Sportsound Watch

[Guest JTS98]

On 01/06/2020 at 19:21, Public menace said:

Hearts have less of a case than thistle, yet are shouting from the rooftops: it’s is clear that should hearts have been too 6, you woulda heard nothing from budge. No matter what way it is dressed up, it is being drawn up to save hearts.

It depends what you mean by 'less of a case', really. Either it's ok to disregard remaining games in a season or it isn't.

Secondly, the point about how Budge wouldn't be pushing this if Hearts were sixth in the league is irrelevant. If Aberdeen were sitting 12th, they'd be doing what we're doing. If St Mirren were sitting 12th, they'd be looking at it too. So would Hibs.

Any club in our position with the financial resources to afford to credibly threaten legal action would be doing so. People are kidding themselves if they think otherwise. No club who could afford to object to it would just sit back and take relegation on the chin.

Look at the arguments taking place over promotion and relegation down in England, or about whether to play or not play League One's remaining fixtures. Clubs in the relegation zone think there should be no relegation or they should play on, while astonishingly some clubs just outside the relegation zone think the season should be called as is. Teams argue for PPG or weighted PPG based on which one will keep them up instead of relegating them. Astonishingly, none of these clubs are arguing in favour if the version that would relegate them. Well blow me down wiv a fevva.

Or the fuss about why the French season was called and the conspiracy theories around that. Pretty much every club in Europe is acting from a position of self-interest. Including the teams in the Scottish Premiership who voted to end the season and save themselves from a relegation battle.

To somehow highlight Hearts' self-interested approach is just silly. Why would you expect us to act differently to anybody else?

Edited June 5, 2020 by JTS98

[18May1991]

7 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

It depends what you mean by 'less of a case', really. Either it's ok to disregard remaining games in a season or it isn't.

Secondly, the point about how Budge wouldn't be pushing this if Hearts were sixth in the league is irrelevant. If Aberdeen were sitting 12th, they'd be doing what we're doing. If St Mirren were sitting 12th, they'd be looking at it too. So would Hibs.

Any club in our position with the financial resources to afford to credibly threaten legal action would be doing so. People are kidding themselves if they think otherwise. No club who could afford to object to it would just sit back and take relegation on the chin.

Look at the arguments taking place over promotion and relegation down in England, or about whether to play or not play League One's remaining fixtures. Or the fuss about why the French season was called and the conspiracy theories around that. Pretty much every club in Europe is acting from a position of self-interest. To somehow highlight Hearts' self-interested approach is just silly. Why would you expect us to act differently to anybody else?

Other than Partick Thistle you mean? A club that acted with dignity in the same situation instead of squealing like a stuck pig the way Hearts have. 

[Guest JTS98]

14 minutes ago, 18May1991 said:

Other than Partick Thistle you mean? A club that acted with dignity in the same situation instead of squealing like a stuck pig the way Hearts have. 

I think if you read what Thistle said in public they more or less said that they didn't want to commit financially to a legal challenge. That certainly seemed to be the gist of the statement they put out a while back.

I'll ask you a simple question. Do you think Hibs would be acting any differently to Hearts in this situation? Or Motherwell? Or Kilmarnock? Or St Mirren?

I don't.

I'll give you a simple example. A couple of weeks back I saw a brief interview with someone from St Mirren. A board member, possibly the chairman, on the BBC. Gave reason why things had to be moved on, but at no point was the simple point made by the interviewer that for St Mirren this came down to a simple issue. You have a vote and you can vote to continue the season and maybe be relegated, or end the season and definitely stay up. Guess what St Mirren voted for. Anybody would have done the same.

But the same applies to Hearts. Look around the footballing world just now. The idea that Budge is in some way out of step with how all football clubs are behaving is simply untrue.

Amiens and Lyon in France, over 100 non-league clubs in England, League One sides in England, have all threatened legal action about the outcome of their season. I'm sure there are others. Why would you expect the team 12th in the Scottish league to behave differently?

Edited June 5, 2020 by JTS98

[pandarilla]

Other than Partick Thistle you mean? A club that acted with dignity in the same situation instead of squealing like a stuck pig the way Hearts have. 

I pretty much agree with jts98.

You're right that thistle have been dignified but hearts have a bigger profile. What budge is trying to do is what a lot of football fans say they want from their owners /chairpersons - standing up for the club. It's part of her job.

Any time I've heard her i get she comes across as sound and rational - and by f**k you can't argue that's she's determined. She's making sure that if there's any tiny chance of saving the situation then she's going to do it.

I've not heard anything undignified from her (unlike some of the rangers statements over recent years). Now i admit to not following all the updates and statements particularly closely - but there's difference between undignified and determined.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I pretty much agree with jts98.

You're right that thistle have been dignified but hearts have a bigger profile. What budge is trying to do is what a lot of football fans say they want from their owners /chairpersons - standing up for the club. It's part of her job.

Any time I've heard her i get she comes across as sound and rational - and by f**k you can't argue that's she's determined. She's making sure that if there's any tiny chance of saving the situation then she's going to do it.

I've not heard anything undignified from her (unlike some of the rangers statements over recent years). Now i admit to not following all the updates and statements particularly closely - but there's difference between undignified and determined.

What's dignified about getting her pal to offer a bribe to the league and its clubs?

[18May1991]

22 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

What's dignified about getting her pal to offer a bribe to the league and its clubs?

This.

From memory, Thistle released a statement to the effect that they wouldn’t challenge the outcome of the previous vote as it would delay money being paid to clubs, some of whom could possibly have gone to the wall without it. Whether this was the real reason for them not acting is another matter...

Whilst I fully understand Budge is doing all she can to keep Hearts in the Premiership, her behaviour and general toys out the pram  approach has been quite something, culminating in what appears to have been an attempt to bribe clubs for this money. She wasn’t making any noises or complaints about the league set-up before Hearts were bottom and facing relegation, rightly so, for being shite.
 

Would  Motherwell do the same? I don’t know. Possibly. But I would be embarrassed by their actions if I did. 
 

The  long and the short of it is that Hearts deserve to go down. They are dropping down one division FFS, not going out of business. They should just get on with it and focus on sorting themselves out, top to bottom, and gaining promotion. 

[Guest JTS98]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

What's dignified about getting her pal to offer a bribe to the league and its clubs?

 

1 hour ago, 18May1991 said:

Whilst I fully understand Budge is doing all she can to keep Hearts in the Premiership, her behaviour and general toys out the pram  approach has been quite something, culminating in what appears to have been an attempt to bribe clubs for this money.

 

Would  Motherwell do the same? I don’t know. Possibly. But I would be embarrassed by their actions if I did. 
 

The  long and the short of it is that Hearts deserve to go down. They are dropping down one division FFS, not going out of business. They should just get on with it and focus on sorting themselves out, top to bottom, and gaining promotion. 

Budge can't win here.

Either she does nothing and Hearts go down and lose loads of money (cue lots of the top bantz 'successful businesswoman' posts from the St Mirren boys). Or she sticks up for her club and fights it to the end and is perceived as selfish.

Whatever she does, people will slag her off. So I don't see why anyone would expect her or Hearts fans to be too worked up about accusations of selfishness.

And on the topic of the philanthropist. Surely it is a sign of an excellent businesswoman that she's gone out and found someone with cash to strengthen (as she sees it) her business's position while shifting the focus to something that is demonstrably good for everyone. You can call it a bribe if you like, doesn't really matter. But it's certainly miles ahead of what the dinosaurs running other Scottish clubs have managed to do.

The bottom line is that people who don't like Hearts, or whose clubs have gained from the season being called early (hi St Mirren, Accies, County), will slag off whatever Hearts do. But it's hard to imagine any of the other top flight clubs doing anything different, despite their sanctimonious objections.

That's fitba.

Edited June 5, 2020 by JTS98

[Dons_1988]

18 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

 

Budge can't win here.

Either she does nothing and Hearts go down and lose loads of money (cue lots of the top bantz 'successful businesswoman' posts from the St Mirren boys). Or she sticks up for her club and fights it to the end and is perceived as selfish.

Whatever she does, people will slag her off. So I don't see why anyone would expect her or Hearts fans to be too worked up about accusations of selfishness.

And on the topic of the philanthropist. Surely it is a sign of an excellent businesswoman that she's gone out and found someone with cash to strengthen (as she sees it) her business's position while shifting the focus to something that is demonstrably good for everyone. You can call it a bribe if you like, doesn't really matter. But it's certainly miles ahead of what the dinosaurs running other Scottish clubs have managed to do.

The bottom line is that people who don't like Hearts, or whose clubs have gained from the season being called early (hi St Mirren, Accies, County), will slag off whatever Hearts do. But it's hard to imagine any of the other top flight clubs doing anything different, despite their sanctimonious objections.

That's fitba.

I agree tbf. A lot of stuff on here is partisan nonsense, as you'd expect.

I sympathise quite a bit with Hearts position and don't have any particular qualms with them fighting their corner. I do however think the legal route is too far (I'm also not sure what the grounds are) and that at some point soon we need to move on.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

This.
From memory, Thistle released a statement to the effect that they wouldn’t challenge the outcome of the previous vote as it would delay money being paid to clubs, some of whom could possibly have gone to the wall without it. Whether this was the real reason for them not acting is another matter...

Thistle will have known that if there’s a legal fight to be fought they can leave it to Hearts to actually pursue it and still benefit if it’s successful without spending extra money or goodwill

[Sergeant Wilson]

25 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

 

Budge can't win here.

Either she does nothing and Hearts go down and lose loads of money (cue lots of the top bantz 'successful businesswoman' posts from the St Mirren boys). Or she sticks up for her club and fights it to the end and is perceived as selfish.

Whatever she does, people will slag her off. So I don't see why anyone would expect her or Hearts fans to be too worked up about accusations of selfishness.

And on the topic of the philanthropist. Surely it is a sign of an excellent businesswoman that she's gone out and found someone with cash to strengthen (as she sees it) her business's position while shifting the focus to something that is demonstrably good for everyone. You can call it a bribe if you like, doesn't really matter. But it's certainly miles ahead of what the dinosaurs running other Scottish clubs have managed to do.

The bottom line is that people who don't like Hearts, or whose clubs have gained from the season being called early (hi St Mirren, Accies, County), will slag off whatever Hearts do. But it's hard to imagine any of the other top flight clubs doing anything different, despite their sanctimonious objections.

That's fitba.

She's a moral vacuum within the Scottish football black hole.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

She's a moral vacuum within the Scottish football black hole.

You mean everyone else is incredibly dense?

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

You mean everyone else is incredibly dense?

 

And fortunately for me, far away.

[Green Day]

31 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Surely it is a sign of an excellent businesswoman that she's gone out and found someone with cash to strengthen (as she sees it) her business's position while shifting the focus to something that is demonstrably good for everyone. You can call it a bribe if you like, doesn't really matter. But it's certainly miles ahead of what the dinosaurs running other Scottish clubs have managed to do.

I was under the impression that she was approached by Anderson?

In fact I think Ann Budge herself has said in the past that Benny - as a Hearts supporter, albeit one with lots of money - wanted two things;

(a) Save the Children sponsorship on the jerseys, combining money to the club and the charity - win/win

(b) To pump some money into his favourite football club to do with as they see fit.

That he is a Hearts fan is as much a matter of luck as the Euromillions guy being a Partick fan, I doubt that he would have been pumping this cash into Hearts if he was simply a successful investment manager who really liked cricket.

As to the final bit, I agree entirely - Ann Budges running of Hearts has been excellent and - speaking for myself, long may it continue.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

51 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

And fortunately for me, far away.

It was either that or you found Neil Doncaster irresistibly attractive

[Sergeant Wilson]

7 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

It was either that or you found Neil Doncaster irresistibly attractive

Don't make me choose between them.

[JamesM82]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

I agree tbf. A lot of stuff on here is partisan nonsense, as you'd expect.

I sympathise quite a bit with Hearts position and don't have any particular qualms with them fighting their corner. I do however think the legal route is too far (I'm also not sure what the grounds are) and that at some point soon we need to move on.

This. It's not the end of the world for Hearts to be relegated, as long as there is a Championship to be played next season. That may require some outside funding (hence the Anderson funding) and/or some rejigging of the lower leagues, i.e. if teams in the Championship drop out, then others might be invited in to replace them. But as long as it can go ahead in some form it shouldn't hinder Hearts that much.

[DA Baracus]

The Anderson funding, if it happens, won't come close to helping clubs meet the costs of playing in empty stadiums.

Not sure why anyone thinks it will.

[wastecoatwilly]

28 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

This. It's not the end of the world for Hearts to be relegated, as long as there is a Championship to be played next season. That may require some outside funding (hence the Anderson funding) and/or some rejigging of the lower leagues, i.e. if teams in the Championship drop out, then others might be invited in to replace them. But as long as it can go ahead in some form it shouldn't hinder Hearts that much.

Your post is all about hearts but my original question was in a sporting context the jags had more sympathy.
It's been answer by a few posts on here that there is no sympathy in Scottish football so get doon.
For the jags it's a different story they find themselves in a lower league where it's very possible part-time is the answer.
Plus if clubs hibernate in that league no football is the answer, i'm pretty sure that will have a devastating effect on the jags. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by wastecoatwilly

[JamesM82]

4 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Your post is all about hearts but my original question was in a sporting context the jags had more sympathy.
It's been answer by a few posts on here that there is no sympathy in Scottish football so get doon.
For the jags it's a different story they find themselves in a lower league where it's very possible part-time is the answer.
Plus if clubs hibernate in that league no football is the answer, i'm pretty sure that will have a devastating effect on the jags. 

I think that's what I was hinting at by "rejigging of the lower leagues". Championship could effectively become a league for whatever clubs are able to start up in the autumn. If there's more than 10 clubs who want to be involved, bring them in too.

[Guest JTS98]

33 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

This. It's not the end of the world for Hearts to be relegated, as long as there is a Championship to be played next season. That may require some outside funding (hence the Anderson funding) and/or some rejigging of the lower leagues, i.e. if teams in the Championship drop out, then others might be invited in to replace them. But as long as it can go ahead in some form it shouldn't hinder Hearts that much.

This is what I was talking about before. If you don't like Hearts, then you can talk yourself into thinking the kind of thing expressed in this post. I've got no doubt some Hearts fans would be posting similar nonsense if the roles were reversed.

Can you imagine a Hibs supporter if Hibs were in this situation saying 'Ach, it's not that big a deal, really'.

Not a chance.