All things Dundee FC

[The Master]

46 minutes ago, dburns said:

Interesting factoid here.

Our average attendance for this season just past, was actually higher than the 2015/16 season despite our abysmal performance, so despite Utd going down it actually didn't affect our overall attendances really (likely due to the return of Rangers), so if our performance had been better we may have even averaged higher than the 14/15 season, this is if you can trust the figures on Transfermarkt.

It's also safe to assume that with Hibs back next season, we will probably see another increase as they will have far larger traveling attendance than ICT did. So our budget before prize money is taken into account should barely have been affected despite what the papers seem to say.

Season	Competition	Matches	sold out	Spectators	Average
16/17	Scottish Premiership	19	0	122.200	6.432
15/16	Scottish Premiership	19	0	116.322	6.122
14/15	Scottish Premiership	22	0	145.045	6.593

Source:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/dundee-fc/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/511

While we gain Hibs (and should have two visits from them pre-split, along with Hearts) we will only see Celtic, (The) Rangers and Aberdeen once before the split. 

So if we finish bottom 6, I can't see our average attendance increasing. At best it'll remain the same. 

[Spikethedee]

53 minutes ago, The Master said:

While we gain Hibs (and should have two visits from them pre-split, along with Hearts) we will only see Celtic, (The) Rangers and Aberdeen once before the split. 

So if we finish bottom 6, I can't see our average attendance increasing. At best it'll remain the same. 

I'm not sure about this "we got x team twice before the split last season, so will only get them once next season" malarkey. Going by how incompetent the SPFL is about everything else, I'm sure there will be no rhyme or reason to the fixture schedule...

[DEEJANGO]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

Just pay Hartley ffs. The fact that we promised him some money when paying him off then stopped answering his calls is embarrassing.

It's £170,000 he wants that's a decent player on a decent wage for a couple of years. He wasn't payed off he was sacked. f**k him he had lost the plot in the end and was getting to big for his boots.

[harry94]

It's £170,000 he wants that's a decent player on a decent wage for a couple of years. He wasn't payed off he was sacked. f**k him he had lost the plot in the end and was getting to big for his boots.

The £170k is just the case he'll need to set for court and what he's got to sue for.

[Aufc]

It's £170,000 he wants that's a decent player on a decent wage for a couple of years. He wasn't payed off he was sacked. f**k him he had lost the plot in the end and was getting to big for his boots.

Now correct me if i am wrong but I am pretty sure since you sacked him, you need to pay up
His contract. So he is not really doing anything wrong?

[K.T]

Hopefully we tell him to f**k off and set a precedent. Managers shouldn't be paid handsomely for complete failure and incompetency.

[DensParkNumber1]

We should pay him whatever he was due in his remaining contract as we are legally binded to. 

[Ludo*1]

Yeah. Can't agree with people telling him to f**k off. He's the hardest working manager I've seen at Dens in my lifetime. Gave it his absolute all. Made some criminal mistakes this season, but that doesn't mean he deserves to get shafted. He's legally entitled to the money and we'd all do the same if we were in his position.

[Shadow Play]

I don't doubt Hartley put in the hours.  The trouble is just because your hard working doesn't mean your necessarily any good.  If you need heart surgery don't look for a hard working heart surgeon, look for a good one.

Whatever we end up paying it will be worth it.  There is absolutely no way we would have stayed up if Hartley had stayed.  Hartley must surely have known there was no real hope that he could keep us up.  He had no intention of resigning though as presumably he didn't want to walk away from the money.    Not saying there is anything wrong with that from an individual's point of view but I do think that makes it easier for the board to show Hartley no sentiment and drive as hard a bargain as they can for the good of the club.

 

[The Master]

2 hours ago, Spikethedee said:

I'm not sure about this "we got x team twice before the split last season, so will only get them once next season" malarkey. Going by how incompetent the SPFL is about everything else, I'm sure there will be no rhyme or reason to the fixture schedule...

It's the one thing that's remarkably consistent with the SPFL. If you play a team twice at home pre-split one season, you play them once at home the following season and vice versa. Promoted teams take on the status of relegated teams, which is why we ended up with (The) Rangers at Dens twice; they replaced United whom we only had at Dens once pre-split last season. 

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by The Master

[harry94]

There is absolutely no way we would have stayed up if Hartley had stayed.  Hartley must surely have known there was no real hope that he could keep us up.

I agree it was the right decision and boosted our prospects of staying up but this is total hyperbole. There was still quite a reasonable chance we would have stayed up and even with our form, we were still considered more likely than not to stay up by bookmakers. To us it felt like we had no hope at the time but the bigger picture painted things much differently.

I also think he would have had faith in himself and genuinely thought he'd be able to get a couple of results. Managers are generally stubborn guys and Hartley had come through many dreadful periods in the past and got his way out of them in cases where other managers haven't. He did have a knack of generally picking up that surprise win and getting a run of games together so he would have felt he could do it again.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Hopefully we tell him to f**k off and set a precedent. Managers shouldn't be paid handsomely for complete failure and incompetency.

Setting a precedent where clubs can empty employees from their contracts without paying their dues would be worse imo. Especially given our own history in this regard.

[Shadow Play]

16 minutes ago, harry94 said:

 

I agree it was the right decision and boosted our prospects of staying up but this is total hyperbole. There was still quite a reasonable chance we would have stayed up and even with our form, we were still considered more likely than not to stay up by bookmakers. To us it felt like we had no hope at the time but the bigger picture painted things much differently.

I also think he would have had faith in himself and genuinely thought he'd be able to get a couple of results. Managers are generally stubborn guys and Hartley had come through many dreadful periods in the past and got his way out of them in cases where other managers haven't. He did have a knack of generally picking up that surprise win and getting a run of games together so he would have felt he could do it again.

 

I'm only saying how I saw it and I could be totally wrong but it looked to me like too many players had given up on Hartley.  Hartley himself had said he had tried everything (he could think of).  His interview after the Hamilton match to me was one of a broken man.  It certainly didn't inspire me, so I'm not sure how it would have inspired the players to two wins and a draw.

[DEEJANGO]

42 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

I'm only saying how I saw it and I could be totally wrong but it looked to me like too many players had given up on Hartley.  Hartley himself had said he had tried everything (he could think of).  His interview after the Hamilton match to me was one of a broken man.  It certainly didn't inspire me, so I'm not sure how it would have inspired the players to two wins and a draw.

Spot on......he had lost it, lost the dressing room, the fans and his head, his tactics in his last few games in charge were mind boggling. 

Can't really understand any fan wanting money taken from the club and put in his pocket, he now has a new job working with Celtic so it's not as if he has to go sign on. Sour grapes IMO take it on the chin and move on and stop trying to be a greedy b*****d, why should we pay him the remainder of his contract when he won't be doing the job is absurd. 

[Fifespud]

He got sacked, it will be all down to his t' and c's. No doubt there will be some sort of compromise along the way. Anyone would push for as much as they could. Nothing to see here AFAIC.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

56 minutes ago, DEEJANGO said:

Spot on......he had lost it, lost the dressing room, the fans and his head, his tactics in his last few games in charge were mind boggling. 

Can't really understand any fan wanting money taken from the club and put in his pocket, he now has a new job working with Celtic so it's not as if he has to go sign on. Sour grapes IMO take it on the chin and move on and stop trying to be a greedy b*****d, why should we pay him the remainder of his contract when he won't be doing the job is absurd. 

He's no longer doing the job because Dundee canned him (which was the correct decision of course). However if we are actually legally due him money and successfully wriggle out of it in Court somehow, how the f**k does that make us an attractive prospect for anyone else? "Aye we'll give you a 3 year contract, but if we punt you, you're getting f**k all".

Also, to flip things around, imagine last season had gone great, we'd finished top 6 and Hearts came in, tapped him up and he left to manage them halfway through his contract. Would we be expecting compo? 

As Spuddie rightly says, a deal will be done behind closed doors and it'll be sorted. 

[Stellaboz]

The guy that took El Bak.

Insert heads gone from me here [emoji35]

[cilitbang]

I'm sure Jack Ross can't wait to replace McCann mid season after seeing this shambles 

[RandomGuy.]

Dundee fans having a minter here, trying to withhold money from an employee is staggeringly classless

[DEEJANGO]

10 hours ago, jupe1407 said:

He's no longer doing the job because Dundee canned him (which was the correct decision of course). However if we are actually legally due him money and successfully wriggle out of it in Court somehow, how the f**k does that make us an attractive prospect for anyone else? "Aye we'll give you a 3 year contract, but if we punt you, you're getting f**k all".

Also, to flip things around, imagine last season had gone great, we'd finished top 6 and Hearts came in, tapped him up and he left to manage them halfway through his contract. Would we be expecting compo? 

As Spuddie rightly says, a deal will be done behind closed doors and it'll be sorted. 

We don't have to be a 'attractive prospect' to anyone we have Sir Neil McCann.

 

Agree The Spudster is correct we will come to a agreement with Hartley, still doesn't take away from the fact he is a brassed neck wee p***k. If we hadn't sacked him I believe we would have been playing in the Championship this season.