Mr Hardy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Thanks HJ for clearing a few points up. My point about the team sheets/ match officials, just clear up my point here, I'm not saying they be responsible for suspended players etc. My thought was that a trialist is clearly marked as such on the team sheet, surely the match officials would know if trialists were allowed or not. Still think it would be simpler all round if the same rules applied to all our matches/competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I don't suppose any ineligible players were played in the League Cup Group by Spartans so that the 3rd placed team gets to go though.... hmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 My point about the team sheets/ match officials, just clear up my point here, I'm not saying they be responsible for suspended players etc. My thought was that a trialist is clearly marked as such on the team sheet, surely the match officials would know if trialists were allowed or not. Ah, I follow you. Yes I suppose in that sort of situation a referee could say "this is a cup tie - are you sure you are allowed to play triallists?", but it could only be advisory since (as I noted) there a couple of cups - also the groupstages of the Junior sectional cups I think - where triallists are not disallowed... However not all the cases will involve a club actually having marked a man up as 'TRIALLIST', it is just a byword for an unregistered man on the teamline, IIRC. Still think it would be simpler all round if the same rules applied to all our matches/competitions. You could totally abolish the 'everyone registered' and 'cup-tied' rules, maybe with SFA permission - but they are almost as old as football and do serve a purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ah, I follow you. Yes I suppose in that sort of situation a referee could say "this is a cup tie - are you sure you are allowed to play triallists?", but it could only be advisory since (as I noted) there a couple of cups - also the groupstages of the Junior sectional cups I think - where triallists are not disallowed... However not all the cases will involve a club actually having marked a man up as 'TRIALLIST', it is just a byword for an unregistered man on the teamline, IIRC. You could totally abolish the 'everyone registered' and 'cup-tied' rules, maybe with SFA permission - but they are almost as old as football and do serve a purpose. Due to privacy laws (I think), teamlines no longer have the addresses of signed players and therefore only trialists or unregistered players have their details on them, so a referee would immediately spot who the non signed players are. This has confused me as the statement from manager and chairman at spartans were a wee bit contradictory. Craig saying he didn't know you couldn't play trialists and sammy saying he didn't know the keeper hasn't signed. Was the issue then that spartans listed him as a signed player when he wasn't-rather than trying to play a trialist? Easy for the ref to spot and probably the opposition if it was the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pep Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Due to privacy laws (I think), teamlines no longer have the addresses of signed players and therefore only trialists or unregistered players have their details on them, so a referee would immediately spot who the non signed players are. This has confused me as the statement from manager and chairman at spartans were a wee bit contradictory. Craig saying he didn't know you couldn't play trialists and sammy saying he didn't know the keeper hasn't signed. Was the issue then that spartans listed him as a signed player when he wasn't-rather than trying to play a trialist? Easy for the ref to spot and probably the opposition if it was the latter. Surely, this is a good point, I have heard he was listed as a trialist on the teamlines so the opposition or ref must have seen this before the game started....If Preston officials did see this it would have been a tremendous show of sportsmanship if they have pointed this out prior to kick off or maybe they decided to stay quiet and see what happened..... Spartans made a mistake, and I still feel harshly dealt with considering the gk sub had no impact in game but rules are rules. One question why was an official from a non Lowland League team on the panel? What has he got to do with it? Especially with his well publicised dislike of Spartans???? Sammy statement on website is not great, Craig Graham did a great job admitting mistake however Sammy has soured this, especially comment on meaningless games..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magoo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Surely, this is a good point, I have heard he was listed as a trialist on the teamlines so the opposition or ref must have seen this before the game started....If Preston officials did see this it would have been a tremendous show of sportsmanship if they have pointed this out prior to kick off or maybe they decided to stay quiet and see what happened..... Spartans made a mistake, and I still feel harshly dealt with considering the gk sub had no impact in game but rules are rules. One question why was an official from a non Lowland League team on the panel? What has he got to do with it? Especially with his well publicised dislike of Spartans???? Sammy statement on website is not great, Craig Graham did a great job admitting mistake however Sammy has soured this, especially comment on meaningless games..... great.....now Preston are being questioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pep Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 great.....now Preston are being questioned Magoo not my intention to question or place blame. Merely making a comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I wouldn't go down the road of the holding the officials to blame for the mistake. They have enough to deal with making sure extra time is to be played or not. Dougie Samuel's bit on the Spartans website makes much more sense than the initial reports. If he believed that the goalie coach was actually signed and was not listed as a trialist then the mistake could have gone through undetected until the ref processed his copy. I know the ref sends on his copy to an address in Dumfries but what does he do with them after the game? Does he enter the players who played onto the ref equivalent of the SFA extranet? It was just that the mistake seemed to have been picked up very quickly. The guy in Dumfries would not have got them until Wednesday at the earliest due to the bank holiday. As far as the punishment goes, I believe that it is fair and sets the precedent for the future. No more differing scales of punishment for the same offence as what seems to happen in the Scottish Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Surely, this is a good point, I have heard he was listed as a trialist on the teamlines so the opposition or ref must have seen this before the game started....If Preston officials did see this it would have been a tremendous show of sportsmanship if they have pointed this out prior to kick off or maybe they decided to stay quiet and see what happened..... Spartans made a mistake, and I still feel harshly dealt with considering the gk sub had no impact in game but rules are rules. One question why was an official from a non Lowland League team on the panel? What has he got to do with it? Especially with his well publicised dislike of Spartans???? Sammy statement on website is not great, Craig Graham did a great job admitting mistake however Sammy has soured this, especially comment on meaningless games..... Can't comment on the panel as don't know it's make up. Craig's comments are admirable but based on the way the teamlines are presented I think that they're untrue. Can't think that no one noticed that a 'trialist' was listed- it's very obvious on the teamlines. The meaningless games and otherwise comments from sammy come over as petty and childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magoo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Why do u think you are harshly treated..The last few seasons it's become crystal clear at all levels off football that these team sheet errors lead to this result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pep Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Why do u think you are harshly treated..The last few seasons it's become crystal clear at all levels off football that these team sheet errors lead to this result Is it crystal clear...is the rule as clear cut as get team lines wrong immediate expulsion? Or are there alternatives to the punishment, a fine for example, maybe you can clarify because I do not know? If it is clear cut expulsion what was the point of a panel sitting ? Also who reports the teamline is incorrect that is a good question, the opposition , the ref, the association? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theref Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 taking into account he never actually PLAYED ,,,,seems a tad harsh to expel them ,,, or am I missing something here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Is it crystal clear...is the rule as clear cut as get team lines wrong immediate expulsion? Or are there alternatives to the punishment, a fine for example, maybe you can clarify because I do not know? If it is clear cut expulsion what was the point of a panel sitting ? Also who reports the teamline is incorrect that is a good question, the opposition , the ref, the association? That's what I asked 2 pages ago ? Still nae answer from anyone. So whos the chap that's not associated wi the LL that sat on the panel pep ? Would you have accepted and how much would a fine be llke ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magoo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The issue being that it wasn't just getting the team sheets wrong. The player is not signed so playing him is against the cup rules.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pep Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The issue being that it wasn't just getting the team sheets wrong. The player is not signed so playing him is against the cup rules.... Magoo, not hard to see where your bias lies however you back nothing up with fact.....perhaps you should go get a rule book and prove us all wrong.....No one is saying Spartans didn't break the rules I think the question is what is the procedure, is it automatic expulsion, please read the posts.... Broon, would rather not name names in case I get into trouble but he has been around EOS for a long long time.... Also not up to me about fine, I am just disappointed this has happened again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magoo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I will leave the rule book to others who might find that kind off thing intresting.as u were heading in the direction off it being only a team sheet error I was pointing out it was in fact more than that.im sure there are more than enough administration people within Spartans who are more knowledgeable about rules to answer your questions...on a forum level the fact that Spartans have had 4/5 off these issues over the years and suffered similar punishment that in itself should clear up the confusion you have at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pep Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I will leave the rule book to others who might find that kind off thing intresting.as u were heading in the direction off it being only a team sheet error I was pointing out it was in fact more than that.im sure there are more than enough administration people within Spartans who are more knowledgeable about rules to answer your questions...on a forum level the fact that Spartans have had 4/5 off these issues over the years and suffered similar punishment that in itself should clear up the confusion you have at the moment So you have an opinion that it is not too harsh but you don't care to find out why, I thought the whole purpose if the forum was to generate healthy debate?? Ok so I wrote time lines wrong, you wrote we played him.....whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magoo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Oh and pep no need to point out my bias. A read over old posts will make it more than crystal clear my feelings on Spartans.. Some would say there's a touch of karma involved after all the previous seasons chat about multiple teams, registration and suspension issues.....not me tho I'm an advocate for fair play that's all...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invisible man Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 End of the day rules are rules.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pep Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Oh and pep no need to point out my bias. A read over old posts will make it more than crystal clear my feelings on Spartans.. Some would say there's a touch of karma involved after all the previous seasons chat about multiple teams, registration and suspension issues.....not me tho I'm an advocate for fair play that's all...... I am all for fair play all I am saying is expulsion fair or not? karma.....I don't get that at all.....why would us getting thrown out of tournaments be karma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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