team last month. The really shit players have moved on. 

Depth is admittedly impressive, but the fact remains. You lot binned done players and brought in plenty. We binned and created a whole team with little backup. Therefore the reserves were always going to be overmatched.

[DigOutYourSoul]

If that's genuinely Uniteds reserve team they must be leaking money at an alarming rate given that half of that team are probably on top division wages. Big gamble on coming back up. 

Also wish someone had posted a wee screenshot of the odds before the game as I could have made a few £ this afternoon. 

[TheScarf]

County and United are basically on a muscle flexing exercise this season to see who can sign the better players and have the biggest squad.

[RossDee01]

That's the plan. Fingers crossed.

You signed Osman Sow to play in the reserves?

[RossDee01]

They’ll be dancing in the streets of Friockheim tonight.