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Lichtie78

The Arbroath Thread

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Of course he can, I've already said his January signings were shite and he should've tried his best to keep Travis and Zubaidi. I also think he's doing terrible just now...

How do you know he didn't try his best to keep them?!

Although I see what you're saying overall (I hate when fickle football fans love someone one minute then seem to hate them the next) and I think on the surface Moore does deserve till the end of the season, there are a big bunch of questions to be asked, some of which we know the answers too. There is a lot more to this than our results on the pitch. What about training, tactics, signings, substitutions, man management, relationship with the fans etc?

Training – from what I have heard several times now (not just in the last few months, also when we were on our superb run in the first half of the season) training appears to be a lot less enjoyable than it was under previous management, with there being a lot less focus on the ball than before. This worries me, as I believe it is important that players enjoy training and look forward to it as opposed to just going through the motions. IF this is the case, it is a worry.

Tactics – This has been discussed previously. Unfortunately in the last few months Alan Moore has failed to demonstrate any sort of ability to change things tactically when the game isn’t going our way. Does anyone remember the horrible feeling under John McGlashan when as soon as we went a goal down the game was over? That feeling for me is well and truly back currently. In terms of substitutions, have we made one that has made a really positive impact and effect on the game in the last 3 or 4 months? When we were on a good run, there was no need to be able to make substitutions to change the game as most weeks we were walking it, whereas now we need to be changing things up and simply aren’t able to do so.

Signings – I certainly don’t like to criticise individual players, but it is fairly obvious that we fucked up in January and didn’t strengthen correctly. I don’t really get the whole ‘why didn’t we sign this type of player?’ etc stuff, as how do any of us know who was available and willing to sign for us? Just because it is obvious we need a certain type of player it doesn’t mean we simply pick one of the dozens available and willing to play for us. Only an idiot would think we didn’t try to sign an experienced centre back in January, however for whatever reason we weren’t able to bring one in. This is something that could be blamed on the management, but if the players aren’t available (and how do we know they are?) then I don’t think it helps continuously pointing this out after every single poor result.

However – I would pick on a comment made by Alan Moore around November/ December last year, where he stated he felt he inherited ‘half a good squad’ and has filled the other half himself with players. As has been pointed out, all of the players (aside from McCallum) who have impressed this season were Paul Sheerin’s signings. The signings that Allan Moore have for the most part not been up to the standard of player he inherited. It is one thing not being able to sign a player who fits what’s required (experienced centre half) due to lack of availability but when the vast majority of a managers signings are below the overall standard required you have to be asking some serious questions. Has a lot of our struggle to sign people been for the same reasons as always – location and reputation, or is it simply a case of Moore has signed players who he thought were up to it but haven’t proved they are yet? Certainly it looks like Alan Moore tried to sign various players in January, didn’t manage to get them, and with the threadbare squad we had he needed to get bodies in ASAP so sorted out a deal with Falkirk to take a couple of their promising kids. I think this would be a good place to put in a timely reminder that our youth team last season produced a variety of promising youngsters, none of which are currently playing for us. Also, as far as I am aware, when a team in the SPFL plays their own development players they get money for doing so, while if loaning other teams development players in we will be paying for the privilege.

Man Management – This is my biggest gripe with Alan Moore. Frankly, from what I have seen and heard his treatment of players is verging on disgraceful. We are a team low on confidence at the moment, and I don’t see any evidence of Allan Moore doing anything to lift the morale/ confidence in the dressing room and give the players some self belief. What I see is a manager berating players left, right and centre when they already feel pretty down about the situation we find ourselves in. You cannot shout confidence into a player. His abuse (and that’s what it was) of the players post Shire match was unbelievable, and as I said at the time the reaction he got was an awfully poor performance against Montrose 3 days later. Something the fans saw close up on Saturday was his continued ‘discussions’ with Kevin Nicol, which I’m sure weren’t helping Nicol’s game (certainly blaming him for other peoples f**k ups is just beyond ridiculous). I’m also pretty sure his management of Simon Murray since his move to Dundee Utd hasn’t been overly helpful, amongst many other things.

Relationship with the fans – what relationship? Alan Moore doesn’t react well to having things he does questioned in the slightest, a good few of our fans have found this out first hand.

I always felt last season, even when we were really in the shit, the players liked Paul Sheerin and were playing for him. Currently, I have a strong feeling that the team are playing for each other, not for the management. Whenever this is the case at a football club, it is extremely alarming. I could be wrong, but if I am right then things will only continue to go one way. IF I am right, and Moore continues into next season with us having shown no signs of improvement between now and the end of our current season, who out of our current squad is going to stick about? This along with the fact we have always struggled to get players in over the years under a variety of managers, including Moore, would mean we could be in a really serious situation in the near future.

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How do you know he didn't try his best to keep them?!

Although I see what you're saying overall (I hate when fickle football fans love someone one minute then seem to hate them the next) and I think on the surface Moore does deserve till the end of the season, there are a big bunch of questions to be asked, some of which we know the answers too. There is a lot more to this than our results on the pitch. What about training, tactics, signings, substitutions, man management, relationship with the fans etc?

Training – from what I have heard several times now (not just in the last few months, also when we were on our superb run in the first half of the season) training appears to be a lot less enjoyable than it was under previous management, with there being a lot less focus on the ball than before. This worries me, as I believe it is important that players enjoy training and look forward to it as opposed to just going through the motions. IF this is the case, it is a worry.

Tactics – This has been discussed previously. Unfortunately in the last few months Alan Moore has failed to demonstrate any sort of ability to change things tactically when the game isn’t going our way. Does anyone remember the horrible feeling under John McGlashan when as soon as we went a goal down the game was over? That feeling for me is well and truly back currently. In terms of substitutions, have we made one that has made a really positive impact and effect on the game in the last 3 or 4 months? When we were on a good run, there was no need to be able to make substitutions to change the game as most weeks we were walking it, whereas now we need to be changing things up and simply aren’t able to do so.

Signings – I certainly don’t like to criticise individual players, but it is fairly obvious that we fucked up in January and didn’t strengthen correctly. I don’t really get the whole ‘why didn’t we sign this type of player?’ etc stuff, as how do any of us know who was available and willing to sign for us? Just because it is obvious we need a certain type of player it doesn’t mean we simply pick one of the dozens available and willing to play for us. Only an idiot would think we didn’t try to sign an experienced centre back in January, however for whatever reason we weren’t able to bring one in. This is something that could be blamed on the management, but if the players aren’t available (and how do we know they are?) then I don’t think it helps continuously pointing this out after every single poor result.

However – I would pick on a comment made by Alan Moore around November/ December last year, where he stated he felt he inherited ‘half a good squad’ and has filled the other half himself with players. As has been pointed out, all of the players (aside from McCallum) who have impressed this season were Paul Sheerin’s signings. The signings that Allan Moore have for the most part not been up to the standard of player he inherited. It is one thing not being able to sign a player who fits what’s required (experienced centre half) due to lack of availability but when the vast majority of a managers signings are below the overall standard required you have to be asking some serious questions. Has a lot of our struggle to sign people been for the same reasons as always – location and reputation, or is it simply a case of Moore has signed players who he thought were up to it but haven’t proved they are yet? Certainly it looks like Alan Moore tried to sign various players in January, didn’t manage to get them, and with the threadbare squad we had he needed to get bodies in ASAP so sorted out a deal with Falkirk to take a couple of their promising kids. I think this would be a good place to put in a timely reminder that our youth team last season produced a variety of promising youngsters, none of which are currently playing for us. Also, as far as I am aware, when a team in the SPFL plays their own development players they get money for doing so, while if loaning other teams development players in we will be paying for the privilege.

Man Management – This is my biggest gripe with Alan Moore. Frankly, from what I have seen and heard his treatment of players is verging on disgraceful. We are a team low on confidence at the moment, and I don’t see any evidence of Allan Moore doing anything to lift the morale/ confidence in the dressing room and give the players some self belief. What I see is a manager berating players left, right and centre when they already feel pretty down about the situation we find ourselves in. You cannot shout confidence into a player. His abuse (and that’s what it was) of the players post Shire match was unbelievable, and as I said at the time the reaction he got was an awfully poor performance against Montrose 3 days later. Something the fans saw close up on Saturday was his continued ‘discussions’ with Kevin Nicol, which I’m sure weren’t helping Nicol’s game (certainly blaming him for other peoples f**k ups is just beyond ridiculous). I’m also pretty sure his management of Simon Murray since his move to Dundee Utd hasn’t been overly helpful, amongst many other things.

Relationship with the fans – what relationship? Alan Moore doesn’t react well to having things he does questioned in the slightest, a good few of our fans have found this out first hand.

I always felt last season, even when we were really in the shit, the players liked Paul Sheerin and were playing for him. Currently, I have a strong feeling that the team are playing for each other, not for the management. Whenever this is the case at a football club, it is extremely alarming. I could be wrong, but if I am right then things will only continue to go one way. IF I am right, and Moore continues into next season with us having shown no signs of improvement between now and the end of our current season, who out of our current squad is going to stick about? This along with the fact we have always struggled to get players in over the years under a variety of managers, including Moore, would mean we could be in a really serious situation in the near future.

Wow. You at work?

Green dot just for the sheer passion!

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Wow. You at work?

Green dot just for the sheer passion!

I am - but I felt it was far more important to get that off my chest ;) Not sure my manager would see it that way though....

I feel to 'outsiders' its important to understand the above as to why some Arbroath fans feel Allan Moore may be better leaving the club. On the face of it it looks pretty harsh to be of that opinion, and quite fickle considering 3 months ago he was doing a superb job (on the surface), however there is far more too it than our current run of form.

I think there may also be quite a few Arbroath fans who haven't taken into consideration quite a few of the points I've made, and I'd be interested to read others opinions and how they differ from mine on the things I've gone into detail on. I'd also like to point out I've not said my opinion on if Allan Moore should stay/ go/ how much time he should get etc etc, I'm just pointing out the realities of the situation we're currently in.

Edited by SimonLichtie

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I am - but I felt it was far more important to get that off my chest ;) Not sure my manager would see it that way though....

I feel to 'outsiders' its important to understand the above as to why some Arbroath fans feel Allan Moore may be better leaving the club. On the face of it it looks pretty harsh to be of that opinion, and quite fickle considering 3 months ago he was doing a superb job (on the surface), however there is far more too it than our current run of form.

I think there may also be quite a few Arbroath fans who haven't taken into consideration quite a few of the points I've made, and I'd be interested to read others opinions and how they differ from mine on the things I've gone into detail on. I'd also like to point out I've not said my opinion on if Allan Moore should stay/ go/ how much time he should get etc etc, I'm just pointing out the realities of the situation we're currently in.

Well you did state you think he deserved until the end of the season. :-P

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How has Carreiro been this time round?

Played very well on his return against Hibs in the cup but has done next to nothing since

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How has Carreiro been this time round?

Unless the boy improves dramatically in the close season he will end up being shipped back to Canada. Dont expect him to make the grade.

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Good observations and detailed analysis - and some strong evidence for a few of them. However I've not noted any lack of effort or application by the team though you can clearly see the heads go down when we fall behind.

Maybe it's simpler than that, at essence. Perhaps we overachieved first half, especially in the scoring stakes and when that dried up, virtually completely, along with the loss of our defence to injuries/return of El Zubaidi, adjustment and struggle was inevitable. The mid-term replacements were too inexperienced, but maybe that was what was available, and our bench has been really weak in recent weeks. Then the draining of confidence reinforces the decline. For some of this - especially the players brought in - the management bears prime responsibility but not all of it. I think the supporters have been remarkably tolerant though that is now starting to fray.

We seem to be a fairly conservative club, lacking strong business or community engagement or even lively ideas - even compared with some others in this league - so it might be the closing of the development/youth setup and the lack of financing options to buy in/pay players sets tight constraints on managers.

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Shades of Baikie's East Fife in 2006/07 here.

Mid-term collapses are not entirely unknown. Maybe it's an indication of Lichtie supporters modest expectations but very few fans took much for granted even when we were way out in front. Dreamland until 2nd January then reality bit

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Would be 1 win in 13 games if we lose on Saturday. Thats a third of the season. Should we just wait til we are out of the playoffs until we sack the manager? Or bring someone else in that actually has a plan B that doesnt involve hopeless long balls?

You are welcome to have Jimmy Nicholl.

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Who would you retain for next season:

Crawford

Nicoll

Linn

Whatley, but think he'll be away.

McWalter

Johnstone

Maybe:

Little

McBride

Hunter

Wilson

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Would keep Little and Hunter aswell.

Mabye keep Smith. Boy.may develop some more if given more regular game time.

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Dont think there is much difference between Junior/Higland/Lowland/League 2 players.

just have to see what the new manager says. Dont see Moore being at the club come next season.

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Would keep Little and Hunter aswell.

Mabye keep Smith. Boy.may develop some more if given more regular game time.

Only think Little will stay if moore goes

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