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Americans and their gun culture


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So basically what you're saying is, America have got it right regarding gun control and we have it wrong.

Very good.

If you feel the need to have a weapon designed to kill for "self defence" Id recommend you try living some place else.

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Even if someone has a weapon designed to kill someone (i.e. you)?

And has that ever happened to you in this country?

I remember reading a statistic that in the USA, if you have a firearm in your house, you or your family are SEVEN times more likely to die of a gunshot wound than if you don't have one.

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First off I'd like to apologize for getting so heated in my original post, I tend to forget other people mostly aren't that interested in subjects I'm talking about and haven't researched it as in-depth, so I tend to get a bit dogmatic. That just doesn't help at all, it gets people's backs up and everybody just starts trying to put each other down instead of arguing a point.


Right, first things first. The "higher gun deaths" statistics in the US. I really thought that would be strikingly obvious but then I remembered, many people probably haven't taken the time just to look at a simple list of gun ownership statistics in various countries. So for example when the US has a rate of 90.0 guns per 100 people (apparently upon latest check, although that does seem awfully high, I guess many people have multiple guns though so it probably does check out) compared to the UK's rate of between 5.0 and 6.0 per 100 people, you can probably understand why they naturally have a far higher rate of gun related deaths.

The US would have a massively higher rate of vehicular death and homicide than some impoverished African country for instance, for similar reasons.



I'm not saying the US system is right, every system has its advantages and disadvantages. However our stance on gun control being so utterly unchallenged in our mainstream media (I WONDER WHY, they're so "impartial" and "well-meaning" with everything else) you can begin to understand why people here are a bit confused about near total disarmament being a solely or mainly positive thing.

Enrico, I don't necessarily NEED a firearm to defend myself, assuming my robber/attacker is noble enough to come at me using only his hands and feet. However in my experience most attackers tend to go at people with weapons, or even multiple assailants. Which is when the odds really begin stacking up against you. A gun's purpose is to fire small projectiles at high velocity, as a knife's purpose it to cut/pierce things and a bat's purpose it to strike things. What a person uses these objects for is ENTIRELY ON THEM, not the objects themselves. The "guns are only designed to kill" nonsense is completely fallacious.


The tyranny argument is not outdated or irrelevant. People seem to still assume today that because (to the best of their knowledge) governments in the developed world have been largely benevolent for the last few decades that this will always remain the case. History has repeatedly shown us how stable regimes can collapse in an extremely short space of time and descend into tyrannical authoritarianism.

In fact many would argue we're already laying the foundations for a full blown police state in the UK right now, some more would even argue we're already there.

As for armed citizens being incapable of resisting the might of the US armed forces.. Well again history has shown us what a determined, entrenched population can achieve with very basic weapons against overwhelming military might. They might well be facing a mountain if it ever came down to a revolution in the US, but people in the UK would be facing an ascent into space, with no system of propulsion.

And the UK government absolutely knows it..





This troll clown may be thinking of Derek Bird, but he was in 2010.

Sorry, I was thinking of that indeed. 2010 then.

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And has that ever happened to you in this country?

I remember reading a statistic that in the USA, if you have a firearm in your house, you or your family are SEVEN times more likely to die of a gunshot wound than if you don't have one.

Yep. I was threatened with a knife around three times before I'd even hit 18 here in Scotland. Here in the UK you need to do whatever they say and pray they don't decide to stab you in a vital organ anyway, assuming you're law abiding or don't happen to be a great fighter who loves to gamble with his life. When I lived in the US someone attempted to rob me twice and carjack me, EVERY time I pulled out my gun and they ran. I was absolutely unharmed, and I got to keep all my valuables that I worked pretty damn hard for.

Each time for several pounds at the hands of what I presume were drug addicts (in the UK).

Oh but it wasn't the people's fault, right Enrico? It was the knife, or the drugs, or their upbringing, or the climate..

That's quite true though, Cardinal. Do you know if you live in a house with a car you're also 100% more likely to run over your child than if you live in a house without a car?

Always treat statistics and those quoting them with scrutiny. They can be cut anyway you like to justify a position, however irrational and hysterical.

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Right, first things first. The "higher gun deaths" statistics in the US. I really thought that would be strikingly obvious but then I remembered, many people probably haven't taken the time just to look at a simple list of gun ownership statistics in various countries. So for example when the US has a rate of 90.0 guns per 100 people (apparently upon latest check, although that does seem awfully high) compared to the UK's rate of between 5.0 and 6.0 per 100 people, you can probably understand why they naturally have a far higher rate of gun related deaths.

Think you've summed it pretty nicely there.

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Think you've summed it pretty nicely there.

You're assuming those deaths won't be cause by other weapons were guns to be completely removed from the US.

The US does NOT have a similar culture to the UK, the US does not really even truly have unifying culture and society. The US has a massive influx of unskilled immigrants from all over the world every year who aren't integrated, who aren't entitled to the benefits they receive in the UK, who can't get work and who are isolated into ghetto communities upon arrival.

In particular if you want to take a look at certain black subcultures in the US, where violence, rape, murder, drug dealing, intimidation, theft are all glorified as they are by certiain communities in South Africa.

It may not surprise you to learn that the vast majority of murders in the US take place in very poor, black majority cities. Last time I checked I believe it was around 70-75% of all murders (at least) being commited in these 4 or 5 black majority cities.

Now I'm not attacking black people here at all, I'm attacking subcultures that for a long time have not existed in the UK (they may be appearing now though, time will tell). This is in response to the claim that "we're practically the same as America, without guns".

America has huge problems like any other country, allowing its law abiding citizens to own and carry firearms is NOT one of them.

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You're assuming those deaths won't be cause by other weapons were guns to be completely removed from the US.

The US does NOT have a similar culture to the UK, the US does not really even truly have unifying culture and society. The US has a massive influx of unskilled immigrants from all over the world every year who aren't integrated, who aren't entitled to the benefits they receive in the UK, who can't get work and who are isolated into ghetto communities upon arrival.

In particular if you want to take a look at certain black subcultures in the US, where violence, rape, murder, drug dealing, intimidation, theft are all glorified as they are by certiain communities in South Africa.

It may not surprise you to learn that the vast majority of murders in the US take place in very poor, black majority cities. Last time I checked I believe it was around 70-75% of all murders (at least) being commited in these 4 or 5 black majority cities.

Now I'm not attacking black people here at all, I'm attacking subcultures that for a long time have not existed in the UK (they may be appearing now though, time will tell). This is in response to the claim that "we're practically the same as America, without guns".

America has huge problems like any other country, allowing its law abiding citizens to own and carry firearms is NOT one of them.

People like you concern me a lot more than the prospect of a violent, tyrannical government.

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Yep. I was threatened with a knife around three times before I'd even hit 18 here in Scotland. Here in the UK you need to do whatever they say and pray they don't decide to stab you in a vital organ anyway, assuming you're law abiding or don't happen to be a great fighter who loves to gamble with his life. When I lived in the US someone attempted to rob me twice and carjack me, EVERY time I pulled out my gun and they ran. I was absolutely unharmed, and I got to keep all my valuables that I worked pretty damn hard for.

Popular guy ^^^

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Then is it really justifiable to take someone's life for a less serious violent crime?

It's absolutely justifiable to defend yourself with lethal force if someone's attacking you. That's a biological drive, how can you create a law and throw a man in prison for that?

Never mind, you're right. I'll just pray my attacker has the willpower to stop when he's stomping on my head the next time, so I don't get permanent brain damage or even die. Because it's just a "lesser violent crime" after all. Nothing to worry about, really.

But if a family were robbed (assuming he actually died) of a vicious thug who went around attacking people with who-knows-what intentions.. My God just think of the pain.

Yep, better we just leave it to a thinly spread police force to protect us. I'm sure my attacker will wait patiently while I phone them and 19 minutes until they arrive. And god, not like the authorities ever kill/seriously harm anybody (or get killed) in the name of protecting themselves and others, right.

No, they always peacefully arrest people and everyone lives happily ever after.

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Popular guy ^^^

Indeed. I don't hide in fear and impose a curfew on myself like some choose to.

I go out when I please and where I please, I like to take a walk late at night when its quiet. When you've lived in shitty, shitty areas trust me you get attacked a lot. I find a lot of people so for disarmament laws come from nice cosy neighborhoods where threats of extreme violence aren't a fairly regular occurence if you don't do exactly what certain people tell you.

But hey.. government will get them in the end, right? I've watched TV..

So how do you all feel about offensive weapons laws in general? How do you feel about getting 10 years in prison for possessing a taser, how do you feel about not being able to carry a knife or small club in case you get attacked by a knife wielding thug(s)?

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"The laws of this nature are those which forbid to wear arms, disarming those only who are not disposed to commit the crime which the laws mean to prevent. Can it be supposed, that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, and the most important of the code, will respect the less considerable and arbitrary injunctions, the violation of which is so easy, and of so little comparative importance? Does not the execution of this law deprive the subject of that personal liberty, so dear to mankind and to the wise legislator? and does it not subject the innocent to all the disagreeable circumstances that should only fall on the guilty? It certainly makes the situation of the assaulted worse, and of the assailants better, and rather encourages than prevents murder, as it requires less courage to attack unarmed than armed persons." - Cesare Beccaria


"A comprehensive review of published studies of gun control, released in November 2004 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was unable to determine any statistically significant effect resulting from such laws"

"Economist John Lott, in his 1998 book More Guns, Less Crime, provides data showing that laws allowing law-abiding citizens to carry a gun legally in public may cause reductions in crime because potential criminals do not know who might be carrying a firearm. The data for Lott's analysis came from the FBI's crime statistics for all 3,054 U.S. counties"

"For example, a 2002 review of international gun control policies and gun ownership rates as these relate to crime rates by Kates and Mauser, published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Policy argues that, "International evidence and comparisons have long been offered as proof of the mantra that more guns mean more deaths and that fewer guns, therefore, mean fewer deaths. Unfortunately, such discussions are all too often been [sic] afflicted by misconceptions and factual error and focus on comparisons that are unrepresentative." Kates and Mauser point out in Europe, there is no correlation whatsoever between gun ownership rates and homicide rates (see table "European Gun Ownership and Murder Rates")."



What reason would you have NOT to trust the authorities and the police on this issue, though? They TRULY have your best interests at heart, right. They've proven that time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

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