The Arbroath Thread

[clashcityrocker]

5 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

you would think there would be more interest.

Very few Aberdeen fans are going to show much good will to an Aberdeen based team who play in the colour blue and have the word Rangers in their name - that won't rest well with many Aberdeen fans.

[Tattie36]

1 hour ago, clashcityrocker said:

Very few Aberdeen fans are going to show much good will to an Aberdeen based team who play in the colour blue and have the word Rangers in their name - that won't rest well with many Aberdeen fans.

Oh yes I know that well and have said as much several times.

The biggest mistake they made was not changing their name/image/branding when they came into the league.

Rangers in the name, blue kit, lion badge all like a red rag to a bull to the vast majority of Aberdonians.

For those reasons, and many others, they will never prise fans away from Pittodrie. I’m talking more about the very casual, occasional football fan, perhaps incomers to the city, and there are thousands of them, without the generational or emotional connection to the Dons.

This was all kind of my original point - Cove’s crowds are normally artificially higher than they would be due to the novelty and Aberdeen fans going along for something different when the Dons are away from home. Proved very starkly on Saturday with Aberdeen also at home.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Tattie36

[TheScarf]

We played them in the LC group stage last year in midweek and there was a lot of folk wearing Aberdeen hats/scarves/fleeces.  No chance they're there if the Dons are at home on a Saturday too.  They'll get their usual HL level crowds.  Same with Banks O'Dee if they ever get promoted.

[CoveRangers1922]

12 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

Oh yes I know that well and have said as much several times.

The biggest mistake they made was not changing their name/image/branding when they came into the league.

Rangers in the name, blue kit, lion badge all like a red rag to a bull to the vast majority of Aberdonians.

For those reasons, and many others, they will never prise fans away from Pittodrie. I’m talking more about the very casual, occasional football fan, perhaps incomers to the city, and there are thousands of them, without the generational or emotional connection to the Dons.

This was all kind of my original point - Cove’s crowds are normally artificially higher than they would be due to the novelty and Aberdeen fans going along for something different when the Dons are away from home. Proved very starkly on Saturday with Aberdeen also at home.

FC Cove would have even have been a better choice than keeping the Rangers part in our name and that's saying something! 

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

We played them in the LC group stage last year in midweek and there was a lot of folk wearing Aberdeen hats/scarves/fleeces.  No chance they're there if the Dons are at home on a Saturday too.  They'll get their usual HL level crowds.  Same with Banks O'Dee if they ever get promoted.

That used to mildly annoy me but it doesn't that much anymore. In reality it's going to take many years to grow a substantial fan base; we were HL in 2019, just 3 years ago.

Aberdeen fans, whoever they are, taking an interest and coming to Balmoral is progression and the first steps to gaining more interest, spreading the word locally and who knows turning some allegiances (in time). At the least, it's revenue for the club.

We're more in the local media now, whether that's the paper, podcasts or soon to be televised games but the club need to do more too. Difficult to manage the rise up the leagues in a short space of time and do everything off the field too when PT. Arbroath have juggled it admirably over the last few years.

It's a massive task as the Dons have ruled the City for countless decades as the only SPFL side and it's ingrained, almost, to support Aberdeen if you live locally here. If say Clach ever got promoted to L2, it would be the same. Smaller city but they would struggle to grow the fan base even if they showed signs of promise.

Also the Dons have huge finances, spent millions on a training complex at Westhill, spent close to 2 million in the summer transfer window and could be away to build a state of the art stadium at the beach in excess of 50 million. David and Goliath in that respect.

I don't have the answers on how we grow the fan base. 

[TheScarf]

16 minutes ago, CoveRangers1922 said:

FC Cove would have even have been a better choice than keeping the Rangers part in our name and that's saying something! 

That used to mildly annoy me but it doesn't that much anymore. In reality it's going to take many years to grow a substantial fan base; we were HL in 2019, just 3 years ago.

Aberdeen fans, whoever they are, taking an interest and coming to Balmoral is progression and the first steps to gaining more interest, spreading the word locally and who knows turning some allegiances (in time). At the least, it's revenue for the club.

We're more in the local media now, whether that's the paper, podcasts or soon to be televised games but the club need to do more too. Difficult to manage the rise up the leagues in a short space of time and do everything off the field too when PT. Arbroath have juggled it admirably over the last few years.

It's a massive task as the Dons have ruled the City for countless decades as the only SPFL side and it's ingrained, almost, to support Aberdeen if you live locally here. If say Clach ever got promoted to L2, it would be the same. Smaller city but they would struggle to grow the fan base even if they showed signs of promise.

Also the Dons have huge finances, spent millions on a training complex at Westhill, spent close to 2 million in the summer transfer window and could be away to build a state of the art stadium at the beach in excess of 50 million. David and Goliath in that respect.

I don't have the answers on how we grow the fan base. 

It wasn't a dig at Cove btw, it's just the way it is.  Like you say, if you're brought up in Aberdeen and are into football, the chances are you're going to support Aberdeen as that's the way it was for over 100 years what with them being the only league side in the city.  The only way, IMO, Cove will grow their fan base is if they get promoted to the Premiership.  The draw of playing the country's big sides every week will see more STs bought and if you consolidate, those ST numbers will stay or even grow.

If you stay at tier 2 or drop lower there won't be an increase I don't think. It's the same with any new club into the league. The Caley don't get more fans for that very reason.  There's no draw playing in the Championship.  There's no teams who put extra bums on seats.  You need to be in the Premiership.

[clashcityrocker]

Thankfully there is no thread yet for the Arbroath Vs Dundee match this coming Sat - I fear we will get a pumping as we can't buy a win at the moment.

Hilson has always given 100% and will put in a shift, but playing him isolated upfront and then making 5 subs at the same time needs to stop with immediate effect.

It's going to be a long winter of football with not much to celebrate based on recent performances.

 

[CoveRangers1922]

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

It wasn't a dig at Cove btw, it's just the way it is.  Like you say, if you're brought up in Aberdeen and are into football, the chances are you're going to support Aberdeen as that's the way it was for over 100 years what with them being the only league side in the city.  The only way, IMO, Cove will grow their fan base is if they get promoted to the Premiership.  The draw of playing the country's big sides every week will see more STs bought and if you consolidate, those ST numbers will stay or even grow.

If you stay at tier 2 or drop lower there won't be an increase I don't think. It's the same with any new club into the league. The Caley don't get more fans for that very reason.  There's no draw playing in the Championship.  There's no teams who put extra bums on seats.  You need to be in the Premiership.

Exactly and I know you guys aren't just taking direct aim at Cove. It's how it will be for any club that enters the SPFL through the pyramid. For any club even if they are established it's hard to attract new fans.

Arbroath getting plaudits, and rightly so, for what they are doing in that community and for growing their attendances and season ticket sales. Takes success on the pitch clearly and a lot of unseen effort in the background to make it happen. 

[Lichtie78]

Very similar vibes to the behind closed doors season in that our complete lack of goal threat makes us so easy to play against. The worrying thing is that season was only 27 games, so we had a round less of fixtures before the January window opened and managed to stay in touch. Not got that luxury this time round unfortunately, we're going to need to get a few results from somewhere, somehow and hope that we can have a similar January window to that season where we signed Jack Hamilton, Nicky Low & Ben Williamson.

[lichtie23]

15 minutes ago, Lichtie78 said:

Very similar vibes to the behind closed doors season in that our complete lack of goal threat makes us so easy to play against. The worrying thing is that season was only 27 games, so we had a round less of fixtures before the January window opened and managed to stay in touch. Not got that luxury this time round unfortunately, we're going to need to get a few results from somewhere, somehow and hope that we can have a similar January window to that season where we signed Jack Hamilton, Nicky Low & Ben Williamson.

But we’ve got Isiaka!

[lichtie23]

Dunfermline or the Celtic kids at home in the challenge cup

[1320Lichtie]

3 hours ago, clashcityrocker said:

Thankfully there is no thread yet for the Arbroath Vs Dundee match this coming Sat - I fear we will get a pumping as we can't buy a win at the moment.

Hilson has always given 100% and will put in a shift, but playing him isolated upfront and then making 5 subs at the same time needs to stop with immediate effect.

It's going to be a long winter of football with not much to celebrate based on recent performances.

 

Our attacking options are nothing short of an absolute disgrace for this level I think it’s absolutely wild at how bad recruitments been in attacking wide areas and upfront. 
 

I will be at Gayfield every game this season and will get to as many away games as I can but I am not even taking any enjoyment from most games this season it is painful viewing. DC has given us absolutely f**k all to be excited about which is so frustrating in a season where the buy in to the club from the town has been massive. 2000 most home games and even getting 1200 for a diddy cup game v EF and this is the dross we are serving up. Typical 

 

Allan is and was an exciting signing but we haven’t half chucked him into a mess. Bobby once again seems to be the man we are relying on heavily again for goals and creating chances which is ridiculous considering he’s a 37 year old winger, even then that’s if DC doesn’t find some wild reason to sub him or play a left back there. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by 1320Lichtie

[Tattie36]

3 hours ago, clashcityrocker said:

Thankfully there is no thread yet for the Arbroath Vs Dundee match this coming Sat - I fear we will get a pumping as we can't buy a win at the moment.

Hilson has always given 100% and will put in a shift, but playing him isolated upfront and then making 5 subs at the same time needs to stop with immediate effect.

It's going to be a long winter of football with not much to celebrate based on recent performances.

 

While I totally agree with your sentiment, to say we can’t buy a win at the moment is a bit off. Before Saturday we’d actually won two in a row.

[1320Lichtie]

1 minute ago, Tattie36 said:

While I totally agree with your sentiment, to say we can’t buy a win at the moment is a bit off. Before Saturday we’d actually won two in a row.

Don’t think it’s fair to count East Fife to be honest and the Morton game seems like a massive anomaly both in performance and result I stupidly allowed it to get my hopes up 

[Tattie36]

29 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Our attacking options are nothing short of an absolute disgrace for this level I think it’s absolutely wild at how bad recruitments been in attacking wide areas and upfront. 
 

I will be at Gayfield every game this season and will get to as many away games as I can but I am not even taking any enjoyment from most games this season it is painful viewing. DC has given us absolutely f**k all to be excited about which is so frustrating in a season where the buy in to the club from the town has been massive. 2000 most home games and even getting 1200 for a diddy cup game v EF and this is the dross we are serving up. Typical 

 

Allan is and was an exciting signing but we haven’t half chucked him into a mess. Bobby once again seems to be the man we are relying on heavily again for goals and creating chances which is ridiculous considering he’s a 37 year old winger, even then that’s if DC doesn’t find some wild reason to sub him or play a left back there. 

There’s something very wrong with the team at the moment. On paper, I would say we have a stronger squad than this time last season, aside from up front obviously, but it’s not clicking anywhere on the pitch.

Gaston has had a few uncharacteristic flaps and errors. The once rock solid defence looks panicky and is leaking like a sieve. Midfield is second best and being bullied in every game meaning we have little quality possession to feed our powder puff strike force. It feels to me like the players don’t really know what their meant to be doing.

I fear last season has gone to Dick’s head and instead of concentrating on his managerial strengths - man management and motivation - and aiming for mid table safety, he suddenly thinks he’s a tactical genius and is now trying to fit square pegs in to round holes and doing daft sh1t like 5 subs at once.

[1320Lichtie]

7 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

There’s something very wrong with the team at the moment. On paper, I would say we have a stronger squad than this time last season, aside from up front obviously, but it’s not clicking anywhere on the pitch.

Gaston has had a few uncharacteristic flaps and errors. The once rock solid defence looks panicky and is leaking like a sieve. Midfield is second best and being bullied in every game meaning we have little quality possession to feed our powder puff strike force. It feels to me like the players don’t really know what their meant to be doing.

I fear last season has gone to Dick’s head and instead of concentrating on his managerial strengths - man management and motivation - and aiming for mid table safety, he suddenly thinks he’s a tactical genius and is now trying to fit square pegs in to round holes and doing daft sh1t like 5 subs at once.

Yeah I kind of agree with that last part. Strange decisions and he also maybe felt like he could gamble a lot more with his signings thinking we had a strong enough squad to cope regardless of whether he got them right or wrong cause we were so good last season. Instead it’s been a big swing and a miss.
 

I feel like this summer letting the leash off him too in the transfer market and us now being able to sign guys from outwith the country now we have accommodation in the town for them to stay in he’s massively took his eye off the ball and been on a wild goose chase trying to unearth these hidden diamonds. I feel like it was a positive and great move from the club securing places players could stay in in the town but I feel like our (well Dicks) use of them has been terrible 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by 1320Lichtie

[Smokerson]

It was always going to be tough to replicate what we did last season. The team has broken up and it takes time to recover from that, certain players need a bit time to settle in, however there is no hiding that some of the signings so far don't look up to it. We only had three players who started the killie decider who started on Saturday, so its been a huge turnover. 

Factor in injuries to O'Brien and Mckenna (two of the best players in the league last season) there are mitigating reasons to our poor form. 

Strategy must be to hang in there, pick a up points and bring in two or three in January which we have been good at in the past. 4 games at home in October so need to take advantage of them.

[Tattie36]

9 minutes ago, Smokerson said:

… Strategy must be to hang in there, pick a up points and bring in two or three in January which we have been good at in the past. 4 games at home in October so need to take advantage of them.

I’m really starting to fear that you may be right. That’s an incredibly risky approach though and I’m not confident it has much of a chance of working.

It relies on picking up decent options in January - we just tried (and spectacularly failed) for months to bring in strikers to a team on a high, with a great profile and a good chance of a top half finish. There will be fewer players available as many players will be on season long loans at other clubs and who wants to join a team possibly cut adrift at the foot of the table? We were very lucky two seasons ago in getting Jack Hamilton who just clicked with our style of play, chances of that happening again - pretty slim.

I’d like to see us start with Isiaka and Shanks up front on Saturday to see if that might give us a bit more presence. I fear it’ll be left to poor Hilson though to buzz about up there on his own again. Dundee’s centre half’s will have the cigars out, just like Cove’s did.

[1320Lichtie]

3 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

I’m really starting to fear that you may be right. That’s an incredibly risky approach though and I’m not confident it has much of a chance of working.

It relies on picking up decent options in January - we just tried (and spectacularly failed) for months to bring in strikers to a team on a high, with a great profile and a good chance of a top half finish. There will be fewer players available as many players will be on season long loans at other clubs and who wants to join a team possibly cut adrift at the foot of the table? We were very lucky two seasons ago in getting Jack Hamilton who just clicked with our style of play, chances of that happening again - pretty slim.

I’d like to see us start with Isiaka and Shanks up front on Saturday to see if that might give us a bit more presence. I fear it’ll be left to poor Hilson though to buzz about up there on his own again. Dundee’s centre half’s will have the cigars out, just like Cove’s did.

I really don’t think Shanks is up to starting or making any kind of meaningful impact at this level he’s fine but it’s a massive jump up from the Highland League and he’s a young lad.
 

It’s not just him though I feel like Shanks, Fosu, Corfe, Paterson and Isiaka not up to the required level. You can add in Hilson to that too even though he has it within him. That’s 6 players out of a squad of 20 or whatever, all of them taking up place in attacking areas of the park. This is the huge downfall of the squad that’s been built.
 

It was never just about finding a Jack Hamilton or a Dowds or a Nouble just solid options who had played in the Scottish Championship or League 1. It’s the overall level of the above 

 

If you listed our defenders and midfield players it would look good. 
 

Gaston / Gill

 

Hamilton / Little / ToB / Oakley / Hancock - thats decent 

 

Gold / Stewart / McKenna / Tait / Allan / Jacobs / Bitsindou - that’s also decent 

 

Linn / Hilson / Fosu / Corfe / Isiaka/ Shanks / Paterson - the guys who play in areas that need to make a difference in the final third of the park……. Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

[Tattie36]

29 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

I really don’t think Shanks is up to starting or making any kind of meaningful impact at this level he’s fine but it’s a massive jump up from the Highland League and he’s a young lad.
 

It’s not just him though I feel like Shanks, Fosu, Corfe, Paterson and Isiaka not up to the required level. You can add in Hilson to that too even though he has it within him. That’s 6 players out of a squad of 20 or whatever, all of them taking up place in attacking areas of the park. This is the huge downfall of the squad that’s been built.
 

It was never just about finding a Jack Hamilton or a Dowds or a Nouble just solid options who had played in the Scottish Championship or League 1. It’s the overall level of the above 

 

If you listed our defenders and midfield players it would look good. 
 

Gaston / Gill

 

Hamilton / Little / ToB / Oakley / Hancock - thats decent 

 

Gold / Stewart / McKenna / Tait / Allan / Jacobs / Bitsindou - that’s also decent 

 

Linn / Hilson / Fosu / Corfe / Isiaka/ Shanks / Paterson - the guys who play in areas that need to make a difference in the final third of the park……. Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

As I said earlier, on paper I think we have a stronger squad than this time last season in all areas… apart from up front.

But it’s deeper than that. The entire team is underperforming all over the pitch not just in attack.

We could have Erling Haaland playing up front but he won’t score without quality service or possession in midfield. I know that’s ridiculous as he’d probably score a double hat-trick in every game at this level, even without service, but you get my point.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Tattie36

[1320Lichtie]

18 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

As I said earlier, on paper I think we have a stronger squad than this time last season in all areas… apart from up front.

But it’s deeper than that. The entire team is underperforming all over the pitch not just in attack.

We could have Erling Haaland playing up front but he won’t score without quality service or possession in midfield. I know that’s ridiculous as he’d probably score a double hat-trick in every game at this level, even without service, but you get my point.

But that’s the main weakness in the team, said it about Jacobs when he was getting slagged rotten and it’s probably why Thomson has looked so off it and why ToB has had 2 red cards and why Scott Allan was getting called an imposter at the weekend and why so many other players at the back and in midfield have looked poor if you are playing in a team that cannot get up the park and create chances in any meaningful way the other team just keeps coming at you over and over. Then when we go a goal down it must be demoralising, when it happened Saturday I knew we were beat or getting a draw at best after the first and when the second went in would’ve been as well going home
 

Never mind goals but how many chances have we created in 8 games? For whatever reason we seemed to create a few at Dens and a few in Greenock but in the other games I genuinely cannot think of anything from open play, McKenna and Shanks against Inverness is the only thing coming to mind. That attacking 6 would struggle to do anything in L1 never mind the Championship it’s fkn hopeless from Dick it really is 

 

Stewart, Hamilton, Little and Gaston my only pass marks so far this year 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by 1320Lichtie