The Arbroath Thread

[keptie]

1 hour ago, lichtie23 said:

Shite again today. Fosu up top on his own is astonishing. I think the board need to have a long hard look at the management situation 

In other words you want them sacked?

[lichtie23]

Just now, keptie said:

In other words you want them sacked?

Is that an issue?

[keptie]

1 minute ago, lichtie23 said:

Is that an issue?

I'm prepared to give them more time. An away draw at Raith isn't a terrible result probably should've won. You want them sacked?

[lichtie23]

4 minutes ago, keptie said:

I'm prepared to give them more time. An away draw at Raith isn't a terrible result probably should've won. You want them sacked?

Today was awful again with nothing to look forward too. Just my opinion of course.

[Lichteeeeee]

7 minutes ago, keptie said:

I'm prepared to give them more time. An away draw at Raith isn't a terrible result probably should've won. You want them sacked?

Thats twice you have asked him if he wants them sacked? 

I want them sacked 

So you are prepared to give them more time, more time for what ?

Since last season, the tactics have been a joke, long balls to a lone man up top doesnt work, its clear it doesnt work, how many more games do we need to drop points before someone changes something up.

We have a decent budget, money in the bank, the squad in general is decent on paper ( I know your not that dumb to claim they turned bad overnight )

A blind man can tell you that this squad isnt as together as last season.

We play Mckenna, Linn, Corfe up top themselves, yes were short up top, but jesus christ, play a couple up top or try something else. 

Other players played in bizzare positions over the course of the season, this is all down to management choices, and of courses injuries and so on however, i think anyone will agree we are not getting out of this squad, what has been invested in it, in terms of wages, quality of player, the fact we can bring in the best part time players to play at Championship level, whilst paying a decent wage.

Next you will tell me that this management are getting the very best out of the squad we have, and its this magical striker that everyones waiting on in January that will solve all of the problems.

We threw it away last season, because these guys couldn't change formation, couldn't rotate the squad these guys are chumps, this is a poor league and we must do better. 

The blame lies firmly at the managers door, he chooses who plays where, he picks the players to sign the contracts, who else do we blame ?

If we all sat with a loser mentality like you, giving them more time, then we will see you in league one.

 

[Smokerson]

30 minutes ago, Lichteeeeee said:

Thats twice you have asked him if he wants them sacked? 

I want them sacked 

So you are prepared to give them more time, more time for what ?

Since last season, the tactics have been a joke, long balls to a lone man up top doesnt work, its clear it doesnt work, how many more games do we need to drop points before someone changes something up.

We have a decent budget, money in the bank, the squad in general is decent on paper ( I know your not that dumb to claim they turned bad overnight )

A blind man can tell you that this squad isnt as together as last season.

We play Mckenna, Linn, Corfe up top themselves, yes were short up top, but jesus christ, play a couple up top or try something else. 

Other players played in bizzare positions over the course of the season, this is all down to management choices, and of courses injuries and so on however, i think anyone will agree we are not getting out of this squad, what has been invested in it, in terms of wages, quality of player, the fact we can bring in the best part time players to play at Championship level, whilst paying a decent wage.

Next you will tell me that this management are getting the very best out of the squad we have, and its this magical striker that everyones waiting on in January that will solve all of the problems.

We threw it away last season, because these guys couldn't change formation, couldn't rotate the squad these guys are chumps, this is a poor league and we must do better. 

The blame lies firmly at the managers door, he chooses who plays where, he picks the players to sign the contracts, who else do we blame ?

If we all sat with a loser mentality like you, giving them more time, then we will see you in league one.

 

Whilst I agree with quite a lot of this, it’s the manager / management team that’s got us to this level. End of January is probably when I’ll make up my mind. 

[keptie]

23 minutes ago, Lichteeeeee said:

Thats twice you have asked him if he wants them sacked? 

I want them sacked 

So you are prepared to give them more time, more time for what ?

Since last season, the tactics have been a joke, long balls to a lone man up top doesnt work, its clear it doesnt work, how many more games do we need to drop points before someone changes something up.

We have a decent budget, money in the bank, the squad in general is decent on paper ( I know your not that dumb to claim they turned bad overnight )

A blind man can tell you that this squad isnt as together as last season.

We play Mckenna, Linn, Corfe up top themselves, yes were short up top, but jesus christ, play a couple up top or try something else. 

Other players played in bizzare positions over the course of the season, this is all down to management choices, and of courses injuries and so on however, i think anyone will agree we are not getting out of this squad, what has been invested in it, in terms of wages, quality of player, the fact we can bring in the best part time players to play at Championship level, whilst paying a decent wage.

Next you will tell me that this management are getting the very best out of the squad we have, and its this magical striker that everyones waiting on in January that will solve all of the problems.

We threw it away last season, because these guys couldn't change formation, couldn't rotate the squad these guys are chumps, this is a poor league and we must do better. 

The blame lies firmly at the managers door, he chooses who plays where, he picks the players to sign the contracts, who else do we blame ?

If we all sat with a loser mentality like you, giving them more time, then we will see you in league one.

 

Let me see now, we've had nothing but success with this management for years now and finally we've hit the inevitable blip and the toys coming hurtling out the pram from supporters who think supporting a team is always gonna be a bed of roses.  Like I say I'm prepared to give them time and see what happens in the January window. Criticising them for not getting into the top league is laughable, a bit like you.

[ExiledLichtie]

Regretfully, I don't see how the management turns things around.  Their mid season signings haven't exactly filled me with hope, the tactics have been dreadful, the football worse, and the manager's attitude to things has been appalling.

Do we believe that the current management will pull off a miracle?

[SimonLichtie]

36 minutes ago, Lichteeeeee said:

We play Mckenna, Linn, Corfe up top themselves, yes were short up top, but jesus christ, play a couple up top or try something else. 

 

I'd be very interested to know what game we played Corfe up top by himself  

We did however start with two strikers, one who a lot of people keep screaming to start, and found ourselves 4-0 down after half an hour or so, just last week.

[stan3600]

If this is what happens when we get an away draw against Raith Rovers I’d hate to see what is posted when we lose. 

[ExiledLichtie]

11 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

I'd be very interested to know what game we played Corfe up top by himself  

We did however start with two strikers, one who a lot of people keep screaming to start, and found ourselves 4-0 down after half an hour or so, just last week.

Do you think the management committed that act of folly last week because they genuinely believed that playing 2 strikers and a third player they usually play up front, paired with absolutely no midfield support was the way to win that game?  Or did they do it on purpose to make a point to the support?

[lichtie23]

27 minutes ago, Smokerson said:

Whilst I agree with quite a lot of this, it’s the manager / management team that’s got us to this level. End of January is probably when I’ll make up my mind. 

I don’t trust the management team to sign players to improve us in the window 

[parsforlife]

One of the interesting things about (the) campbell's long management history is that they are very good at getting a team going and building momentum,  but they don't have a great record at recovering things once its gone downhill under their management.   A few months in magaluf and his pick of PT clubs if he wants another job wouldn't be the worse career choice he could make.

[Tattie36]

Haven't read any posts after the game today but I’m sick and fucking tired of this “Turing a corner” bullshit. The simple fact is we have 4 points out of 18 (7 out of 21 if you want to be generous), and haven’t scored more than 1 goal in a league game since 17 September - that’s exactly 3 months, or 13 weeks to be precise.

I know for a fact that Cove are working 24/7 to stay in this league and will be investing and spending at least as much as us to stay here. Anyone who thinks we’re going to suddenly buy a player or two to turn this round is, I fear sadly, deluded.

[SimonLichtie]

9 hours ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Do you think the management committed that act of folly last week because they genuinely believed that playing 2 strikers and a third player they usually play up front, paired with absolutely no midfield support was the way to win that game?  Or did they do it on purpose to make a point to the support?

If they did it to prove a purpose, it certainly proved it didn't it? It's worth remembering that while we had several players on the park who were absolutely miles off it against Dunfermline, two of our midfield three were playing against Raith and were excellent in the second half. 

Them majority of teams we've played against this season play a midfield 5; they differ in the shape of them but ultimately they have 3 in the middle with two wider players. Sometimes teams play with a 10 supporting the 1 up top and some play with wider players supporting.... some both. However ultimately all of them have 3 players in the middle of the park and if you don't match them man for man in the middle you get absolutely battered and walked through. If we want to play 2 up top, we basically have to play with no defensive midfielder which for us right now is suicidal.

If we hadn't made changes against Dunfermline and given people a chance/ tried something different people would be moaning about never trying 2 up top and never giving some of our forward players a chance - this was the issue prior to the Dunfermline game. I think he proved himself equally right and wrong in the Dunfermline game... He's right to play a 4-5-1 and he's right when it comes to the lack of game time for some players but in the bigger picture he has got it massively wrong signing wise (and substitution wise in many games this season). Believe me, I am not happy with the amount of signings that haven't worked out and the joke subs/ tactical changes during games, but I can still see the things Dick is right on.

Yesterday - there were quite clearly more positives than negatives for me. We've all known for months that this is the team/ squad until January, so I don't understand why people expect us to do anything else than grind out points in games and nick things here and there. We were never going to just turn up one Saturday full of confidence, control a game from start to finish and start our promotion charge were we? Yesterday's performance was a good, hard fought one from a team quite clearly devoid of any sort of confidence. The thing about squad changes in January (assuming we're going to make 4/5/6 changes, because we obviously need to do so) is that it can change the entire feeling in the team as opposed to just a simple player out/ player in and their respective playing abilities. If our full backs are suddenly able to look up and see someone who they know can hold the ball up when the play it into them, or our midfield know when they pick the ball up and turn on it there's going to be a certain run made/ option given in a forward position, it makes a huge difference. Suddenly the ball's going forward, suddenly our full backs have confidence in the pass they play and the whole dynamic and feeling changes.

Ultimately, the bottom line here is that if Dick has a shit January and doesn't make the required changes then come the spring I'd be looking at things differently, but I'm still a couple of months off that at least.

[ExiledLichtie]

I don't think anyone here has been calling for playing 3 or even 2 up front.  We just wanted to see one up front.  It gets wearying, seeing a 4-6-0.  I note that yesterday, we actually played a 4-5-1, which is what everyone on here has been calling for!

[SimonLichtie]

23 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

I don't think anyone here has been calling for playing 3 or even 2 up front.  We just wanted to see one up front.  It gets wearying, seeing a 4-6-0.  I note that yesterday, we actually played a 4-5-1, which is what everyone on here has been calling for!

We haven't played a 4-6-0 in any game this season.... infact I cant remember ever seeing us play that formation under any manager  

[ExiledLichtie]

11 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

We haven't played a 4-6-0 in any game this season.... infact I cant remember ever seeing us play that formation under any manager  

What do you call the formation with a great glob of central midfielders, no wingers, and Bobby Linn drifting wide, deep, and being everywhere except up front?  

[SimonLichtie]

Just now, ExiledLichtie said:

What do you call the formation with a great glob of central midfielders, no wingers, and Bobby Linn drifting wide, deep, and being everywhere except up front?  

I've no idea - I've never seen us play that?

I've seen us try several variations of a 4-5-1, with different players played in different positions - Infact from memory that's what we've played every game this season in the league.

In a couple of league games (we've played 18, a couple is 2.....) we've played Bobby Linn up top with support from a number 10. More often we play a 4-5-1 with Mikey McKenna in the 10 and Bobby on the wing obviously, and we have also twice (again from memory) playing with a really narrow midfield in order to try and win the battle in there. On one of the occaisions we did that we won 2-0 away to Morton. The rest of the games - the vast majority of them, we've played a more conventional 4-5-1 with Bobby wide and someone else playing as a 10.

In what game do you think we played a 4-6-0?  Do you think we played a 4-6-0 against Fraserburgh for example?!

[1320Lichtie]

I thought yesterday was another game we would’ve won if we had someone who could put the ball in the net.
 

I wasn’t there (had already driven to Edinburgh airport at 4am and by the time I got home and woke up I couldn’t bring myself to leave the house) but I managed to watch it and thought that there were plenty of good performances. 
 

Hoti looked very tidy. Back 4 all solid. Was also very good seeing Hilson and Scotty Stewart back on the park. Fosu also took us up the park very well several times in the second half and it baffles me how Dick has played him holding midfield and out wide so often this season he seems to do well every time he is put up top. I’d keep him around. 
 

We need a striker very badly and also some attacking options too. Our team is just not too far off it. We are just not too far behind other sides in this league. Fair play to the boys for working their baws off again they all put in a shift I just had that feeling that we would not score yesterday and it must be the same for them on the park, it’s frustrating. Some good opportunities in the second half, Oakley in particular being afraid of having a shot at goal yesterday when in a great position. 
 

Keep in touch with Cove through January and see what Dick can pull out of the bag and I don’t see why we can’t pull ourselves back.

Edited December 18, 2022 by 1320Lichtie