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3 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Aye, I agree with all that. There's definitely a strong cultural element. I've watched a decent amount of football in countries like Mexico and Italy and there's definitely differences in behaviour. I think it was Craig Levein who said after a game that Juanjo was new to the country and didn't understand that his behaviour wasn't acceptable here.

The same goes for arguing with referees, of course it goes on here but the way the Italians do it just looks pathetic from our point of view. Same with the Spanish, you even see it in their handball team. A sport where you've no time to stop yet some of them are badgering referees while the opposition have got on with it and are about to score.

I think we should count ourselves lucky that the sporting culture here discourages such behaviour, but I think more needs to be done in terms of rule tweaks.

Aye, I think there are some easy fixes.

Only the captain speaks to the ref seems an easy one. Likewise booking a player for simulation even if you've awarded the foul.

And refs could help by enforcing things like dissent. The language footballers use towards the referees is disgraceful and speaks to a complete lack of respect and a cultural acceptance of bell-endish behaviour. That culture could be changed in a month by referees simply using their cards.

Agree with you that it's worse elsewhere. But I don't see why we accept footballers behaving like dicks.

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56 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

I started watching rugby league when I was about 17 and it has had a similar effect on my view of football players. Boys getting shoulders popped back in on the pitch while the game carries on around them etc.

I often wonder how footballers face their friends and families after games where they've rolled about on the floor (often while actually screaming) pretending to be mortally wounded in front of a live tv audience of millions of people. I'd die of shame.

Probably the same way the Rugby boys do after freezing their own spunk and using it as ice cubes.

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15 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Aye, I agree with all that. There's definitely a strong cultural element. I've watched a decent amount of football in countries like Mexico and Italy and there's definitely differences in behaviour. I think it was Craig Levein who said after a game that Juanjo was new to the country and didn't understand that his behaviour wasn't acceptable here.

The same goes for arguing with referees, of course it goes on here but the way the Italians do it just looks pathetic from our point of view. Same with the Spanish, you even see it in their handball team. A sport where you've no time to stop yet some of them are badgering referees while the opposition have got on with it and are about to score.

I think we should count ourselves lucky that the sporting culture here discourages such behaviour, but I think more needs to be done in terms of rule tweaks.

Commentators decrying Johnny Foreigner for waving an imaginary card as the England centre half spits all over the refs face in a seething rage.

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I genuinely don't get why refs aren't tougher on it.

6 players around me screaming in my face? Book them all. Tough if 3 of them already had yellows. They won't do it next week.

Surely, surely, they must see players are at it, constantly at it when falling over either from the slightest contact, or in anticipation of it? Defenders these days are worse than forwards. I just don't understand why refs award those ludicrous non fouls when their own senses have told them from birth that it requires a certain amount of force to throw a 13 stone be-muscled athlete to the floor.

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2 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I genuinely don't get why refs aren't tougher on it.

6 players around me screaming in my face? Book them all. Tough if 3 of them already had yellows. They won't do it next week.

Surely, surely, they must see players are at it, constantly at it when falling over either from the slightest contact, or in anticipation of it? Defenders these days are worse than forwards. I just don't understand why refs award those ludicrous non fouls when their own senses have told them from birth that it requires a certain amount of force to throw a 13 stone be-muscled athlete to the floor.

After a slew of incidents where almost entire teams surrounded the officials, a couple of years ago hockey introduced guidance to umpires that only one player (usually the captain) should be able to approach them to "discuss" a decision. Anyone else who joins in gets a green card (2 min sin bin) straight away.

Oddly, people stopped surrounding the umpires...

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2 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I genuinely don't get why refs aren't tougher on it.

6 players around me screaming in my face? Book them all. Tough if 3 of them already had yellows. They won't do it next week.

Surely, surely, they must see players are at it, constantly at it when falling over either from the slightest contact, or in anticipation of it? Defenders these days are worse than forwards. I just don't understand why refs award those ludicrous non fouls when their own senses have told them from birth that it requires a certain amount of force to throw a 13 stone be-muscled athlete to the floor.

They tried moving free kicks forward an extra ten yards.

Like most of these initiatives in football they begin well at the start of the season and are then binned by December. See handballs for example.

Shirt pulling at corners was another a few years ago.

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44 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

After a slew of incidents where almost entire teams surrounded the officials, a couple of years ago hockey introduced guidance to umpires that only one player (usually the captain) should be able to approach them to "discuss" a decision. Anyone else who joins in gets a green card (2 min sin bin) straight away.

Oddly, people stopped surrounding the umpires...

Aye, stuff like this would be my preference, and the sin bin would be a good way of dealing with it but not removing a player from the entire match.

Lots of football fans hate rugby, but the players in that sport (all cheating b*****ds in their own way) seem to stay out of the refs face - and its not because they are all jolly good lads, its because rugby has devised outcomes that penalise them properly.

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34 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Aye, stuff like this would be my preference, and the sin bin would be a good way of dealing with it but not removing a player from the entire match.

Lots of football fans hate rugby, but the players in that sport (all cheating b*****ds in their own way) seem to stay out of the refs face - and its not because they are all jolly good lads, its because rugby has devised outcomes that penalise them properly.

All sports have cheats, of course. One of the things you see a lot in rugby league is players squirming around on the floor pretending they're being held down too long to stop them releasing the ball in order to get the ref to give them a penalty. Sometimes it works.

But in general rugby has a much better approach to identifying problems and updating the rules. It'll never be perfect, but some of the suggestions we've seen in the last few posts on this thread are really simple ways football could be made better. It's baffling that the authorities never take action.

One thing that's notable in rugby league is that the mic'd-up refs sometimes engage in a bit of chat from players after a decision and give a brief explanation before essentially telling them to shut up and get on with it. And the players generally do. A combination of the presence of the mic and the culture being that you can't badger the ref. These league players are rough boys, it's not that they're naturally more respectful than fitba players. They just operate in an environment where behaving like a p***k isn't rewarded.

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1 hour ago, Merkland Red said:

They tried moving free kicks forward an extra ten yards.

Like most of these initiatives in football they begin well at the start of the season and are then binned by December. See handballs for example.

Shirt pulling at corners was another a few years ago.

Well we keep trying until we find something that works then, because seriously, it's becoming unwatchable for me.

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39 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Well we keep trying until we find something that works then, because seriously, it's becoming unwatchable for me.

You're preaching to the choir.

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I don't think the point is really why they do it. Just that they do and it's very silly. Easy to see how someone not acquainted well with football would see it as ridiculous.
Especially as so many of the things footballers do are clearly learned cultural behaviours they've only seen on a football pitch. For example, why do footballers roll around when in 'pain'? In what other situation do we see people do this?
And it would be possible to change football in a way to not reward these behaviours.
The incident in the Leeds game recently where the boy fell on the floor having been sort of touched in the face sums it up. In a competitive sense the boy did the right thing for his team, but a sport that rewards behaviour like that needs to change something. It's patently ridiculous.
Imagine being that boy and facing your parents after the game? Absolute beamer.

Talking about footballers learned behaviour - why do footballers spit so much? You don’t see any other sportsmen doing it

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5 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

After a slew of incidents where almost entire teams surrounded the officials, a couple of years ago hockey introduced guidance to umpires that only one player (usually the captain) should be able to approach them to "discuss" a decision. Anyone else who joins in gets a green card (2 min sin bin) straight away.

Oddly, people stopped surrounding the umpires...

Basketball too - only the team captain can, politely, ask a referee about a decision, and only when play is stopped. Coaches aren't even allowed to ask.

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3 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Talking about footballers learned behaviour - why do footballers spit so much? You don’t see any other sportsmen doing it

I think spitting like they do is disgusting, but have you ever watched baseball? 

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On 09/02/2021 at 13:16, ahemps said:

Glasgow warriors have a slightly larger average attendance than Edinburgh so it must be as equally popular there.

Football fans who don't like rugby always seem very bitter about it, why is that? They would show no emotion if asked about Ice Hockey or Basketball but get wound up about rugby, very weird.

 

If people aren't following rugby all that much they've maybe missed Warriors growing into Glasgow's 3rd most followed sports team. They sell out Scotstoun ~7,500 (pre-COVID) and are working with the council to plan an extension to ~11,000. Just based on the Glasgow East Stand crowd I don't think it was stereotypical 'posh folk' that were the main drivers of growing the support.

There's a definite reputation from other fans in the Pro League, they notice Glasgow's support is a bit different. You'll often read it's more football like with the noise and more booing of opponents antics than most others! 

Wouldn't expect score updates or reports for Glasgow on Sportsound, but the National Team in the 6nations is totally different.

 

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25 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Have I joined a rugby thread by mistake? What is this pish?

Are you yet to be converted?

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On 09/02/2021 at 09:08, AndyDD said:

Football fans would rather lose or draw playing stylish football than ground out narrow wins playing rather conservatively, says John Collins. 

Would they, aye? Speak for yersel, John.  

 

On 09/02/2021 at 09:29, TheScarf said:

Yeah, let's get relegated playing football 'the right way'.

 

Personally, yeh I'd far rather my team played exciting attacking football than grind out a result.  It's fucking horrific to watch week after week of absolute defensive negative shite.

It's such a bizarre argument though, that if you play football "the right way" it will inevitably end out in relegation, it generally doesn't from my years of watching football. 

 

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7 hours ago, Loonytoons said:

 

 

Personally, yeh I'd far rather my team played exciting attacking football than grind out a result.  It's fucking horrific to watch week after week of absolute defensive negative shite.

It's such a bizarre argument though, that if you play football "the right way" it will inevitably end out in relegation, it generally doesn't from my years of watching football. 

 

I couldn't give a fuck how The Caley play, as long as they win.  If its 2010 Barcelona or 1988 Wimbledon, so be it.

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As an aside, who is John Collins managing at the moment? His style sounds exciting and successful.

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