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Over 60% of non-league clubs had an average attendance last season of 100 or less - make that the starting point.

You can also tie it to the rate of cases per 100k for the past 7 days in each area like Germany have done - if it's over 35 then there's no fans. Going by today's figures, that would allow home fans in Aberdeenshire, Angus, Clackmannanshire, Highland, Moray, Orkney, Perth & Kinross, Shetland, and the Borders.

Edited by Ginaro

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57 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

The government have a responsibility to act in the interests of public health.

Doncaster and club chairmen have a responsibility to act in the financial interests of clubs.

The SPFL want fan's money, like they always do and they couldn't give a shiny shite if fans die after they've paid up.

It's greed, pure and simple.

Most Premiership clubs aren't going to make money from fans being back. Most capacities will be under the number of season tickets sold so very few people entering the stadium will be paying to do so.

And clubs will be taking on the additional cost of stewarding and facilities upkeep. So saying this is about greed is a complete red herring.

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1 hour ago, Saltire said:

too much passion and alcohol involved. 

Aye. Football grounds where you're not allowed alcohol houses uncontrollable drunks who cause chaos, while pubs that are allowed to open all day, and are so large in number that some can easily breach the 10 o'clock guidelines without punishment, are less likely to cause the virus to spread. 

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35 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

There are numbers in between 60,000 and 0 which could be considered. If they don't want thousands of people congregating then they could make it hundreds, or tens.

So if they made it 10 that wouldn't be 'political', Doncaster would be satisfied with that?

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7 minutes ago, rainbowrising said:

So if they made it 10 that wouldn't be 'political', Doncaster would be satisfied with that?

If they made it 10 then it would be more political than 0 because it would be a case of them deliberately being arseholes about it. However, there is a clear middle ground between "thousands of people" in the post that I replied to, and the current situation where absolutely nobody is allowed. Even 100 or 150 would be massive for most non-league clubs in Scotland and is no different to the number of people you might get in some large city centre pubs in Scotland at the moment.

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4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

If they made it 10 then it would be more political than 0 because it would be a case of them deliberately being arseholes about it. However, there is a clear middle ground between "thousands of people" in the post that I replied to, and the current situation where absolutely nobody is allowed. Even 100 or 150 would be massive for most non-league clubs in Scotland and is no different to the number of people you might get in some large city centre pubs in Scotland at the moment.

I am still trying to figure why it is 'political'. They made a decision. Political implies this is a good thing for the Government. It isnt. They feel that is the decision they had to make. All we ever do is debate numbers and if the number doesnt match someone's perception it means the government has some kind of conspiratorial political slant that is deliberately anti-football. 

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17 minutes ago, rainbowrising said:

I am still trying to figure why it is 'political'. They made a decision. Political implies this is a good thing for the Government. It isnt. They feel that is the decision they had to make. All we ever do is debate numbers and if the number doesnt match someone's perception it means the government has some kind of conspiratorial political slant that is deliberately anti-football. 

Politicians making decisions means it is political.

There is no scientific evidence football is riskier than any other venues they have chosen to open.

Leitch said they can't open everything, therefore it is political to choose theatres and pubs over football grounds. hth

 

Just to add that Doncaster has finally came out and said it was the government who forced the postponement of Celtic and Aberdeen fixtures. Political pressure rather than science was followed.

Edited by Jim McLean's Ghost

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1 hour ago, Willie adie said:

I've  always been of the view. That the Scottish government are maybe giving football a grip up after the way football told them to ram strict liability the arrogance, ignorance and total lack of integrity over that I hope has come back to bite thier arse

Football should tell Nicola that they'll accept strict liability if she does. 

I don't see her accepting the deal somehow. 

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1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

There are numbers in between 60,000 and 0 which could be considered. If they don't want thousands of people congregating then they could make it hundreds, or tens.

So how will it cripple clubs if they're not allowed to let in the folk they've already sold tickets to?

It's almost as if there's stricter lockdown measures in place than there was when they had the trials. Along with a portion of the general public taking a mile when given an inch.

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I've been at a few Highland League grounds over the last couple of years and I reckon the most folk that were at any of those matches (all league games on Saturdays) was maybe 300 tops at Buckie and Fraserburgh. Lots of teams get around 100-200 and could fit thousands in their grounds (hypothetically).

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7 minutes ago, resk said:

I've been at a few Highland League grounds over the last couple of years and I reckon the most folk that were at any of those matches (all league games on Saturdays) was maybe 300 tops at Buckie and Fraserburgh. Lots of teams get around 100-200 and could fit thousands in their grounds (hypothetically).

What's to stop fans of the bigger teams going to see the lower league teams if they are allowed to meet folk back in though?

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Just now, Merkland Red said:

What's to stop fans of the bigger teams going to see the lower league teams if they are allowed to meet folk back in though?

They should have to buy a season ticket rather than PATG but in theory nothing.

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Just now, Merkland Red said:

What's to stop fans of the bigger teams going to see the lower league teams if they are allowed to meet folk back in though?

I really can't see a situation where that   would occur with big enough numbers to make it an issue. 

Even if it was they would have a limit like everyone else. 

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Michael Stewart and Willie Miller clash over fan return as pundits debate 'conscious psyche of the nation'

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/michael-stewart-willie-miller-clash-22787028

BBC pundits Michael Stewart and Willie Miller battled in an on-air sparring match after SFA Vice President Mike Mulraney claimed the decision not to allow a football fan return was "political" rather than clinical.

Mulraney had earlier appeared on flagship radio show Sportsound with SPFL chief Neil Doncaster to outline the case for football supporters to return to grounds.

Miller and Stewart were involved in a heated debate as the Aberdeen legend fumed about the inability to continue the work done at test events to provide live matches in a safe environment.

Stewart, who has been vocal in his support for clubs finding a way to provide socially-distanced attendance at games, was keen to present the government's side of the argument as they look to protect the public.

But Miller was adamant that the science has been "overridden" and can't understand why people can visit indoor shopping centres but not stadiums.

Here's how their bust-up played out live.

 

Stewart: "Every decision that a government makes is a political decision and it is always going to be informed by the advice that's given to them.

"I think what Mike (Mulraney) was alluding to there, and I don't want to put words into his mouth, but he views it as a political decision and not solely influenced by the science."

Miller: "It's overridden."

Stewart: "I wouldn't say it's overridden Willie."

Miller: "Well I would!"

Stewart: "Well it's not because..."

Miller: "I'm sorry but I would say it was."

Stewart: "Well where I would disagree with you is the government are going to be taking into account the fans getting to the stadium."

Miller: "We have done that and we have had trials!"

Stewart: "Aye, I know."

Miller: "So we have done that and they have been successful so why can't we continue on?"

Stewart: "Willie, I agree with you but my point is that it's not just a case of people appearing in the stadium and it being all fine, because it's self evident to everybody we can have a good number of supporters in the stadium and it shouldn't be an issue. It's everything that wraps around it that I'm pretty positive is what's concerning the government.

He continued: "It's not purely a political decision, there is going to be science involved in it."

Miller: "What I would want to put to politicians is the shopping centres. Union Square in Aberdeen. How do they get there? By car, public transport and train."

"Thousands go there. So what is the difference? I they tell me the difference they maybe take me with them."

Stewart: "It's a completely valid point. What the problem is is the perception of the wider public. People don't view Union Square as an entity. It's not in the conscious psyche of the nation about Union Square or Princess Square. Whereas football clubs are big iconic entities and people are aware of it."

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Aye. Football grounds where you're not allowed alcohol houses uncontrollable drunks who cause chaos  

To be fair that’s probably what the SNP imagine happens at a game of football.  

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10 minutes ago, Have some faith in Magic said:

I really can't see a situation where that   would occur with big enough numbers to make it an issue. 

Even if it was they would have a limit like everyone else. 

How would that limit or indeed any other restrictions such as ignoring social distancing and gathering together within the crowd be enforced? Is some 70 year old Highland League committee man going to sort them out after the game? People throw out this 'ach it's a few hunner folk let them in and play' line when part of what comes with that level is little oversight or policing of the crowd. There's also common facilities and limited entry/exit points generally speaking to account for.

In reality, the venues that are best equipped to get some fans back in the near future are modern all-seater stadia with more entry/exit points, that are used by professional clubs who already employ stewards to monitor and control fan behaviour on an ongoing basis. But that's not going to happen anytime soon either.

Edited by vikingTON

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What's to stop fans of the bigger teams going to see the lower league teams if they are allowed to meet folk back in though?
They could sell tickets up to a set number. Either advance tickets or a stall outside the turnstile where you give your contact details and hand over your tenner for a ticket. Once the tickets run out, no more folk get in. Even a Highland League club could manage that. Probably.

Or if I'm havering pish (likely), however the non-league clubs in England that are getting crowds in now are doing it.

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5 minutes ago, resk said:

They could sell tickets up to a set number. Either advance tickets or a stall outside the turnstile where you give your contact details and hand over your tenner for a ticket. Once the tickets run out, no more folk get in. Even a Highland League club could manage that. Probably.

Or if I'm havering pish (likely), however the non-league clubs in England that are getting crowds in now are doing it.

I'd doubt that they'd manage to control that tbh.

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I'd doubt that they'd manage to control that tbh.
Fair enough. I'm just not so sure that there's an intrinsic incompetence in the Scottish non-league that means that your average non-league club couldn't run a limited access ticketing system to a ground that's mostly terraces, in the same way that for example the Northern League clubs in England appear to be doing right now (successfully, as far as I can tell from some casual googling).

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