The Arbroath Thread

[Lichtie78]

Ecto. Just to clarify, you are moaning that Toshney is a poor signing because you saw him in one game two years ago. This also happened to be the opening game of the season, where players may not quite be up to scratch fitness-wise, and also consider he was playing in a new team. He was also a stand out for a good Raith side the year before. Please just settle down.

[Lichtie78]

Ecto. Just to clarify, you are moaning that Toshney is a poor signing because you saw him in one game two years ago. This also happened to be the opening game of the season, where players may not quite be up to scratch fitness-wise, and also consider he was playing in a new team. He was also a stand out for a good Raith side the year before. Please just settle down.

[SimonLichtie]

A rather odd game this evening in which we started off very poorly but came more into the game with the 2nd half being a good, even contest. We didn't deserve to take anything out of the game overall, but we did some nice stuff at points, there were some positive signs (although also some negatives....) and on the night the ref didn't seem to give us much and so often we lost out on breaks of the ball etc..... just one of those evenings really. A few of the goals we conceded seemed very soft with our midfield/ defence being strolled through although again a very unlucky deflection of Toshney for one of them and a lucky break of the ball for another. Our goals game from a nice cross from McKenna low in the 6 yard box finished well by Wallace and from a classic Kane intercepting a back pass and very nicely rounding the keeper. I'd say our best players were probably Jason Thomson and Ryan Wallace. Thomson defended and attacked well on the right, he did very well to beat his man on a few occasions and was solid in defence; he shapes himself very nicely as you'd expect a guy with his experience would and seems to have a decent amount of pace about him. Ryan Wallace held the ball well all game; did some very nice link up play and made a classic strikers run/ finish for the goal.

I find it slightly frustrating we didn't seem to play it as a serious competitive game. After Saturday's excellent result, we put ourselves in a position where we could have got through which would have been financially rather rewarding in terms of prize money, but we changed things about a lot this evening and didn't give ourselves a good chance of getting a result. Dick said in the paper that it's 'absolutely crazy part time teams are being asked to play competitive games at the start of July' but the last time I checked the 14th, 17th, 21st and 24th are dates that fall in the middle and end of the month.... We also chose to arrange 4 friendlies this month which was our choice, and while I agree it is a hard slog to play 4 competitive games in 10 days at any point of the season and you need to rotate at our level I do feel we could have started out with a team shaped up/ lined up a bit differently to give us a better chance of getting a result while also rotating things.

Playing Ricky Little as a left sided centre back and Danny Denholm having to play quite deep in a wing back role on that side was an absolute disaster and we ended up bringing Hammy on at half time. I presume Hammy was on the bench after he seemed to slightly pull something on Saturday but surprised he came on; would have thought he was either fit enough to play/ start or not fit enough to be risked at all. I also really don't like Mikey McKenna playing out wide and haven't since we first did it; I'd have thought Omar could have come in for some game time with McKenna in the middle/ up top or rested on the bench alongside Bobby Linn. I'm neither here nor there on Kane started; I guess after recent promising performances he deserved a chance and it also helped rotate/ rest players. He put in a fairly classic Kane performance, fairly average but grabbed a goal out of nothing. I do feel  although there is still huge room for improvement with his all round game, his hold up play/ knock downs/ body shape has definitely improved since last pre season.

Lewis Toshney will take time to get up to speed after his long lay off, which is obviously part of the reason he's signed for us for the next 6 months. It's like when Steven Doris comes back, both need game time to build themselves up again but in both cases I think it will be worthwhile for the longer term benefits. I feel Toshney can only be fully judged from September onwards once he's had the game time and built back up to where he should be.

Overall, very meh. Not a huge amount can be taken out of games until we've played 3/4 of the ones we're taking seriously in the league and we've got our final few signings in place.

Edited July 17, 2018 by SimonLichtie

[stan3600]

A rather odd game this evening in which we started off very poorly but came more into the game with the 2nd half being a good, even contest. We didn't deserve to take anything out of the game overall, but we did some nice stuff at points, there were some positive signs (although also some negatives....) and on the night the ref didn't seem to give us much and so often we lost out on breaks of the ball etc..... just one of those evenings really. A few of the goals we conceded seemed very soft with our midfield/ defence being strolled through although again a very unlucky deflection of Toshney for one of them and a lucky break of the ball for another. Our goals game from a nice cross from McKenna low in the 6 yard box finished well by Wallace and from a classic Kane intercepting a back pass and very nicely rounding the keeper. I'd say our best players were probably Jason Thomson and Ryan Wallace. Thomson defended and attacked well on the right, he did very well to beat his man on a few occasions and was solid in defence; he shapes himself very nicely as you'd expect a guy with his experience would and seems to have a decent amount of pace about him. Ryan Wallace held the ball well all game; did some very nice link up play and made a classic strikers run/ finish for the goal.
I find it slightly frustrating we didn't seem to play it as a serious competitive game. After Saturday's excellent result, we put ourselves in a position where we could have got through which would have been financially rather rewarding in terms of prize money, but we changed things about a lot this evening and didn't give ourselves a good chance of getting a result. Dick said in the paper that it's 'absolutely crazy part time teams are being asked to play competitive games at the start of July' but the last time I checked the 14th, 17th, 21st and 24th are dates that fall in the middle and end of the month.... We also chose to arrange 4 friendlies this month which was our choice, and while I agree it is a hard slog to play 4 competitive games in 10 days at any point of the season and you need to rotate at our level I do feel we could have started out with a team shaped up/ lined up a bit differently to give us a better chance of getting a result while also rotating things.
Playing Ricky Little as a left sided centre back and Danny Denholm having to play quite deep in a wing back role on that side was an absolute disaster and we ended up bringing Hammy on at half time. I presume Hammy was on the bench after he seemed to slightly pull something on Saturday but surprised he came on; would have thought he was either fit enough to play/ start or not fit enough to be risked at all. I also really don't like Mikey McKenna playing out wide and haven't since we first did it; I'd have thought Omar could have come in for some game time with McKenna in the middle/ up top or rested on the bench alongside Bobby Linn. I'm neither here nor there on Kane started; I guess after recent promising performances he deserved a chance and it also helped rotate/ rest players. He put in a fairly classic Kane performance, fairly average but grabbed a goal out of nothing. I do feel  although there is still huge room for improvement with his all round game, his hold up play/ knock downs/ body shape has definitely improved since last pre season.
Lewis Toshney will take time to get up to speed after his long lay off, which is obviously part of the reason he's signed for us for the next 6 months. It's like when Steven Doris comes back, both need game time to build themselves up again but in both cases I think it will be worthwhile for the longer term benefits. I feel Toshney can only be fully judged from September onwards once he's had the game time and built back up to where he should be.
Overall, very meh. Not a huge amount can be taken out of games until we've played 3/4 of the ones we're taking seriously in the league and we've got our final few signings in place.

How was Toshney?

[Smokerson]

Agree with most of simons summary, Dick really needs to change the record of greeting about the cup, it is what it is and it’s the same every year. Where i think he has a point is last night I felt the game was like a friendly, pretty poor crowd, both teams playing with the handbrake on, missing players due to holidays etc. Slightly frustrating we didn’t go for the win which would’ve left us in a strong position but maybe some players are not up to peak fitness to play 2 games in 4 days, Denholm for instance looked like he couldn’t run in the 2nd half. 

[Smokie_Bacon_crisps]

I'm not really sure Dick is alone in his thoughts of the early start of the Cup and how the smaller clubs are hindered by players on holidays and no trialists etc as Jim Goodwin pretty much came out with the exact same words in the press conference.  They have one other senior player who is ill, and Goodwin explained he was on the bench to make up numbers as they can't get any loan players in until August.

Anyway, a few pics from last night - https://www.flickr.com/photos/scotsman_in_hawaii/albums/72157693398120330

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Smokie_Bacon_crisps

[timlichtie]

3 hours ago, stan3600 said:

How was Toshney?

Thrown in the deep end there against a lively Alloa side with plenty of pace. Hard to judge, but the defence was much better in the second half when Hammy came on for him and we reverted to our normal set up.

[Big lichtie]

agree was thrown in at times looked miles of it but time will tell

[lichtie23]

Danny Denholm on this weeks Tell him he’s Pele Podcast. Should be a decent listen

[1320Lichtie]

Highlights up. Wonder if it’s a new camera the quality looks superb.

Some very sloppy goals to lose, Thomson looks like the only boy to come out the defence with pass marks. Don’t usually see ToB skinned so easily.

Whatley looked sharp, Hester with a really good goal, Wallace with a few good attempts and McKenna just everywhere as usual.

For Saturday I’d like to see us go as strong as we can, probably give Hill another game seeing as he’ll not get many but a back 4 and midfield of;

Thomson
Little
ToB
Hammy

Toshney
Whatley

With maybe

Linn
McKenna
Denholm

Wallace/Hester

Would like to see how that team got on. Think we only need another striker and another pacey creative winger similar to Bobby to complete the squad.

Probably try fill these positions in the loan market, Goodwin had mentioned that he couldn’t get any loans till August and I imagine that’ll be the case for us too.

All the good young players will be getting LC game time just now with their clubs. Someone like Callum Morrison or Keena from Hearts would be good to see, they 2 stick out from last season.

[stan3600]

Danny Denholm on this weeks Tell him he’s Pele Podcast. Should be a decent listen

It is a great listen. And he hasn’t even got to his Arbroath time yet.

[SimonLichtie]

Predictions for tomorrow:

Ryan Wallace will, as usual, hold the ball up well, and do some nice link up play as well as getting into the right positions inside the box. However, there will be some high balls that he doesn't jump for and instead shapes his body to try and control it/ win a free kick from the defender going through the back of him, and he will be berated for this and considered utter shite despite offering more to the team than at least several other players on the pitch.

Lewis Toshney will get game time, and some fans will judge how he will be for us for the next 6 months on what will only be his second game since a 9 month lay off. If he doesn't do everything right, he will be considering past it/ shite/ a haddy etc. The same fans will happily give Stevie Doris plenty of leeway and time to get up to speed when he comes back from a similar amount of time out injured.

Kane will do classic Kane stuff - run around a lot, badger defenders and maybe even score a goal. Despite offering less than Ryan Wallace in terms of overall game play people will be convinced he should start ahead of him in league games.

Darren Hill will get another start. On the hour mark he will attempt to get down to make a routine save resulting in a minor earthquake and the game being abandoned.

Edited July 20, 2018 by SimonLichtie

[RedLichtie86]

Predictions for tomorrow:
Ryan Wallace will, as usual, hold the ball up well, and do some nice link up play as well as getting into the right positions inside the box. However, there will be some high balls that he doesn't jump for and instead shapes his body to try and control it/ win a free kick from the defender going through the back of him, and he will be berated for this and considered utter shite despite offering more to the team than at least several other players on the pitch.
Lewis Toshney will get game time, and some fans will judge how he will be for us for the next 6 months on what will only be his second game since a 9 month lay off. If he doesn't do everything right, he will be considering past it/ shite/ a haddy etc. The same fans will happily give Stevie Doris plenty of leeway and time to get up to speed when he comes back from a similar amount of time out injured.
Kane will do classic Kane stuff - run around a lot, badger defenders and maybe even score a goal. Despite offering less than Ryan Wallace in terms of overall game play people will be convinced he should start ahead of him in league games.
Darren Hill will get another start. On the hour mark he will attempt to get down to make a routine save resulting in a minor earthquake and the game being abandoned.

Think you forgot to mention Ryan Wallace will see the high ball and either making no challenge whatsoever and stand there. Or looking to the defender and driving a head or shoulder into them and giving away a foul.

Not to mention he will get the slightest of contacts and throwing himself to the ground where the referee will ignore his pleas for a free-kick / penalty. And with the chance of getting booked in the process.

Hence why some fans dont like him.

[1320Lichtie]

Zzzz

Anyway hopefully we see Toshney tomorrow, have heard a few rumours that he might be badly injured again. Hopefully just a load of shite but supposed to have made it into the papers.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Zzzz

Anyway hopefully we see Toshney tomorrow, have heard a few rumours that he might be badly injured again. Hopefully just a load of shite but supposed to have made it into the papers.

Clocked a thing on Twitter saying he had returned to Dundee Utd after a recurrence of his knee injury. Wasn't anything official though so may be a load of shite.

[SimonLichtie]

1 minute ago, RedLichtie86 said:

Think you forgot to mention Ryan Wallace will see the high ball and either making no challenge whatsoever and stand there. Or looking to the defender and driving a head or shoulder into them and giving away a foul.

Not to mention he will get the slightest of contacts and throwing himself to the ground where the referee will ignore his pleas for a free-kick / penalty. And with the chance of getting booked in the process.

Hence why some fans dont like him.

Nope - I covered that - ' However, there will be some high balls that he doesn't jump for and instead shapes his body to try and control it/ win a free kick from the defender going through the back of him'.

Do we really think that Ryan Wallace sometimes see's a ball played up to him and decides 'nah, I'm not gonna go for that, I'll just stand here and let the defender win it no bother'?

If a striker is up against a centre half who 3/4 inches taller than him and better in the air - why would he spend 90 minutes jumping with him and challenging for the ball the same way he does? The defender will win almost every single battle. This is why, quite often, Wallace will shape himself to put the defender in a position where he has to go through him from the back - i.e. give a free kick to us, and if he doesn't Wallace will be able to control the ball on his chest/ foot due to his positioning. It's the clever thing to do, and ultimately it see's him win a higher percentage of long/ high balls than if he just jumped alongside a defender every time knowing he has very little chance of winning it due to the height difference.

It's a frustrating situation to see play out IMO - he either jumps with the defender and has less chance of winning it than shaping his body properly, but fans are happy because it looks like he's trying, or he does what 10 years experience in the game playing week in week out tells him to do and shapes himself knowing he has a better chance of getting something out of it but fans will feel he isn't putting the effort in or whatever.

In terms of the diving about/ crying to the ref etc. I totally agree - I have absolutely no time for that. Thankfully, after his first few months of petulance that seems to have changed and the last few months of the season/ start of this season he seems to be doing it a lot less and playing the game instead of falling about at the slightest bit of contact.

[1320Lichtie]

Nope - I covered that [emoji6] - ' However, there will be some high balls that he doesn't jump for and instead shapes his body to try and control it/ win a free kick from the defender going through the back of him'.
Do we really think that Ryan Wallace sometimes see's a ball played up to him and decides 'nah, I'm not gonna go for that, I'll just stand here and let the defender win it no bother'?
If a striker is up against a centre half who 3/4 inches taller than him and better in the air - why would he spend 90 minutes jumping with him and challenging for the ball the same way he does? The defender will win almost every single battle. This is why, quite often, Wallace will shape himself to put the defender in a position where he has to go through him from the back - i.e. give a free kick to us, and if he doesn't Wallace will be able to control the ball on his chest/ foot due to his positioning. It's the clever thing to do, and ultimately it see's him win a higher percentage of long/ high balls than if he just jumped alongside a defender every time knowing he has very little chance of winning it due to the height difference.
It's a frustrating situation to see play out IMO - he either jumps with the defender and has less chance of winning it than shaping his body properly, but fans are happy because it looks like he's trying, or he does what 10 years experience in the game playing week in week out tells him to do and shapes himself knowing he has a better chance of getting something out of it but fans will feel he isn't putting the effort in or whatever.
In terms of the diving about/ crying to the ref etc. I totally agree - I have absolutely no time for that. Thankfully, after his first few months of petulance that seems to have changed and the last few months of the season/ start of this season he seems to be doing it a lot less and playing the game instead of falling about at the slightest bit of contact.

[emoji1360]

[1320Lichtie]

Clocked a thing on Twitter saying he had returned to Dundee Utd after a recurrence of his knee injury. Wasn't anything official though so may be a load of shite.

Sadly I think it’s true. What ashame on the guy.

[lichtiekev]

Shame if Toshney is knackered, would of done a good job for us,  Maybe just have to take Scott Martin back instead.....

Any other whispers on signings and what about Finn Graham?? Probably more than covered in defence and goalkeeping positions but if Toshney is done we need another defensive midfielder, would like to see another winger brought in on loan perhaps and a striker. 

We 100% need another forward to compete with Wallace, Hester has had a good pre season but if we want to compete at top he isn’t the answer, The stick Wallace gets its so harsh, You seen the reaction of some Raith and Ayr fans when we got him and they both would of bitten your hand off for him,  he isn’t a target man, how ever he does hold the ball up well when played into feet and when given the chance he is a good finisher, We have been lucky last few seasons having Doris so think people are trying to compare Wallace to him, not so long ago we started a season with Coult and Grehan and they both have had less abuse than him, Let’s get behind him and give him a chance, telling him he is shite every week isn’t gonna make him better, 

 

[Hammerafc]

I rate Wallace as a player. The only thing from the games I've seen so far is that when he has been our main striker we haven't really looked like scoring goals and at the end of the day goals win games. I don't see why Wallace and Hester can't both play on occasion like the tail end of the Utd game or the Alloa match.